mechagouki

Hey there, I have to get my 4Runner back on the road, and I could really use some good advice.

The truck is an '89 SR5, 5-speed, 360,00kms on it. I love it more than any other vehicle I've owned!

January 2013 I replaced the front main seal, (which is absolutely the most advanced engine mechanics I've ever done), the truck had been bleeding oil and running kind of rough (very cold winter in Ontario that year - lots of -20 days), I did the work in my freezing, badly lit garage, but everything went pretty much OK, put everything back together and the truck immediately ran better.

Had about a week of smooth running and then the truck started to run really rough when started, then crazy engine surging whilst running, after a couple of days realised there was bubbling in the rad expansion tank and sweet smelling white smoke from muffler - I suspect I underfilled the coolant after doing the front seal and warped the head - the other possibility being that just by coincidence the timing chain chose that week to eat through its housing.

So we had very little money at the time, bought a cheap Honda Accord and have driven it since, but the whole time I've been promising myself and the truck I'd fix it. We live in a small town, and our local shop won't even give me a quote on the work - not a vehicle he wants to work on. We still have very little money to spare, but really need 2 vehicles and I don't want to part with my awesome truck and buy another boring car.

So I've convinced myself I can do the head gasket and timing chain myself, I'm pretty mechanically adept, and good at following instructions, but I'm still kind of daunted as far as what parts I should buy, and which is the best guide to doing the work.

I see lots of engine rebuild kits on eBay, ranging about $200-$600, but I have no idea if any of them are any good? I saw one place (LC Engineering) does a double row timing chain, and I can see how that might be a good idea, but it's pricey. I also don't know whether I should buy a new head, a re-manufactured one or just have mine machined flat again?

The rebuild kits also seem to offer Piston size options - presumably to increase power, but I would guess at the cost of fuel efficiency (ha ha), would a local shop be equipped to rebore to whatever size I bought, and how much would machining the head and/or a rebore approx cost me?

I probably have about $800 to $1000 (absolute max) to spend on this work, and if that's not enough please go right ahead and say it.

Most importantly, I need a good clear guide to completing the work, preferably one without too much technical jargon that I'll have to translate.

I'll take on board any advice available, and apologise if I missed a sticky that already has this information in it - I did scan them before posting, honest.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

You failed to mention just what engine you have !! You do mention a double row chain which leads me to a 22re.

One should really not buy your engine parts if your doing the complete engine till it is apart and things can be measured .

You really have no idea just what needs to be done.

I would look at Engine Builder for parts

If your only doing a timing chain even with a new head you should be able to stay within your budget.

A complete engine rebuild doubtful for the money you have.

mechagouki

Hey, thanks for the reply! Yes it's a 22RE (I honestly didn't know there was a 3VZE 1st Gen), I really just planned head, TC and water and oil pumps.

I also forgot to mention that the truck has been sitting the last 18 months, It does still run though.

Janos01

In addition to replacing the head gasket, you will be spending more to fix other things as it is a can of worms. Also if the head gasket is replaced, you might as well rebuild the top and bottom as the engine is half way apart. Otherwise, I would get the engine checked for compression and get the cooling system checked before you start with the HG.

mechagouki

Hmmm, I really don't have the time, money or skill for a full rebuild. I wish I could, and I know at some point I'll have to, but for now just having it running properly again is my main goal.

So a compression test would confirm (or eliminate) head gasket? Is it really possible that a worn though timing cover could cause surging/white smoke/rough idle literally overnight?

I'm just thinking - it's very likely one or the other, and either repair requires pulling the head - right?

This can of worms of which you speak - hoses, vacuum tubing, wiring, that sort of thing?

Janos01

A compression test will let you know if the engine is running normally. For the head gasket a mechanic who specifically works on Toyota's can tell you for sure or they might have a test kit which can check for blown HGs.

White smoke out of the tail pipe is a definite sign of a blown HG and yes sometimes it can happen over night. The HG blew on my 90 4runner when i got to work on a Friday. There were no major indications and it ran fine the previews day.

And yes a can of worms is what I mentioned earlier, specially you will be replacing more than just the HG. Such as hoses, seals, ect.

mechagouki

OK, started the teardown yesterday, bit daunted TBH, but past PONR.

So many wires, tubes etc, took a bunch of pictures before starting so hopefully they'll make sense. Likewise small pile of bolts I have accumulated that I don't rememnber where they went.

Engine has been leaking oil from somewhere on passenger side, valve cover maybe? Everything just coated in black mess. Only real hiccup so far - both bolts connecting EGR to EFi unit sheared off - not sure how much of a PITA that will be to fix.

Also removed fuel rail from intake manifold and have since learned that is ill-advised? Everything needs a thorough clean so it makes sense to me to do some extra dissassembly.

Waiting on a shipping quote from engnbldr.com for gasket set, timing chain and water/oil pumps. Will be replacing all hoses and vaccuum tubing too, can someone advise me what size tubing to buy?

mechagouki

OK, so I'm totally stuck.

Pulled all the crap off the top and sides of the engine, released exhaust manifold no problem. cannot get lower intake off.

I've removed all 10 bolts including the allen-head bolt through the thermostat housing. It seems to be being held in place by whatever that thing is bolted to the underside with the pipe that runs around the back of the head (EGR?) I undid the nuts under there, but there is a sandwich of intake/unknown part/meta pipe that seems to prevent me from removing the manifold.

So, I decided to leave lower intake in place and remove the head with it still attached - got 9 bolts out OK, but one broke, it's the second to last (going from front of engine) on the driver's side, I removed the valve rockers and bolts and the bolt seems to have broken right about 1/2 way down, making me worry that it's seized into the head, rather than the block - I cannot get the head to move and if I pry at the point suggested in the Haynes manual a little oil seems from under the head at the front, but it doesn't lift.

So, what now?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Where do you live ?? In person help might be close at hand !!!

There is a water tube that bolts to the back of the timing cover that might be holding the head on.

Right side of the engine it might be hard to see

Since that was no doubt what was keeping the lower intake on as well .

You did get the bolt out of the head that goes into the top of the timing cover?? In the pool of oil in front of the cam gear.

It is so much easier for other people to spend your money .

You can only afford to do what you can.

Remember head bolts get torqued to 65 foot pounds !!!!

mechagouki

I'm in Ontario, Canada just North of Peterborough FWIW.

Got the bolt in the pool of oil, not sure about the water pipe - is that the right of the engine looking at it from the front?

So the broken head bolt might just be seized into the block? I put some WD40 into the bolt hole in the hopes it might loosen things up.

83

One thing I'll say: do more research before just pulling parts. Just randomly tearing into the engine hoping you'll remember how things go, and hoping you'll do things right, is wrong.

I like the attitude, to some extent, but it seems like you're diving in way over your head and you're going to be sorry if you don't slow down and take a step back.

IF you have everything disconnected, the head will come out. I'm pretty sure there are only threads in the block, and the head bolts just slide right through the head. It's not easy to get the head off. It's very heavy (especially with the intake still attached) and is bonded to the block due to weight and years of sitting there. It doesn't come off easy. There are dowels and your broken bolt going through the head into the block, so prying one way or another won't really work, you kind of need to pry straight up...

But that's assuming you've disconnected everything, and unfortunately from over here on the internet, that's all we can do is assume.

Getting broken bolts out gets pretty annoying. You're going to need to google extraction equipment and techniques. It's going to cost a little money, be frustrating and time consuming, depending on where it broke. You maybe can get it with a file and pliers if there's enough sticking up. The head came off?

Especially the first time, diving into mechanics can be seriously frustrating and overwhelming. The manual never covers everything you need to know, and things almost never go along without a hitch. You always run into some problem.

Do some internet research before spraying chemicals into the engine, before taking out more bolts and parts etc. It'll save you some grief. This is a sort of complicated job and I can't think of every little thing you might run into so...sorry I'm not being more specific. There are probably long threads with photos describing this job. Watch them and read them and get familiar with the process, with the different parts and what they look like and how they come out, what parts often cause problems, what to do if they do cause problems. BEFORE going any farther. Know what to expect.

There are methods people use to label vacuum hose before removing it. Sounds like you're too late on that.

So...if you don't have the money to have someone else do it, and you're stubborn enough to not give up, you will get this done. But man it's gonna be a pain. This a nasty job to take on for basically your second auto repair, with no experienced in-person help.

Without photos we're only going to be able to do so much for you...

So after that raincloud I suppose you deserve a silver lining:

There are plenty of people here who have done this job. If you slow down and stop making mistakes, ask about stuff before blindly tearing into it, do a LOT of research, keep asking questions, and start posting photos, you'll get through this!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Vehicle directions are always the same given from the drivers seat left is always left right is always right.

mechagouki

Alright, thanks for some sound advice, definitely feeling like I may have made things more difficult for myself, haven't had time to pick up a wrench since my last post, but I took some pictures tonight:

Here's a view of the whole engine bay, as you can clearly see, there has been a longstanding oil leak down the right side of the engine. This is how it currently looks.


Here's the head bolt that broke along with 2 that didn't for size comparison:


Exhaust manifold is clear of engine, broke one heat shield bolt, that's all:


I'm probably going to regret removing this thing right? But it was badly corroded and probably needed replacing:


Lower intake manifold, can't get it off, lots of black crap inside:


Valve springs are covered in black crap too, bolt hole in centre of picture is one with broken bolt:


Right side (thanks wyoming9 ) of engine, as can be seen, I have removed fuel rail, probably going to regret that right?



So that's where I'm at. 83, your words of wisdom are very helpful, no, I have no money (I earn less than $14 CAD p/h, that's $10 in real money), my auto repair experience is minimal, but I am stubborn as they come, and I'm a quick study. Plus I love the truck and just won't let it die. So I'll grab the FSM, slow down, and listen hard to any advice you good people care to give me.

83

Nice photos!

So you mentioned, I think, that you definitely got all the intake manifold bolts and nuts off? I've only ever gone this far into a non-fuel injected engine, so a bit more simple manifold, but I'm pretty sure they bolt to the actual head in the same way. There are some studs with nuts on them, and bolts hidden under the manifold, but you may have got those already.

You can tell from the threads on the head bolts that they don't thread into the head. They just slide through the head and thread into the block. So that bolt shouldn't keep you from removing the head.

That's a serious oil leak! Looks like it's been spraying oil.

Aside from making sure you've got all the intake manifold bolts off, I'll just say that your engine is in pretty rough shape. With that much oil, I'd be worried that it's possibly pretty worn down.

You can only do what you can do with the money you have, but I'd hate to see you do all this work and spend money just to put it back together and see that front oil leak start right back up (because part of it could be the front main seal) and other problems.

But...with a new head gasket and timing cover gaskets you could limp it along for a while, possibly.

Have you considered trying to find a donor engine? Do you have good junkyards in your area? Finding some truck that maybe has an engine in better shape than yours might be a decent way to go. But I don't know for sure. Depends on what deals you can find.

But dropping a whole engine into your truck would actually be less complicated than doing a head gasket/timing chain job.

Anyway. If you can look at diagrams and photos of the intake and where the bolts/studs are, and contort yourself around your engine bay and confirm whether you do or don't have any left to take out, you'll be able to get that thing off. Same with the head. My guess is that the head is free. It's just bonded to the block and really heavy. Once you get the intake off you'll be able to get the head, too.

On my 20R it's possible to take the head off with the intake and exhaust still attached. So I tried that once...without an engine hoist, it wasn't happening. You're leaning over in the worst position, where you have no strength or way to get leverage, trying to lift way too much weight. I couldn't get the head to budge until I had both manifolds off.

So the "right" thing to do, just going off the looks of your engine , would be a rebuild. That's what should happen. But with money being tight, the next best thing is I guess to either do the work you're doing, or find a donor engine in better shape and just swap it in.

It would be nice to know if your front main is leaking, and whether there's much play in the crank.

I'd be interested to know your compression numbers when you get it all back together.

But under the circumstances, hopefully things are in good enough shape that with the work you're planning on doing, you can have a drivable vehicle that'll last another 20,000 miles or so without dying on you.

I'm not a good enough mechanic to know how to tell...I can just do some basic trouble shooting and then replace things.

68jimmy

Thanks for all the info, probably doing my '89 in the spring