BlazeN8's 1986 4Runner Build-Up Thread
03-06-2013, 11:09 AM
#241
Registered User
Thread Starter
Toyo,
When you use the factory bump and droop stops either BJ used shouldn't be an issue. This is a metal to metal measurement representing the theoretical maximum. But, I checked my records and it looks like your LCAs are recorded as 051-89. This means your the 51st kit and this kit is a 2nd Gen (1989-1995) I would verify that visually with the photos I posted and by looking at what is on your rig. It is unusual that I would sell second Gen UCA/LCAs to someone with a 1988 rig without approval from the buyer. It was back in May 2012 that we went over this so I cant' remember the details.
On the positive side maybe you lucked out and because you have the newer control arms you can use the newer lower BJs.
Since you work at Toyota as a mechanic, get your employee discount and swap out the BJs on your lunch break or something? If you have time take a Torsion Bar out of the equation, remove the bump and droop stops and cycle one side. Take before and after measurements and see if you get results like I did. Check the CVs and then the outer tie rod ends then set your bump and droop stops accordingly.
In my case it may be different as I have the drop bracket kit that affect things as well? Also remember in my case I have the CMdiff that allows the extra range and doesn't compromise the CV.
Next week I am going to borrow Mantruck's 1988 rig and do some testing with the lower BJ on a rig with 1986-1988 control arms. He has some aftermarket BJs he wants replaced that show some contact on the LCA BJ drop with the attachment bolts at full droop.
When you use the factory bump and droop stops either BJ used shouldn't be an issue. This is a metal to metal measurement representing the theoretical maximum. But, I checked my records and it looks like your LCAs are recorded as 051-89. This means your the 51st kit and this kit is a 2nd Gen (1989-1995) I would verify that visually with the photos I posted and by looking at what is on your rig. It is unusual that I would sell second Gen UCA/LCAs to someone with a 1988 rig without approval from the buyer. It was back in May 2012 that we went over this so I cant' remember the details.
On the positive side maybe you lucked out and because you have the newer control arms you can use the newer lower BJs.
Since you work at Toyota as a mechanic, get your employee discount and swap out the BJs on your lunch break or something? If you have time take a Torsion Bar out of the equation, remove the bump and droop stops and cycle one side. Take before and after measurements and see if you get results like I did. Check the CVs and then the outer tie rod ends then set your bump and droop stops accordingly.
In my case it may be different as I have the drop bracket kit that affect things as well? Also remember in my case I have the CMdiff that allows the extra range and doesn't compromise the CV.
Next week I am going to borrow Mantruck's 1988 rig and do some testing with the lower BJ on a rig with 1986-1988 control arms. He has some aftermarket BJs he wants replaced that show some contact on the LCA BJ drop with the attachment bolts at full droop.
03-06-2013, 03:19 PM
#242
Registered User
Thread Starter
Update! I went through BJs and LCAs and evaluated as componants vs. as a system on the vehicle.
For the BJs: The 89-95 offset moves the pivot location 3/8" down. Both 86-88 and 89-95 BJs show a working angle of 46 degrees, 23 degrees each direction.
For the LCAs: The 89-95 drop hook is 3/8" lower. The angle doesn't change.
In conclusion, keep the BJ series matched to LCA series! If you were to mix a 1989-95 LCA to a 86-88 BJ you will see clearance issues and loss of travel. The inverse, a 1986-88 LCA with a 1989-95 BJ, I don't forsee clearance issues; I don't suspect any advantage to miss match but untill I cycle the suspension on the truck I won't know for sure?
So Toyo in your situation I would recommend getting the 89-95 BJs to go with your 89-95 LCAs.
For the BJs: The 89-95 offset moves the pivot location 3/8" down. Both 86-88 and 89-95 BJs show a working angle of 46 degrees, 23 degrees each direction.
For the LCAs: The 89-95 drop hook is 3/8" lower. The angle doesn't change.
In conclusion, keep the BJ series matched to LCA series! If you were to mix a 1989-95 LCA to a 86-88 BJ you will see clearance issues and loss of travel. The inverse, a 1986-88 LCA with a 1989-95 BJ, I don't forsee clearance issues; I don't suspect any advantage to miss match but untill I cycle the suspension on the truck I won't know for sure?
So Toyo in your situation I would recommend getting the 89-95 BJs to go with your 89-95 LCAs.
Last edited by BlazeN8; 03-06-2013 at 03:21 PM.
03-06-2013, 04:32 PM
#243
Update! I went through BJs and LCAs and evaluated as componants vs. as a system on the vehicle.
For the BJs: The 89-95 offset moves the pivot location 3/8" down. Both 86-88 and 89-95 BJs show a working angle of 46 degrees, 23 degrees each direction.
For the LCAs: The 89-95 drop hook is 3/8" lower. The angle doesn't change.
In conclusion, keep the BJ series matched to LCA series! If you were to mix a 1989-95 LCA to a 86-88 BJ you will see clearance issues and loss of travel. The inverse, a 1986-88 LCA with a 1989-95 BJ, I don't forsee clearance issues; I don't suspect any advantage to miss match but untill I cycle the suspension on the truck I won't know for sure?
So Toyo in your situation I would recommend getting the 89-95 BJs to go with your 89-95 LCAs.
For the BJs: The 89-95 offset moves the pivot location 3/8" down. Both 86-88 and 89-95 BJs show a working angle of 46 degrees, 23 degrees each direction.
For the LCAs: The 89-95 drop hook is 3/8" lower. The angle doesn't change.
In conclusion, keep the BJ series matched to LCA series! If you were to mix a 1989-95 LCA to a 86-88 BJ you will see clearance issues and loss of travel. The inverse, a 1986-88 LCA with a 1989-95 BJ, I don't forsee clearance issues; I don't suspect any advantage to miss match but untill I cycle the suspension on the truck I won't know for sure?
So Toyo in your situation I would recommend getting the 89-95 BJs to go with your 89-95 LCAs.
04-13-2013, 11:07 PM
#244
my lower BJ dont hit at full droop or compression. i know my shocks still has some travel left before full stuffed but it doesnt seem like it wants to go any more, maybe it wasnt steep enough. i know before i changed to OME t-bars it stuffed more than this, at least another .6 inch
04-14-2013, 04:57 PM
#246
Registered User
Thread Starter
Toyo,
That's interesting that your wanting my rear set up! I'm about to upgrade and the old is soon to be available. If you read back in my build thread you will see progression as the rig evolved and got more lift. The first entry involved the stock 5mm main leaf and associated leafs with the overload removed and a Deaver Mini-pack installed. I then went with longer shackles. This was a nice set up but the shock mounts didn't support the travel. Later you will read about the shock hoops into the wheel well. Anyway, you can re-read all about it.
As a recap of what is currently under the rear its Skyjacker 4" lift leaf springs, Superlift 1-1/2" block kit, and 8" shackles. The 14" travel shocks are mounted on modified spring plates down low and the upper mounts are custom towers out board on the frame up into the wheel tub.
The problem with this set up is there is too much wheel hop for crawing in low range and it bounces. As the rear end dances around with the axle wrap and wheel hop it damages the leaf pack. I also am allowing too much negative arch as I don't have enough shim in the bump stops. The passenger side is now sagging.
I still have the Deaver springs and I just got the All Pro 6" Extreme travel kit (minus shocks and u-bolt flip kit as I am using my 14" shock setup) Anyway, this kit involves cutting off the old brackets and relocating the new ones. Its a project I will take on in a few weeks and I'll do a write up to this build thread.
Meanwhile I took a photo of the Dever mini-pack springs I got out of storage and put them next to the All-Pro's. Quite a difference! For me I am wanting 6" of lift, but for you your probably only wanting three. For three the Deaver mini-pack and 5" shackle worked well. You could also try the rear shock towers to get the stroke dialed in. Hit me up off line if you want to work a deal for my old springs.
URL=http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/Big8n8/media/leafs_zps27d0bfb8.jpg.html]
[/URL]
That's interesting that your wanting my rear set up! I'm about to upgrade and the old is soon to be available. If you read back in my build thread you will see progression as the rig evolved and got more lift. The first entry involved the stock 5mm main leaf and associated leafs with the overload removed and a Deaver Mini-pack installed. I then went with longer shackles. This was a nice set up but the shock mounts didn't support the travel. Later you will read about the shock hoops into the wheel well. Anyway, you can re-read all about it.
As a recap of what is currently under the rear its Skyjacker 4" lift leaf springs, Superlift 1-1/2" block kit, and 8" shackles. The 14" travel shocks are mounted on modified spring plates down low and the upper mounts are custom towers out board on the frame up into the wheel tub.
The problem with this set up is there is too much wheel hop for crawing in low range and it bounces. As the rear end dances around with the axle wrap and wheel hop it damages the leaf pack. I also am allowing too much negative arch as I don't have enough shim in the bump stops. The passenger side is now sagging.
I still have the Deaver springs and I just got the All Pro 6" Extreme travel kit (minus shocks and u-bolt flip kit as I am using my 14" shock setup) Anyway, this kit involves cutting off the old brackets and relocating the new ones. Its a project I will take on in a few weeks and I'll do a write up to this build thread.
Meanwhile I took a photo of the Dever mini-pack springs I got out of storage and put them next to the All-Pro's. Quite a difference! For me I am wanting 6" of lift, but for you your probably only wanting three. For three the Deaver mini-pack and 5" shackle worked well. You could also try the rear shock towers to get the stroke dialed in. Hit me up off line if you want to work a deal for my old springs.
URL=http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/Big8n8/media/leafs_zps27d0bfb8.jpg.html]
[/URL]
04-14-2013, 05:37 PM
#247
Registered User
Thread Starter
In other recent events resulting from TDS abuse, I ripped up the stock motor mounts. It could be the low range torque loads or it could be the rubber is 27 years old and has dry rot to failure! Anyway as a remedy I thought it would be a good time to convert to TG "Bullet Proof" poly units.
Big mistake! The noise and vibration is horrible. It vibrates so bad it rattles ones teeth. Its so loud the stereo cannot drown it out cranked to eleven. Its so loud I can no longer hear the pleasing note of my Flowmaster muffler.
I gave TG a call to see if this was unusual. The sales guy on the phone was a bit defensive right off the bat to even talk to me about it. I had to ask for a manager. The manager referred me to a seasoned tech representative who ended up being really helpful and cool. But he did reminded me TG products are for off road application and not the street. He also reminded me of the disclaimer on the motor mount info page.
I get this poly mount application is for a serious crawler or rock buggy but I never would have though it to be that noisy with so much vibration! My Fordota has solid mounts and its not bad at all?
It seems to me this isn't the first time customers got a surprise after installing. Anyway, nothing to be done as the product had been installed! I think its odd that the "no questions asked guarantee" doesn't apply because of the disclaimer about noise and vibration and because I am using for a street application........but what ever! Its only $100 and I'll find some one who may want them. Any takers?
FYI- Auto Zone carries the Duralast stock rubber replacement units for $31 each. Stinks I need to the job twice.
Here is a photo of the first time I did the job. The stock ripped unit vrs the new poly unit
Big mistake! The noise and vibration is horrible. It vibrates so bad it rattles ones teeth. Its so loud the stereo cannot drown it out cranked to eleven. Its so loud I can no longer hear the pleasing note of my Flowmaster muffler.
I gave TG a call to see if this was unusual. The sales guy on the phone was a bit defensive right off the bat to even talk to me about it. I had to ask for a manager. The manager referred me to a seasoned tech representative who ended up being really helpful and cool. But he did reminded me TG products are for off road application and not the street. He also reminded me of the disclaimer on the motor mount info page.
I get this poly mount application is for a serious crawler or rock buggy but I never would have though it to be that noisy with so much vibration! My Fordota has solid mounts and its not bad at all?
It seems to me this isn't the first time customers got a surprise after installing. Anyway, nothing to be done as the product had been installed! I think its odd that the "no questions asked guarantee" doesn't apply because of the disclaimer about noise and vibration and because I am using for a street application........but what ever! Its only $100 and I'll find some one who may want them. Any takers?
FYI- Auto Zone carries the Duralast stock rubber replacement units for $31 each. Stinks I need to the job twice.
Here is a photo of the first time I did the job. The stock ripped unit vrs the new poly unit
04-14-2013, 06:09 PM
#249
Registered User
It may be a difference in motors. I have them in my 3.4 swapped Runner and they're not bad. When I had them in my 83 pickup, the vibrations transmitted were much worse. I had the bomb proof transfer case mount, too, but even when I removed that to keep when I sold it, the vibrations were still just as bad. Also talking about 3 different body styles between yours and both of mine, so who knows. Putting them in my Runner they fit like crap, though!
04-14-2013, 06:20 PM
#250
Cool. Ill have to hit u up about the rear springs. Do they mount to stock location? I want to be able to stuff just to the fender and droop with the top part of tire below the frame. I need more rear flex. Ill be at pismo this coming weekend.
I too have noticed a little axle wrap when I'm in 4low as well but only when I hold the brakes. I think this has to do with my rear brakes are not holding the extra torque of the lower gear.
Did you look at my pictures of the lower 88 bj with your 89-95 lower long arms? I was curious to see if try really did rub but I didn't get any. Also I don't see any wear marks on the lower arm where it could rub
I have heard tons if bad reviews on tg tranny mount. I replaced mine with OEM and was still 90+$ with my discount.
I too have noticed a little axle wrap when I'm in 4low as well but only when I hold the brakes. I think this has to do with my rear brakes are not holding the extra torque of the lower gear.
Did you look at my pictures of the lower 88 bj with your 89-95 lower long arms? I was curious to see if try really did rub but I didn't get any. Also I don't see any wear marks on the lower arm where it could rub
I have heard tons if bad reviews on tg tranny mount. I replaced mine with OEM and was still 90+$ with my discount.
04-15-2013, 09:45 AM
#251
Registered User
Thread Starter
I'm not knocking the design of the motor mounts, its just I used them in for a streetable rig when they are for a non-streetable application. TG does explain this so my bad for going against their advice.
Toyo,
I looked at your photos (above) and unless you are at full droop with wheels turned to the left or right your ok. If your not seeing scuff marks in the paint your probably ok too. Are you using the factory droop stops or low profile? Also is it possible your shock is acting like a limit strap.
My Deaver built springs are actual stock 4Runner springs but improved, so they will bolt into the factory hangers. The difference between the truck and 4 Runner is the main leaf of a truck is 4mm thick and the 4Runner is 5mm thick.
Toyo,
I looked at your photos (above) and unless you are at full droop with wheels turned to the left or right your ok. If your not seeing scuff marks in the paint your probably ok too. Are you using the factory droop stops or low profile? Also is it possible your shock is acting like a limit strap.
My Deaver built springs are actual stock 4Runner springs but improved, so they will bolt into the factory hangers. The difference between the truck and 4 Runner is the main leaf of a truck is 4mm thick and the 4Runner is 5mm thick.
Last edited by BlazeN8; 04-15-2013 at 08:14 PM.
04-15-2013, 11:41 AM
#252
I will be replacing my bj soons and like to get the correct ones. I didn't turn the wheels to see if it would it. Stock droop stops. I can't run low pro droop stops because the upper arm is mm away from hitting the shock body. My cv can handle more droop but the issue with shock and upper arm kissing if it droop any more
So they are Deaver springs modified or stock springs mod?.
So they are Deaver springs modified or stock springs mod?.
05-31-2013, 09:08 PM
#254
Registered User
Thread Starter
Well, I sold the Deaver Mini-Pack modified springs to a local guy named Matt who has a 1st Gen 4 Runner with a used Blazeland LT. He is possibly the third owner of this kit! It came off Craig B's rolled rig and before that it was on Garret's truck.
Matt came by the house and we did the spring install. The leaf springs we pulled off were aftermarket lift springs (possibly Downey) that didn't give much lift at all. When the instal was finished the mini-pack and longer shackle only netted about an inch of lift.
Also during our session I installed a set of shock hoops. I welded some tabs on the LCAs and the rear hoop bracket to the frame. As part of our agreement I ended up with his ARB bumper as he was getting a custom pre-runner bumper made.
I cleaned up the bumper today and was getting ready to install it when I ran across a sticker on the inside that list this bumper as 1989-1997 application. The fit of the bumper seemed a little off as the bumper protruded further back into the wheel well than the fender did. Also there was a second set of mounting brackets that tied into the 1989+ frame support for the body mount in a way that is missing on the 1st Gen.
I am wondering if anyone knows if this bumper is universal between 1986-1988 and 1989-1997? The ARB website reads as if it is, but I am second guessing that. If its being used for winching it really seems like it needs the more support.
Matt came by the house and we did the spring install. The leaf springs we pulled off were aftermarket lift springs (possibly Downey) that didn't give much lift at all. When the instal was finished the mini-pack and longer shackle only netted about an inch of lift.
Also during our session I installed a set of shock hoops. I welded some tabs on the LCAs and the rear hoop bracket to the frame. As part of our agreement I ended up with his ARB bumper as he was getting a custom pre-runner bumper made.
I cleaned up the bumper today and was getting ready to install it when I ran across a sticker on the inside that list this bumper as 1989-1997 application. The fit of the bumper seemed a little off as the bumper protruded further back into the wheel well than the fender did. Also there was a second set of mounting brackets that tied into the 1989+ frame support for the body mount in a way that is missing on the 1st Gen.
I am wondering if anyone knows if this bumper is universal between 1986-1988 and 1989-1997? The ARB website reads as if it is, but I am second guessing that. If its being used for winching it really seems like it needs the more support.
05-31-2013, 09:45 PM
#255
That is the same sticker that is on my bumper. You should be good to go. The bumper does stick past the fender. I guess arb never accounted for LT and 2 inch bs rims. Lucky I had a local guy cut mind down and welded a new piece of metal to make it look like it was before.
Last edited by ToyoTech559; 06-03-2013 at 07:41 PM.
06-01-2013, 05:59 AM
#257
Registered User
I would say try and use the bumper, ive never been lucky enough to come acrost a arb bumper so i dont have much input on fitment to your rig and the bumper being a 89-97 but actually 89 had 1st gen runners as well like mine. I say if it bolts up to your likings run it!!
By the way lots of great info on your thread!!
By the way lots of great info on your thread!!
