well i guess i was being an idiot and testin the injectors wrong i just got some bad gas found the porblem, so thanks everyone for your help.

 

so now i got fuel and i got spark to number 1 cylinder but 2 3 4 dont have spark is that the ICM?

 

If the pick-up in your distributor or your igniter and coil were faulty you shouldn't get fire to any plugs. First thing that I would check is your wires, cap and rotor if they are ok, then I'd test the coil and igniter and pick-up.

 

If you're only getting spark to #1.... hmmm. Sounds like either ignitor..or, could be cap.... Wouldn't think you'd have 3 wires gone bad and one is just fine....but I guess I'd have to say, anything's possible at this point in my 'diggin through yota's' journey, lol. I wouldn't think the coil would only fire on #1, either. The ignitor works with the 'injector timing'.....I believe through the pick up coil(guys?). I'm not sure that could cause only spark to one cylinder though... trippy.... I'm watching, I'll post something if I find a good nugget of info for ya.

Best wishes,

Mark

 

would it be possible that after the head work was done the spark plug gap is too big and it cant ignite the mixture? should i maybe tighten the gap

 

Well, it should work fine with a .30-.32 gap, Scharp. Did you swap out an ignitor from a working rig to try out that theory/verify it's not the problem?(I know, it's not always easy to find them, and you don't wanna throw parts at it.) Hmmmm.

 

How are you verifying the spark? Are you pulling the plug wires and laying them on the PS Pump Bracket or head or something? Also, you might want to get it to TDC, pointing at #1 on the rotor, and pull the dizzy, turn the key on and rotate the rotor back and forth a few times over the contact points to see if it's sparking off at the points. Just be sure to put the rotor to 12oclock as you drop it back in, that way it will rotate CCW as it's going in and bring you right back to #1 on the rotor. My buddy had his Distributor in 180 degrees off, and was having similar problems....Only, his was popping away, just wouldn't start. Maybe list what you're trying, in detailed, numbers, like

1. this is how I tested the plug wires for spark >>>>
2. This is how I tested the Coil/Ignitor
3. This is what Gap I have
4. Etc....

PS>

YOU'RE SURE you're still getting fuel THROUGH the injectors into the Cylinder?

YOU'RE SURE you're NOT getting spark?

 

set plug gap between .025 -.035" i run mine a bit on the tight side, .027 or so.


also pull your disturbitor cap off and look for cracking, carbon trace lines, and worn edges. you need to look at the rotor tip for sharp squre edge, aswell as the four post's insde the cap.

i've never seen a coil/igniter fire only 1 cylinder when on a distributor style system. now if they are more like a distributorless system like the 87 turbo supra where you can have multiple coils than it's a different story.

 

Yeah, I agree, yet I think he sent me a message that he was actually getting "no spark", ....that that was only a one time thing on that #1 fire. I could be wrong, hopefully he will clarify and list out all he's done/tried again. Yeah, Scharp.... you can sometimes see MASSIVE shredding of the points in the cap by the rotor, too. This isn't always just a rotor issue. It can sometimes be a distributor issue, where the shaft has developed some slop and consequently forces the rotor up too high. However, the rotor CAN just get sloppy, itself, and spin upward and make contact with the cap points, wearing them almost completely out.

I hope you get it, soon(maybe you have, today? THAT would be great!)

Mark

 

well now its back to the fuel problem something else is goin on i ended up havin a crack in the cap got new plugs, wires, and cap and rotor have spark now. but crank over a couple times pull #1 plug no smell of gas. but i break the cold start injector there is fuel to the rail the injectors are getting battery voltage. but how much cranking voltage should the injectors have.

 

I believe it's 5V, Scharp, ...can't be sure on that. The Voltage Resistor on the Pass. Side Fire Wall, next to the starter relay, that is what limits voltage to the injectors. THEY CAN go bad, and if I remember right from a couple other threads, guys have experienced a total loss of injector pulse when that thing went out. I believe myyota is one of them. He has a big red lifted SAS first gen runner.....if you search for him. He's also posted on my build thread, many times(probably most recently a couple pages back). My build is the red link, below.

Keep an eye on the CAP and ROTOR, too,.... just wanna be sure that your Dizzy isn't CAUSING those problems, via 'too much play', etc.

GOSH I hate these gremlins, ....I feel for ya, Scharp. Have you shot 4crawler a message? The guy's an electrical engineer,....Yota Guru, ....and I'm sure MANY other things he's reached Guru status in, lol. Might wanna shoot him a PM and just be sure to be concise and LISTED, in an organized manner, what you've done, replaced, tried, tested, swapped out, etc., with VERY precise description of what it's doing(or not doing, lol).

Not sure, other than wiring harness issues, what could cause "NO FUEL TO INJECTORS, BUT FUEL TO RAIL", other than;

1. Voltage Resistor(the finned unit next to the starter relay on most models, passenger side firewall)
2. Intake Ground Wire(single wire ground to the bottom left intake stud)
3. EFI Fuse(however, that would stop fuel pump, would it not, guys?)
4. ECU Issues

I'm not sure, but I believe when you have NO SPARK, there is a fuel cut as well.... but if you've got 'fuel to the rail(CSI)', ...then I guess that wouldn't be a factor, eh?( What I mean is; If the fuel cut off engaged, due to no spark,...even though you have spark back, maybe you have to reset the ECU?) My buddy had his dizzy 180* off and NO problem getting spark, but could not get fuel to the injectors....To the rail, sure, but injectors, no. He also had an issue in the harness(both Y-Split-Wires for the 1 into 2 for the injectors in the harness were completely corroded....thus, NO FUEL OUT OF the injectors.) In that case, he is pretty sure that the Guru that worked on it said, "The 'no fuel OUT OF injectors but up to them fine...that's due to the wires I repaired".... and not so much the Dizzy being 180* off. The dizzy being off only stopped it from starting, and would allow it to SNAP-CRACKLE-POP on occasion, lol.

Have you done a Noid Light Test? That was the easiest test for me. I actually found one in the kit at O-reily's that worked, and found that my #2 was NOT firing. It CAN BE quite a pain in the rump to get the noid lights on the injector connectors....but it can be done on most of them without removing the plenum and rail. You probably would find out quite a bit if you could just test 1 and 3 or something.

 

thanks a lot chefyota4x4 ill have to try the noid lights after i get out of school.

 

The resistance value of the solenoid resistor is constant, because of that the voltage drop across it is constant and it is minimal. The voltage in the injector circuit is always battery voltage 9-14 v. The resistor is there to lower the current (amps) in the circuit. (see post # 20). 5v. is a sensor voltage, the ECU sends out 5v to the water temp sensor, O2 sensor, etc. and monitors the return voltage from the sensors to determine engine operating conditions.
Fuel cut occurs under certain operating conditions at a specifiec rpm, the test is to unplug the TPS once the engine is warmed up, short Idl and E2 on the TPS connector, rev the engine and you will get fuel cut at 1800rpm, with fuel return at 1600. You don't get fuel cut on an engine that is not running.
You have measured proper voltage at No 10 and No 20, all that proves is that the solenoid resistor is not open. Resistors can either burn open or short to ground. When you checked the solenoid resistor did you only take voltage readings or did you check the resistance values of it as well? The readings from the single wire (B+) to either side of the double plug (No 10 No 20) should be 3 ohms. (each side) Also check No 10 and No 20 to the case of the resistor to make sure that it is not shorted. Next you need to do the same tests on all 4 injectors the resistance across them should be 1-3 ohms, but also check them to ground(outside case of the injector). The chances of all 4 injectors failing at the same time are slim at best, you might have one go bad but all 4 at the same time....can't see it. If they test okay then most likely you have shorted wiring in the harness, but not a dead short (short to ground) but a short between the feed wire going to the injectors and No 10 or No 20 leaving the injectors. An easy test is to unplug all of the injectors (not one at a time because you are dealing with two parallel circuits so they all need to be unpluged) and place your ohmmeter leads on each side of the injector clip. The readings should be infinity on an analog meter of overload on a digital. If you get anything else you have a short somewhere. Remember electricity follows the path of least resistance, it will follow shorted wires to the ECU instead of going through the resistance of the injectors. If all of these things check out, then I'd find another ECU because the trigger circuit for the injectors in yours is toast.

 

The resistance value of the solenoid resistor is constant, because of that the voltage drop across it is constant and it is minimal. The voltage in the injector circuit is always battery voltage 9-14 v. The resistor is there to lower the current (amps) in the circuit. (see post # 20). 5v. is a sensor voltage, the ECU sends out 5v to the water temp sensor, O2 sensor, etc. and monitors the return voltage from the sensors to determine engine operating conditions.
Fuel cut occurs under certain operating conditions at a specifiec rpm, the test is to unplug the TPS once the engine is warmed up, short Idl and E2 on the TPS connector, rev the engine and you will get fuel cut at 1800rpm, with fuel return at 1600. You don't get fuel cut on an engine that is not running.
You have measured proper voltage at No 10 and No 20, all that proves is that the solenoid resistor is not open. Resistors can either burn open or short to ground. When you checked the solenoid resistor did you only take voltage readings or did you check the resistance values of it as well? The readings from the single wire (B+) to either side of the double plug (No 10 No 20) should be 3 ohms. (each side) Also check No 10 and No 20 to the case of the resistor to make sure that it is not shorted. Next you need to do the same tests on all 4 injectors the resistance across them should be 1-3 ohms, but also check them to ground(outside case of the injector). The chances of all 4 injectors failing at the same time are slim at best, you might have one go bad but all 4 at the same time....can't see it. If they test okay then most likely you have shorted wiring in the harness, but not a dead short (short to ground) but a short between the feed wire going to the injectors and No 10 or No 20 leaving the injectors. An easy test is to unplug all of the injectors (not one at a time because you are dealing with two parallel circuits so they all need to be unpluged) and place your ohmmeter leads on each side of the injector clip. The readings should be infinity on an analog meter of overload on a digital. If you get anything else you have a short somewhere. Remember electricity follows the path of least resistance, it will follow shorted wires to the ECU instead of going through the resistance of the injectors. If all of these things check out, then I'd find another ECU because the trigger circuit for the injectors in yours is toast.

so if injectors ohm out good and the clips get an ecu?

 

so if injectors ohm out good and the clips get an ecu?

 

I'm not trying to second guess you, but when you loosened the cold start injector bolt and saw fuel, was it under pressure? Before I start suggesting parts replacement I would like to verify that this problem is not fuel related.
Also we need to prove that the injectors are not operating, so have you tried having someone crank the engine while you use a stethscope or a long screwdriver from your ear to the injector body to listen for the clicking of the injectors operating?
Before you start looking for another ECU there is one other possible explanation! The following is taken directly from a Toyota Training manual.
“Because injection timing is based on engine RPM, the ECU must receive an RPM signal to operate the injector driver circuits. With conventional EFI, this signal comes directly from the coil and is identified as IG. With TCCS, the RPM and crankcase signals come from the Ne and G1 sensors located in the distributor. If these signals are lost, the ECU will not pulse the injectors.”
The 22re uses a VAST(Toyota Acronym) ignition system in which the injectors are batch (simultaneously) fired and it doesn't need the IG signal to start, but it uses the Ne (crank position) signal to determine as the name suggests the crank position. By monitoring the crank position the ECU knows what the RPM of the engine is at any given moment in time.
Therefore if your Ne pickup is faulty or if there are any breaks or shorts in the Ne wiring circuit from the distributor, ignitor to the ECU your injectors will not fire.
Now you said that you had head work done, are you sure that your distributor timing is correct? If it's not maybe that's the problem. If it is okay the next move would be to verify that the Ne circuit wiring is Ok, after that there is no back yard mechanic test for the Ne pick-up coil. It sends a square wave to the ECU and can only be tested with an oscilloscope. The only other option is to find a good working distributor to test with. If the problem is not the distributor then it has to be the ECU.

 

Fhewwwwwwwww! ....NOW THAT'S INFORMATIVE! Great write up, Matt!

That's what I was trying to tell you, earlier, Scharp, regarding the Dizzy and Ignitor determining firing of the injectors(even regarding what I said about making sure the Dizzy isn't off 180 Degrees).

I tested my ECU, and while it checked out ok on MOST numbers related to IGN and EFI needs/applications...... when I swapped it out with another known working ECU, the problem seemed to mellow out. However, after a couple days, I began to notice I was EATING fuel, getting Check Engine Lights(trouble codes of O2 Sensor, Ign code-{Dizzy, coil, etc.} and Knock Sensor)....and yet seemed to run much better. Well, it turned out that the ECU I was using was from an 88, not an 87 like my truck. Why is this significant? NO, really, that's what I was asking, hahaha. Well, turns out, the 88 ECU I got was looking for different pulse/voltage readings and resistance from the O2 than my brand new OEM 87 O2 Sensor was giving.....so ANY TIME I went over 2000 RPM(which is when the O2 Sensor kicks in and starts evaluating levels in the pipe and sending info to the ECU, which decides whether to enrich or lean out the fuel))....over 2000, it was setting off a code that the O2 was faulty or problematic. The knock sensor code was due to the 88 ECU being set to an 88 Knock Sensor that had different resistance values. The Ignition Code, I never figured out. Put back my old ECU and the codes IMMEDIATELY went away.

My problem ended up being MY CAM! Very strange things it was causing, and MANY guru's couldn't figure it out(made me not feel so bad, lol). It was causing my idle to drop and my engine firing to feel VERY MISSY, chunky and just all out crappy. It would run FINE under a load/heavy throttle or higher RPM...but the second I tried to idle, .......ISSUES!

I ran EVERY test at the ECU that the Factory Service Manual offers, etc., etc., etc..... and by the time I was done throwing money and diagnosis fees at it, ...... let's just say it wasn't FREE! lol. The best method is to find out WHAT IT'S NOT, first, like Matt is suggesting. This is why I was telling you to take readings, like with a Multi-meter, then possibly a noid light test with the right noid lights(they pulse a light when the injector is getting the proper juice....They even have a kit that you can test both sides{injector and connector wiring} ), then list your findings with a.....

1.
2.
3.

.....method. It helps you to have an Organized Process of Elimination(POE) to go by and for others to follow. It's a bit daunting trying to read through the past posts.... Since I've been watching for a while, it's not so bad, but for someone jumping in, it might be a drive by thread, ya know? Just a thought. Not trying to give ya hard time or anything, Scharp.... I know, it's stressful enough from where you're at right now, .....I KNOW, believe me, lol. Maybe make a fresh post with everything listed out that has been done recently to the motor and the rest of it, everything you've tried, replaced or tested, etc.????

 

thanks everyone for the help i found out the problem. it was a ground wire for the ecu drivers that was corroded. but now i get to rebuild the engine cuz i got like 50psi of compression across the board. my rings are stuck to the pistons

 

check cam timming before you rebuild. also put a cap or two of engine oil into each cylinder after the dry compression test to see if it's the ring's or the vavles..

wish you the best of luck.

 

10 seconds of wd40 spraying into each of the spark plug holes and it should take care of that..