View Poll Results: Possible Dates for Whipper Snapper Meltdown?
August 18, 19, 20th
9
52.94%
August 21,22 & 23rd
0
0%
I don't care, just get me there, I need a rock fix
8
47.06%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll
Whipper Snapper Summer Meltdown 4Runner Jam
08-24-2006, 08:05 AM
#561
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That is some good information Steve !
I was there but my knowledge of a 3rd generation is extremely limited. Scott was just attempting to get him off the mountain and we accomplished that. The damage was caused by removing the axle completely. We now know that you should only remove the center section of the axle and leave the stub in the hub to protect the bearings. We ALL learn as we go.
This one is an expensive lesson for Rob.
I was there but my knowledge of a 3rd generation is extremely limited. Scott was just attempting to get him off the mountain and we accomplished that. The damage was caused by removing the axle completely. We now know that you should only remove the center section of the axle and leave the stub in the hub to protect the bearings. We ALL learn as we go.
This one is an expensive lesson for Rob.
08-24-2006, 08:18 AM
#562
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Eventhough some people will disagree I still think Scott done what he thought was right. We all must learn from our mistakes or in this instance other people's mistakes. I really don't think there is anyone to blame Rob was trying Slickrock which HE wanted to do in HIS rig and it broke.I really hate this happened to Rob and I wish him the best on getting it repaired however I don't think there is any need in anyone getting lectured by anyone else. I am pretty sure everyone involved now knows what was done wrong and I feel confident those same guys know how to handle the same situation in the future. We aren't all as knowledgeable as some in certain areas but I think we are all adults here and can pretty much tell what we do wrong or right without any lectures from anyone else. Now with that being said I think I will go buy some lights for my roof..... Maybe I will get six.
P.S. Rob and Scott don't let this get you down we all encounter unpleasant things throughout life but it is how we react to it that will make all the difference.
P.S. Rob and Scott don't let this get you down we all encounter unpleasant things throughout life but it is how we react to it that will make all the difference.
Last edited by hlpressley; 08-24-2006 at 08:22 AM.
08-24-2006, 09:00 AM
#563
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Harold,
Don't take this personal but you misunderstood Steve's post.
He does know what he's doing and he is right. Maybe a little condesending but right none the less.
I for one will never have my runner on an obstacle like slickrock until I am absolutely certain that I and the truck are READY. Packing the tools and the replacement parts to get me off the mountain.
We all seem to learn the hard way but I pay attention to the advice of others that have been doing this far longer than me.
Rob made the decision to attempt slickrock and it was his to make, I am positive that he will not try again until he is confident in his rig and packing the tools and parts to save himself.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programing !
Don't take this personal but you misunderstood Steve's post.
He does know what he's doing and he is right. Maybe a little condesending but right none the less.
I for one will never have my runner on an obstacle like slickrock until I am absolutely certain that I and the truck are READY. Packing the tools and the replacement parts to get me off the mountain.
We all seem to learn the hard way but I pay attention to the advice of others that have been doing this far longer than me.
Rob made the decision to attempt slickrock and it was his to make, I am positive that he will not try again until he is confident in his rig and packing the tools and parts to save himself.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programing !
08-24-2006, 09:24 AM
#564
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I never said he wasn't right. I was merely saying we don't all have the knowledge of Steve and some of the others. I can promise you Rob or any of us for that matter would not have learned all that we have learned if his rig hadn't broke. I am not saying I am glad his rig broke but as long as he learns from it then he will be better off in the future because of what he learned.
I would have never even thought about taking my rig up anything like slickrock even with a locker in the raer but it was Rob's choice to make and he chose to try it so now he will have to suffer the consequencies.
Basiclly what I was saying in the previous post was I just thought Steve's post was a little harsh since once again we aren't all as experienced as Steve. I can promise you he didn't learn everything he knows by everything working right with no mistakes or mishaps. He learned from somebody's mistakes wheter it be his or someone else's but none the less it was a mistake. This is just my opinion which means nothing but thought I would share. I know that Steve knows alot about this but it just seemed a little harsh to me.
Now as my friend Doc would say" let's go have a cold one"
I would have never even thought about taking my rig up anything like slickrock even with a locker in the raer but it was Rob's choice to make and he chose to try it so now he will have to suffer the consequencies.
Basiclly what I was saying in the previous post was I just thought Steve's post was a little harsh since once again we aren't all as experienced as Steve. I can promise you he didn't learn everything he knows by everything working right with no mistakes or mishaps. He learned from somebody's mistakes wheter it be his or someone else's but none the less it was a mistake. This is just my opinion which means nothing but thought I would share. I know that Steve knows alot about this but it just seemed a little harsh to me.
Now as my friend Doc would say" let's go have a cold one"
Last edited by hlpressley; 08-24-2006 at 09:27 AM.
08-24-2006, 09:54 AM
#566
Originally Posted by sschaefer3
You know that all 95.5 Tacoma/4Runners have Semi-Float front ends with ADD alxes. The axle shaft HAS to be in the spindle or the bearings will self destruct. All of the vehicles 95 and older have full floating fronts, 79-85 SA and the 86-95 IFS, thise vehicles can be driven with the axles removed. The 95.5 Tacoma with manual hubs and the 2WD 4Runner/Tacoma are also full floatng. Now that manual hub converison does not seem so expensive does it.
So the ONLY truck you can not move without the front axles in is the ADD 4WD. So that is why your casting, bearings and spindle are destroyed and need to be replaced.
As for the axle, since I have been there, a truck with a few bolt-ons had no business being on slick rock. Invisable mods like lockers, gears and dual cases buy you time on Slick Rock. Andy was correclty equipped with the exception of the front shocks being too long, which I told him, and he made it but paid a price. Two ARB Lockers and 4.56 gears and he paid a price.
Brett made it with one locker but 4.88 gears and landing hard on the RE links I make. If he did not have those links would he have taken a stocker out, probably. Bretts run at it was also pretty by the seat of his pants. A little spazy but he made it.
Earnie made it, but Earnie has a pretty built truck with locker or two. Also two spare front axles on that hi-lift bar I made him.
Bud schooled it. Bud has a crawler & two lockers. So do I.
Chris was not there either, as much as I tease that guy, he is an outstanding spotter and quite good at this sport.
The lesson to be earned here is to take small steps, work up to the big obsticales, have spare parts with you and know how to repair your vehicle. For the cost of 2 of the 4 lights on roof you could have had a junk yard alxe. A 35mm socket and a pry bar and you would have been back in business.
So the ONLY truck you can not move without the front axles in is the ADD 4WD. So that is why your casting, bearings and spindle are destroyed and need to be replaced.
As for the axle, since I have been there, a truck with a few bolt-ons had no business being on slick rock. Invisable mods like lockers, gears and dual cases buy you time on Slick Rock. Andy was correclty equipped with the exception of the front shocks being too long, which I told him, and he made it but paid a price. Two ARB Lockers and 4.56 gears and he paid a price.
Brett made it with one locker but 4.88 gears and landing hard on the RE links I make. If he did not have those links would he have taken a stocker out, probably. Bretts run at it was also pretty by the seat of his pants. A little spazy but he made it.
Earnie made it, but Earnie has a pretty built truck with locker or two. Also two spare front axles on that hi-lift bar I made him.
Bud schooled it. Bud has a crawler & two lockers. So do I.
Chris was not there either, as much as I tease that guy, he is an outstanding spotter and quite good at this sport.
The lesson to be earned here is to take small steps, work up to the big obsticales, have spare parts with you and know how to repair your vehicle. For the cost of 2 of the 4 lights on roof you could have had a junk yard alxe. A 35mm socket and a pry bar and you would have been back in business.
Nothing said there that many others have not thought, myself included.I do take issue with you guys harping on Steve, sure he is a big boy and can take it, but all that whipper snapper bonding you guys did still won't make up for your lack of wheeling know how and how to...so heed Steve's words...they are experiential wisdom.
You won't find anyone more willing to help out, share his information or be a smart arse than Steve, but his post is anything but harsh...the fact of the matter is...the truth hurts sometimes. You guys that take issue with his post just need to lighten up...nothing in there that isn't the stone cold absolute truth! Steve is a great guy, so lay off him. If you guys wanna point some fingers of blame or be harsh on someone, go look in the mirror for not having enough guts to speak up and stop Rob from running SlickRock. It was a poor choice multiplied by lack of information, poor preparation and plain ole ignorance. It takes men to learn from their mistakes, which I think Rob has. Some of the rest of you get to learn at his expense, so take notes.
The fact of the matter is that if you had bothered to look at the trail ratings for SlickRock...a lot of folks had no business there...and the last trip to Tellico I didn't take my 85 to SlickRock...even with 37s, locked front and rear...because I had no armor and it wasn't where I wanted to be before I attempted such an obstacle. Sure, Steve called me names for pudding out, but I drove it home.
I can guarantee dang tee ya if Steve had been there, he would have talked Rob out of attempting SlickRock, so would a lot of us.
Live and learn.
Please come back Steve!
Last edited by waskillywabbit; 08-24-2006 at 10:13 AM.
08-24-2006, 10:00 AM
#567
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I realize that my decision to attempt Slickrock was not well thought out....Hindsight is 20/20, sometimes even 20/15.
That being said, i do value what you have to say Steve. It would be a shame for you not to be able to share your knowledge because people think you're harsh. The fact of the matter is, i made a bad decision. You have every right to speak the truth, and even though it may hurt, I would rather have it hurt then go without the knowledge you have provided.
I will not be attemping it again til I am sure that i will be able to do it and have to spare parts and tools tio fix whats broken.
I have a lot to learn about my whole truck in general, including the suspension.
Next time i won't let my stupidity get the best of me and think through the reprocussions of what i am doing/ attempting
Lesson learned, albeit an expensive one.
That being said, i do value what you have to say Steve. It would be a shame for you not to be able to share your knowledge because people think you're harsh. The fact of the matter is, i made a bad decision. You have every right to speak the truth, and even though it may hurt, I would rather have it hurt then go without the knowledge you have provided.
I will not be attemping it again til I am sure that i will be able to do it and have to spare parts and tools tio fix whats broken.
I have a lot to learn about my whole truck in general, including the suspension.
Next time i won't let my stupidity get the best of me and think through the reprocussions of what i am doing/ attempting
Lesson learned, albeit an expensive one.
Last edited by nc994run; 08-24-2006 at 10:06 AM.
08-24-2006, 10:03 AM
#568
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This was my first wheeling trip, I knew that slickrock was hard but I wasnt sure to what to say because in my eyes, everyone there was more knowledgable then me so I just listened to them talk.
I just hope everything gets back together alright. Its good to see somebody like Steve make a comment to us.. makes me feel special that he recognizes something like this. I never argue with something inless I have cold hearted facts or ideals that im right or know somebody who is right on the situation. Truth does hurt.. but suck it in and take it.
Edit: pics are in the trail photos so everybody go take a look.
Rob man if there was anything I could do to help out let me know brotha. Hope VT is treatin ya right
I just hope everything gets back together alright. Its good to see somebody like Steve make a comment to us.. makes me feel special that he recognizes something like this. I never argue with something inless I have cold hearted facts or ideals that im right or know somebody who is right on the situation. Truth does hurt.. but suck it in and take it.
Edit: pics are in the trail photos so everybody go take a look.
Rob man if there was anything I could do to help out let me know brotha. Hope VT is treatin ya right
Last edited by neliconcept; 08-24-2006 at 10:06 AM.
08-24-2006, 10:06 AM
#569
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Excellent response Wabbit.
I personally did not ry to stop Rob as I had no idea how he was equipped.
I only knew that I was testing my runner on the moderate stuff and I would LEARN from that, what my next step is for my new trail rig.
I did promise to go watch and help extract if needed, obviously it was a LOOOONG afternoon for us. That being said, the whipper snapper run was lacking the experienced people from previous runs. I was one of the most experienced people and I nothing about 3rd generations.
I sent a PM to Steve asking him not to quit participating. I for one VALUE his opinion and experience. I even like the smart arse comments.
This AIN"T no pissing match - we have all learned from it.
Peace out !!!!!!!!!
I personally did not ry to stop Rob as I had no idea how he was equipped.
I only knew that I was testing my runner on the moderate stuff and I would LEARN from that, what my next step is for my new trail rig.
I did promise to go watch and help extract if needed, obviously it was a LOOOONG afternoon for us. That being said, the whipper snapper run was lacking the experienced people from previous runs. I was one of the most experienced people and I nothing about 3rd generations.
I sent a PM to Steve asking him not to quit participating. I for one VALUE his opinion and experience. I even like the smart arse comments.
This AIN"T no pissing match - we have all learned from it.
Peace out !!!!!!!!!
08-24-2006, 10:45 AM
#570
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No doubt Steve knows his stuff, I didn't see how his post was harsh. I met him at Tellico in May & he couldn't have been any nicer & more helpful when we were changing my inner axle seal. He also had some very good advice for me in building my rig which I was very grateful for.
Steve- please stick around & post. I think this was a small misunderstanding.
EDIT TO ADD: for what it's worth, I probably had no business on Slickrock myself even though it was the radiatior & the skinny pedal that sidelined me. I just wanted to pound on the new 30 splines & found a weak link elsewhere in the process.
Steve- please stick around & post. I think this was a small misunderstanding.
EDIT TO ADD: for what it's worth, I probably had no business on Slickrock myself even though it was the radiatior & the skinny pedal that sidelined me. I just wanted to pound on the new 30 splines & found a weak link elsewhere in the process.
Last edited by 1985 4Runner; 08-24-2006 at 10:51 AM.
08-24-2006, 10:48 AM
#571
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I'll always be here reading, I'll just pick my responces wisely. The bottom line is I don't want to get into any arguments. If I think it is heading that way, I just have to bail out.
I am still planning on trucking/railroading my 4Runner out there and you bet your sweet booty I'll take that Slick Rock on. I'm also bringing my spotting crew as well. Brent & Cheese.
I am still planning on trucking/railroading my 4Runner out there and you bet your sweet booty I'll take that Slick Rock on. I'm also bringing my spotting crew as well. Brent & Cheese.
Last edited by sschaefer3; 08-24-2006 at 10:50 AM.
08-24-2006, 11:15 AM
#572
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Maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying Steve. I was by no means saying that what you were saying wasn't true and I know that you know what you are talking about. I also know that I have no clue especially about the harder stuff such as Slickrock and that is why I was following Doc. When I arrived at Slickrock for the very first time Rob's rig was already broken so there was nothing I could do as far as talking him out of it.
Steve please don't let my opinion of something that I obviously misunderstood keep you from helping all of us noobs on yotatech. You have already helped me a time or two and I have only been around for a short while. You are obviously an asset to this community and I hope you will accept my apology and understand that I was by no means bashing you or your intentions. Once again I apologize if I offended anyone that was by no means my intention. Steve you have to stay around here and continue posting and helping people because I sure can't help anyone.
I will look forward to maybe someday being able to tag along with some of you more experienced wheelers and see how it is really done.
I publically apologize to anyone that I may have offended in any way.
EDIT: I just read a post on another thread that kinda sums it up.
"To be great is to be misunderstood."
Steve please don't let my opinion of something that I obviously misunderstood keep you from helping all of us noobs on yotatech. You have already helped me a time or two and I have only been around for a short while. You are obviously an asset to this community and I hope you will accept my apology and understand that I was by no means bashing you or your intentions. Once again I apologize if I offended anyone that was by no means my intention. Steve you have to stay around here and continue posting and helping people because I sure can't help anyone.
I will look forward to maybe someday being able to tag along with some of you more experienced wheelers and see how it is really done.
I publically apologize to anyone that I may have offended in any way.
EDIT: I just read a post on another thread that kinda sums it up.
"To be great is to be misunderstood."
Last edited by hlpressley; 08-24-2006 at 11:47 AM.
08-24-2006, 11:46 AM
#573
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Originally Posted by sschaefer3
I'll always be here reading, I'll just pick my responces wisely. The bottom line is I don't want to get into any arguments. If I think it is heading that way, I just have to bail out.
I am still planning on trucking/railroading my 4Runner out there and you bet your sweet booty I'll take that Slick Rock on. I'm also bringing my spotting crew as well. Brent & Cheese.
I am still planning on trucking/railroading my 4Runner out there and you bet your sweet booty I'll take that Slick Rock on. I'm also bringing my spotting crew as well. Brent & Cheese.
If you need help getting that thing out here or need it picked up anywhere in the Atlanta area let me know. It can be driven or trailered wherever it needs to go provided I have the time off of work.
08-24-2006, 11:52 AM
#574
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An expensive lesson learned for all, and a lesson in why forum posts SUCK. You can never tell people's real intentions behind typed words, so just take it all in stride, we're all big boys.
Steve I can't wait to get your rig over here for some good ol fashion southern flogging, let me know when and I'll be there.
After being to Tellico this time, I've decided to finish off my truck w/ a rear bumper, play around with it a bit more, and then wait to graduate and find a true dedicated trail rig, maybe I can pull a Marc.
08-24-2006, 11:56 AM
#575
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Originally Posted by nc994run
I realize that my decision to attempt Slickrock was not well thought out....Hindsight is 20/20, sometimes even 20/15.
That being said, i do value what you have to say Steve. It would be a shame for you not to be able to share your knowledge because people think you're harsh. The fact of the matter is, i made a bad decision. You have every right to speak the truth, and even though it may hurt, I would rather have it hurt then go without the knowledge you have provided.
I will not be attemping it again til I am sure that i will be able to do it and have to spare parts and tools tio fix whats broken.
I have a lot to learn about my whole truck in general, including the suspension.
Next time i won't let my stupidity get the best of me and think through the reprocussions of what i am doing/ attempting
Lesson learned, albeit an expensive one.
That being said, i do value what you have to say Steve. It would be a shame for you not to be able to share your knowledge because people think you're harsh. The fact of the matter is, i made a bad decision. You have every right to speak the truth, and even though it may hurt, I would rather have it hurt then go without the knowledge you have provided.
I will not be attemping it again til I am sure that i will be able to do it and have to spare parts and tools tio fix whats broken.
I have a lot to learn about my whole truck in general, including the suspension.
Next time i won't let my stupidity get the best of me and think through the reprocussions of what i am doing/ attempting
Lesson learned, albeit an expensive one.
Again, that is just my .02
08-24-2006, 11:59 AM
#576
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Originally Posted by Stump1883
After being to Tellico this time, I've decided to finish off my truck w/ a rear bumper, play around with it a bit more, and then wait to graduate and find a true dedicated trail rig, maybe I can pull a Marc.
08-24-2006, 12:27 PM
#577
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My goal for next summer is to by an older truck to be a dedicated trail rig that can be thrown on a trailer for trips
I'm not discouraged from wheeling at all...just realize i need to have a good backup plan (daily driver) if i do mess something up
I'm not discouraged from wheeling at all...just realize i need to have a good backup plan (daily driver) if i do mess something up
08-24-2006, 12:51 PM
#578
sorry, Rob, but not only were you ill-equipped to tackle such an obstacle, but like steve and wabbit said, you should have known that a broken CV was pretty much expected with an open front and if you didn't have the knowledge, tools, and parts to do a change yourself, then you didn't belong there in the first place.
i'm not chastizing you, and i think you've learned your lesson. however, i think that others who were on that trip and who may be reading this need to learn that lesson with you. if you want to wheel, then you have to be prepared for the worst, and ready to fix it at a moment's notice.
as far as having a dedicated trail rig goes - that's a matter of personal opinion. if you are well equipped and have a good knowledge base, then you can push a DD as far as you care to push it. to me, a trailer queen is defeating the purpose of being able to "get you there and back" type of rig that we all want to have. not having to depend on it to get to work M-F is nice, but isn't all that necessary as long as you stick to the stuff that you are prepared for and can take with confidence.
i'm not chastizing you, and i think you've learned your lesson. however, i think that others who were on that trip and who may be reading this need to learn that lesson with you. if you want to wheel, then you have to be prepared for the worst, and ready to fix it at a moment's notice.
as far as having a dedicated trail rig goes - that's a matter of personal opinion. if you are well equipped and have a good knowledge base, then you can push a DD as far as you care to push it. to me, a trailer queen is defeating the purpose of being able to "get you there and back" type of rig that we all want to have. not having to depend on it to get to work M-F is nice, but isn't all that necessary as long as you stick to the stuff that you are prepared for and can take with confidence.
08-24-2006, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bamachem
sorry, Rob, but not only were you ill-equipped to tackle such an obstacle, but like steve and wabbit said, you should have known that a broken CV was pretty much expected with an open front and if you didn't have the knowledge, tools, and parts to do a change yourself, then you didn't belong there in the first place.
i'm not chastizing you, and i think you've learned your lesson. however, i think that others who were on that trip and who may be reading this need to learn that lesson with you. if you want to wheel, then you have to be prepared for the worst, and ready to fix it at a moment's notice.
i'm not chastizing you, and i think you've learned your lesson. however, i think that others who were on that trip and who may be reading this need to learn that lesson with you. if you want to wheel, then you have to be prepared for the worst, and ready to fix it at a moment's notice.
08-24-2006, 01:07 PM
#580
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Originally Posted by bamachem
as far as having a dedicated trail rig goes - that's a matter of personal opinion. if you are well equipped and have a good knowledge base, then you can push a DD as far as you care to push it. to me, a trailer queen is defeating the purpose of being able to "get you there and back" type of rig that we all want to have. not having to depend on it to get to work M-F is nice, but isn't all that necessary as long as you stick to the stuff that you are prepared for and can take with confidence.
I especially agree with the "then you can push a DD as far as you care to push it" I think alot of it goes back to what compromises you are willing to make as far as where and how you wheel and what you drive on a daily basis. If I drove 2 miles a day then I wouldn't mind doing it in a buggy, but unfortunately I drive 60+ in stop and go traffic and it isn't feasible to do so in something I want to beat on. I don't think a "trailer queen" is necessarily the way to go, but if I am going to go wheeling a few hours away then I will definitely be towing it since I have the ability to do so.
