junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Cory, thanks for the offer on the booster i'll keep that in mind.

I can't wait myself to see if that R152a will perform like all the chatting is on it. I'm just waiting on the Can Tap and looking for the cans of R152a dusters that everyone seems to use out of Wallyworld. i visited the one by me and they only had Dust-off, didn't buy it since I wasn't sure on the specs if and how much R152a was in a can.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

By the way if you don't know already in 2017 they are trying to implement a new refrigerant to replace R134a. I have a thread wondering if anybody has made the change from R134a already. R134a was suppose to be the product that is least harmful to the ozone with the least ODP of 0, but now they are worried about the GWP rating R134a has which 1300. A new standard is the GWP level should be below 150. R152a has a ODP of 0 and a GWP of 120. Although they are considering R744 which has a ODP of 0 and GWP of 1. They don't state that R134a is being phased out, but they do state that that a heavier tax would be implemented to stop frivolous usage such as you have a leak and need to refill with R134a every 3 months. By imposing a higher tax people will think about fixing it first. As it stands now a can of R134a 12oz is already about 14.99 - 19.99 from the 8.99 can. What will it be in the year 2017?

Here's a link to the thread https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/c-choices-substitute-r12-cfc-12-a-272470/

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Getting closer to installing the test run of R152a in my truck, the only thing holding me back is the CAN TAP.


So just to go over it all some of the thing needed to install it are as follows:

1) Can Tap
2) Gauges (rent from autozone?)


3) Vacuum Pump (rent from Autozone?)

4) Ester oil

5)R152a (can be purchased almost anywhere cheap)

these are the 2 I have review as containing R152a by reviewing the MSDS safety page. Once I install the R152a in my system, I will post my trial and errors, the only thing pending is the Can Tap, they told me it would be in my hands around Friday. The can tap hasn't even shipped yet. It maybe until next week before i can even started.

Outsane

this i getting real..

what pressures are you going to fill to?

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

My understanding is they should be close to the same as the Factory R12 settings, but the amount of refrigerant is different. R12 has a molecular weight of 120 and R152a has a molecular weight of 68 going by the charts, thus 68/120=.57. The FSM states to charge the unit with freon R12 1.3 - 1.7lbs. (this gives us 20.8/.57=11.85oz and 27.2/.57=15.5oz). If I'm right, the amount of charge should be between 11.85oz - 15.5oz. the average duster can is about 10oz so about 1 1/2 cans.

The pressures based on the FSM for R12 is 21-28 PSI on the Low side and 206-213 PSI on the high side, but so far that I know of it would be slightly lower than this, so I am trying to pay more attention to the weights right now than the actual pressure.

All of this is based on what I have read around the web and people that have actually done it in their cars. Please if any one can tell me otherwise please do so, I am still awaiting the delivery of my can tap that is already late in delivery as it is, ETA is Tuesday sometime when it should have been here today.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I dont have any info on ac, I still havent been able to fit it into my budget, but it is in the budget for next year somehow. Past two summers have been miserable. I tried using a mouse pad for a foam replacement on the vent assembly and think it will work out if needed. I posted it on my 86 build.

Seen you mention the rude people. I try to be easy going and forgiving, but every now and then their are some that just want to push your buttons. If you can make them your source of entertainment and keep a cool head about you, it is actually kind of fun dealing with those rude people. They are generally so stressed out, it doesnt take much to get them upset instead of you being upset. Once they find out they arent getting you upset, it takes away their goal of what they are trying to do.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Terry, I reused pretty much everything for my AC that was in the truck, I tested out what ever i could test such as the pressure switch, expansion valve, etc... I had to replace the Resistor Coil as explained before the original one was toast. i'm going to post what I did on here shortly and on the posting of which refrigerant I should use over on the tech forum here:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...c-12-a-272470/

Just so you know a can of the refrigerant I used cost me $4 actually $7.97 for 2 cans plus tax.

As for those rude people, I know that all people aren't rude, but this city has its issue because of the type of people they are. My son was literally freaking out about how these people were, i just told him that this is not a city, its a third world country. He laughed and we started joking about these people of how they just jump in front of your car not walk, but jump not because they want to your insurance money it's because they better than you and can do what ever they want. plus they don't speak to you in English. Even so, it is a big city and some what industrial.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

I know some of you here are interest in what i am charging my AC with which I have said numerous times i was going to use R152a. I received my can tap a lot earlier than what was said to be the ETA by USPS.com so I am very happy with that.

Today i had sometime to start working on the A/C. First thing I worked on was the Blower Resistor.

You have to be a contortionist to reach under these dashes to actually work down there. Here's a shot of what came out.

The old resistor:


Here's a picture of what was going in the new:



When installing the resistor you want to keep your fingers off the filament wire. I found out many years ago that the oil from your fingers or anything can cause these things to heat up more and shorten its life spans. Most older projectors were like that with those old bulbs and even those halogen bulbs you want to keep your fingers off or any greasy stuff from touching it.

Installed and ready for action:

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

I got the Ester oil and the can tap here to show you exactly what i am using:



Took the compressor out and glad to hear the vacuum still in there after more than 5 days after I vacuumed it out. Took off the compressor because I needed to add the Ester Oil and purchased the bottle instead of the compressed can of oil. I figured I would do it this way as it better to pre-lubricate prior to starting up the compressor and a better to keep vacuum for the refrigerant rather than the oil. Once I filled the compressor up with about 3 to 4 oz of oil I mounted the compressor back up re-sealed the hoses and vacuumed again. Once I was set with the vacuum I setup a can of the DustOff (my R152a) with the can tap.




You want to slowly release it, i know some people are anxious to fill there AC's, but it works better this way. I started charging the AC with car off allowing only the vacuum to suck out the R152a from the can. Once that stopped I started the truck and turned on the AC full blast and rev the truck to about 2000 + RPM, this drew more of the refrigerant from the can. Once it was empty, I closed the gauges and took off the empty can and attached another duster can. I figured I lost a bit with the R152a being in the lines when I removed or replaced the can. Took another 2/3 or more of the second can and the compressor clutch was running. Went inside the truck and found it started cooling, but not as cool as I wanted it to be.

Once it was charged, I got in the truck and drove it around the block a few times and it did get cold a very comfortable cool. I drove over to my neighbors house to show him and he hopped into the truck and said it was cooling very good. He had handy his temperature gun so we start shooting the vents to see how cool it was getting.

Here's the temperature at the vent:



i have to say I am pretty happy with my choice of refrigerant so far. The only issue I have which seems to be common for some is the idle temperature. Seems like when we stop at a light or just idle the AC stops cooling. I am going to be checking the VSV (complements of chefyotas work on his thread), re-check the refrigerant levels, Booster and the cooling fan. on the cooling fan, I remember originally when i first purchased my 86 4runner it had a foam packing on the top and bottom between the radiator and condenser, I'm going to have to buy some of that same foam packing to put in there. I believe to some degree that's to keep the flow of the air running through the condenser straight through the radiator where the fan is drawing. If the foam is not there, the flow of the air would reduce through the condenser and more sucked through the gap between the two, That means the same amount of air flows through the radiator, but less through the condenser. Will try and show a picture of the area I am talking about tomorrow.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

I forgot to mention the two cans of DustOff I purchased as a pair for a sub-total of $7.97. That's roughly $4.00 a 10oz can. Today a can of R134 will cost you about the cheapest I see is $14.99 for one 12oz can and you have to buy 2 of them that's roughly $30 for the 2. I wasn't sure of how much I needed so I decided to pickup (2) 2packs Dustoff for a total of $16.90. Heck of deal that is. If this really works out I'm thinking of getting this stuff by the bulk just to have around before they start taxing it like they are planing increase taxing R134 even as high price as it is now.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

My neighbor just reminded me at several times the temperature reading dropped down to 28 degrees, I find that hard to believe as it dropped down to that point several times. Just for the few minutes we sat in the truck checking the temperature at the vent we decided to take the temperature in the back seating area. that reading came to 68-71 degrees. Not to shabby, but I still have some tweaking to work on it as I mentioned before at idle doesn't seem to cool very well.

Again I think this maybe a better refrigerant than R134, our trucks have a smaller condenser than the newer cars that can cool down the refrigerant better than our smaller condensers. R12 cooled about the same as this stuff does and this is way cheaper. I'm hoping to get more results as I look for the resolution to the idle issue with and without the AC

Red Wagon

Sorry for coming in late but is this an A/C retrofit or a recharge?

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Hi Red Wagon, Thanks for chiming in. To answer your question as best as I can, this to me is a recharge. No retrofitting was done. Basically it was cleaning out the AC system internally then adding ester oil and replacing o-rings and then charging with a refrigerant. No new stem, no changing the condenser, just cleaning out the system and charging with R152a.

I believe that the only reason R134 became a retrofit is EPA or whomever wanted to provide a safety measure so that these gases would not be mixed or contaminated with any other refrigerant. Note that the R134 kit includes a different low and high stems for the compressor, thus indicating a change in refrigerant and not allowing any other fitting than those available for that specific one. I heard EPA hated these can taps even though the R134 cans had a different tops these can taps allowed the user to fill R12 units with R134 without adding the newer stems note both r12 and r134 fittings on the can tap I have, but the law requires when you do make any changes to the refrigerant in your vehicle that a sticker must be provided that includes that information for the safety of the mechanic and shop.

Red Wagon

Oh nice.

I was asking because my 4Runner doesn't have air conditioning but I'd really like to have it.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Looks like some cold ac you have now, great job. I never thought of getting the heater coil new and was suprised to see what a difference between old and new looked like. I always grabbed one off of one of the parts I had in the shed. How much is that resistor if you dont mind. Probably wouldnt hurt to just replace it with a new one.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Wagon

Oh nice.

I was asking because my 4Runner doesn't have air conditioning but I'd really like to have it.

Thanks Red Wagon, it does cool pretty good. It's pretty quiet too, don't know if that;s a good thing or a bad thing just yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrys87

Looks like some cold ac you have now, great job. I never thought of getting the heater coil new and was suprised to see what a difference between old and new looked like. I always grabbed one off of one of the parts I had in the shed. How much is that resistor if you dont mind. Probably wouldnt hurt to just replace it with a new one.

Yup the AC is cooling as I mentioned, idling it doesn't cool as well, so that's another issue I'm having to check the booster, VSV, actual pressure of the refrigerant and cooling fan.

as far as the resistor, retail pricing for it was $13.55 at the dealer. I kind of haggle the pricing with online OEM Parts store price at the dealer and they pretty much give me the same or close to it beats the heck out of shipping cost. The resistor part #88635-89103 cost me $10.60 each I purchased 2 of them as the one for the 86 was bad as well.

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

Been thinking that some of you all would maybe like to know more or less what the benefits are for using R152a.

R152a common duster:



1) You can get these at any office supply store or big time department stores. Read the label to make sure you are getting compressed gas and not compressed air. I looked at these 2 (MSDS) and both contain R152a.
2) EPA is considering this as I replacement for R134, still unclear to me if it would be for new cars or can be used for older cars.
3) The cooling comes close to R12 cooling.
4) Has GWP120 less than what is or going to be the limits which is GWP150
5) Cost was substantially less. I got mine for about $3.99 a 10oz can. that's $0.40 an oz.

R134



1) Available at any auto parts store or department stores.
2) EPA is not phasing it out, but increasing taxes on the product to limit the frivolous usage of it.
3) Using in older Automotive AC is sometime troublesome as it doesn't cool as good since the condensers are smaller in some cars. Sometimes just retrofitting the valve stems is not all that is required, but a larger condenser.
4) Has a GWP1300 thats way above the GWP150 this is the reason for the change.
5) I walked into a auto parts store and saw that the cheapest 12oz can was $14.99 that's $1.25 an oz.

Okay, so what I'm looking at so far if this works out over time is.

1) I can get it easily (may stock up on a few cans just in case they decide to add more taxes to it).
2) Is used almost everywhere as a duster for computers and desks, etc...
3) Pretty much cools better than R134a in my opinion.
4) destroys less of the environment (so far that they know of) because of the lower GWP120 and I read somewhere it breaks down in water quickly.
5) A substantial savings of $0.85 an oz. In other words, 12oz of R134a is $15 and 12 oz of R152a is $4.80 which is equal to a savings of $10.20 for a 12oz can or $0.85 saving per oz.


Here's a snip of a summary of R152a and R134a

At the same compressor speed, R152a system with readjustment of an expansion valve
showed better performance compared to R134a system
- 20 ~ 41% higher cooling capacity
- 27 ~ 42% higher COP
- 33 ~ 48% lower evaporator pressure drop
- 6.4 ~ 10.8 o C higher discharge temperature

Outsane

just waiting for your success case

junk4u

iTrader: (1)

So far this is a success case the cooling temps running yesterday for about 20 minutes were in the range of 28 - 35 degrees. The back seat was check with the temp gun at 68 -71 degrees.

I've read case of people running this stuff for a few years with out any problems. It's really good to have it cooling inside the truck.

Outsane

so the next question is where can I get one of those can attachments