brake bleeding
05-30-2012, 08:41 PM
#41
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It did not, I'm certain of that. I added fluid every few pumps and never let it get down to the minimum fluid line.
Last thing before removing MC etc. - did you crank out your rear shoes to Juuuust rub the drum, before bleeding etc? I've found that, on jackstands, you can roll the tires forward and work the bellcranks until the just start to rub a bit, don't be shy. That makes adjusting the rears unneccesary (since they already are at that point!). If the shoes are in too far, you may get really spongy, non-effective brakes. Easiest done with truck on stands of course.
If it's the pushrod, I'm gonna let someone have a go at that. I'm too scared of damaging that PITA-to-fit part that costs $$$ to twist the nut too much.
How do I test for a vac leak?
Thanks for your advice!
05-31-2012, 03:51 AM
#42
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Ohhh - I was looking at the pic from XXX above, the crusty one, lol. Your LSPV looks awesome! Mine had to be removed, cleaned up, heated/iced to get the bleeder open, etc. No worries for you.
Yeah - I'd put the thing up on stands, and roll the rear wheels by hand. You should have some actual DRAG. Not a TON, but enough to feel it a bit, and hear the shoes rubbing all the way thru the roll (not just dit-dit-dit, but scraaaaaape, a little). You hand-crank the bellcranks til they click to send the shoes out a little at a time. Each click is only like 1/30th of a mm. Do for each side. Yes, this makes the shoe wear in like .0001 mm, but that's what the E brake method does anyway. This will save you a ton of time vs. trying the 'back up and set the brake', or the 'roll out the star wheel' methods.
My first time took me like 6 hrs. to get the drums on, shoes adjusted, system bled...next project I did the calipers, and put them in UPSIDE DOWN
So don't feel bad, lol. After that, I can do brakes in like 1 1/2 hours, he he.
Now, if the shoes aren't out there lightly touching the drum (they will wear in quickly, and be at the right distance after that), you WILL have spongy, crappy brakes!
Feel free to test them after that, may need to bleed again tho. I know it sucks, but it's the only way to be sure.
After that, the MC/booster gets suspicious. Testing for vac leak:
Well, you can measure vac pressure with a gauge and all that, but if you can HEAR a hiss up there, I'd try to find that! Narrow it down to a hose....if one is leaking, you just replace it, bam. Try to find other syptoms, like turning the wheel if you have PS and seeing how things change. Beyond that, you're right - you paid good $ for the booster, you don't wanna pork it! So you'd need a knowledgeable buddy or mechanic.
Check the FSM re. brake, MC, booster - see if there's a test procedure. Most of this can be done without expensive tools and stuff....
And - I do believe that, rolling down a SAFE, MILD hill with no engine on, you should have 'decent' brakes if you have them adjusted right and bled, even if the booster is messed up. You'd feel them engage, it would just take more foot pressure to actuate them, telling you THAT stuff is ok. Make sure you can stop at the bottom, tho!!! I use a "U" shaped place I know of for that test, off the road, LOL. I mean, 1mph, not 25 - if you can't stop, ouch!
Have you searched "booster" on here? or "vacuum leak"? Probably some threads that would be helpful.
Nothing is more aggravating than chasing gremlins like this, so hang in there! Nothing is as rewarding as finishing up a brake job like yours, and getting it right, even if it takes 29 hours And next time, you'll jump on that crap and be done in like an hour!
Yeah - I'd put the thing up on stands, and roll the rear wheels by hand. You should have some actual DRAG. Not a TON, but enough to feel it a bit, and hear the shoes rubbing all the way thru the roll (not just dit-dit-dit, but scraaaaaape, a little). You hand-crank the bellcranks til they click to send the shoes out a little at a time. Each click is only like 1/30th of a mm. Do for each side. Yes, this makes the shoe wear in like .0001 mm, but that's what the E brake method does anyway. This will save you a ton of time vs. trying the 'back up and set the brake', or the 'roll out the star wheel' methods.
My first time took me like 6 hrs. to get the drums on, shoes adjusted, system bled...next project I did the calipers, and put them in UPSIDE DOWN
So don't feel bad, lol. After that, I can do brakes in like 1 1/2 hours, he he.
Now, if the shoes aren't out there lightly touching the drum (they will wear in quickly, and be at the right distance after that), you WILL have spongy, crappy brakes!
Feel free to test them after that, may need to bleed again tho. I know it sucks, but it's the only way to be sure.
After that, the MC/booster gets suspicious. Testing for vac leak:
Well, you can measure vac pressure with a gauge and all that, but if you can HEAR a hiss up there, I'd try to find that! Narrow it down to a hose....if one is leaking, you just replace it, bam. Try to find other syptoms, like turning the wheel if you have PS and seeing how things change. Beyond that, you're right - you paid good $ for the booster, you don't wanna pork it! So you'd need a knowledgeable buddy or mechanic.
Check the FSM re. brake, MC, booster - see if there's a test procedure. Most of this can be done without expensive tools and stuff....
And - I do believe that, rolling down a SAFE, MILD hill with no engine on, you should have 'decent' brakes if you have them adjusted right and bled, even if the booster is messed up. You'd feel them engage, it would just take more foot pressure to actuate them, telling you THAT stuff is ok. Make sure you can stop at the bottom, tho!!! I use a "U" shaped place I know of for that test, off the road, LOL. I mean, 1mph, not 25 - if you can't stop, ouch!
Have you searched "booster" on here? or "vacuum leak"? Probably some threads that would be helpful.
Nothing is more aggravating than chasing gremlins like this, so hang in there! Nothing is as rewarding as finishing up a brake job like yours, and getting it right, even if it takes 29 hours And next time, you'll jump on that crap and be done in like an hour!
12-03-2012, 04:37 PM
#43
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I'm hoping my next attempt at getting my new calipers bled goes better than what I've just read in this thread. Hoping it's something simple with my situation. My brakes were pretty much working ok when I started tearing my truck apart. I had planned on doing a 4" lift and so I took the front lines off. After new LCA bushings, Brake Calipers, turned rotors, new pads, wheel bearings/seals, shocks, stabilizer bushings and end links, Upper/Lower Ball joints, new camber bolts, Drive shaft boots, and a buncha rattle cans painting everything........I' decided not to do the lift @ this time. So I've got it all back together. Cept now my master isn't pushing fluid out for the front line(the line Farthest from the booster). Was really tired @ that point and haven't had a chance to mess with it yet but QUESTION: Could this be where I need to mess with the LSVP? I have good pedal and the master is bled for the back(line closest to booster). I'm not getting anything for the front. I'm pretty uneducated concerning the LSVP but my uneducated guess tells me it's where my issue lies since I accidently hit the brake at some point in the game when the front lines were off
. Going out to the garage to mess with it now but any insight, or advice would be very appreciated from my fellow YOTA'ers. thanx guys
FYI:searched but didn't find
12-03-2012, 04:44 PM
#44
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K so I'm a dumbass>>just realized I only read the FIRST page of this thread lol my bad. Guess I got more Reading material and insight..like 50 more posts to read
Thanx guys!!! that was the fastest reply I've ever gotten
12-04-2012, 04:55 AM
#45
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LOL - some things, like brakes, bust ALL our rear ends!!
Yeah, looks to me like you have something *going on*. The master cylinder (MC) has a line coming out for rears and fronts, I believe. The LSPV simply takes some of the power going to the rear and "re channels" it to the front for different load conditions, I believe (check me if I'm wrong).
So, you SHOULD have pressure up front as well as to the rears, no matter if the LSPV is porked or not. I strongly suspect you need to remove the MC (just the 4 nuts!), and bench bleed it, then put it back on and bleed the system. That's what happened to me (like, 3 times) and doing that worked like a charm!
After bench bleeding the MC, you should have pressure to the rears, and also pressure to the fronts (bleed RR, LR, RF, LF, LSPV).....by opening a front bleeder and pressing the brakes, after you bleed the rears, you SHOULD have fluid coming out. If not....ouch. That could mean something really wrong with the MC, IMHO. But I bet you are air locked at the MC. I avoided taking mine off for hours, then finally did it in 1/2 hour, and it was WELL worth it!
I got 2 lines (12", maybe?), and bent them to fit from the fittings back into the MC reservoir, and literally "bench" bled it (or air can be trapped at the top of the piston, making the whole process useless). Search the topics for bench bleed!
Sorry you're having all this trouble, man! I mean, they do suck at first, but even when i was 100% noob it came together over a Sat. & Sun. You'll get it!!
Yeah, looks to me like you have something *going on*. The master cylinder (MC) has a line coming out for rears and fronts, I believe. The LSPV simply takes some of the power going to the rear and "re channels" it to the front for different load conditions, I believe (check me if I'm wrong).
So, you SHOULD have pressure up front as well as to the rears, no matter if the LSPV is porked or not. I strongly suspect you need to remove the MC (just the 4 nuts!), and bench bleed it, then put it back on and bleed the system. That's what happened to me (like, 3 times) and doing that worked like a charm!
After bench bleeding the MC, you should have pressure to the rears, and also pressure to the fronts (bleed RR, LR, RF, LF, LSPV).....by opening a front bleeder and pressing the brakes, after you bleed the rears, you SHOULD have fluid coming out. If not....ouch. That could mean something really wrong with the MC, IMHO. But I bet you are air locked at the MC. I avoided taking mine off for hours, then finally did it in 1/2 hour, and it was WELL worth it!
I got 2 lines (12", maybe?), and bent them to fit from the fittings back into the MC reservoir, and literally "bench" bled it (or air can be trapped at the top of the piston, making the whole process useless). Search the topics for bench bleed!
Sorry you're having all this trouble, man! I mean, they do suck at first, but even when i was 100% noob it came together over a Sat. & Sun. You'll get it!!
12-13-2012, 04:11 PM
#46
Registered User
Brakes!!!! It's not rocket surgery!!!
Thanx man..still no luck. Put a new bench-bled MC on today and Re bled everything just KNOWING I was good to go. But no such luck. 
:So now I'm thinking Booster but I'm really sick or buying parts..not another $200. I've done the bleed, bleed, bleed, bleed some more method and I'm Just frickin' frusssssstrated!!!. I mean like 128oz of fluid..$20 WORTH!!. 
k I'll quit whining now.
Like I said I suspect the booster. I Pulled the vacuum hose off and Clamped it with Vice grips(after putting 4 new screw down clamps on vac hose) and still no luck. I basically have no pedal is my problem but I cant figure out what's causing it. I CAN get the backs to lock up real good..(hope that looked good on the interstate lol) Adjusted my parking brake today. Rear shoes are rubbing good on stands. MC bench bled. Vacuum Good. No air in lines(I would assume of course) RR LR RF LF LSVP>saw on here somewhere about another possible bleeding point above rear axle(guess I'll go look for it). Anymore suggestions????? although I've read em all 12 frickin times already??? I'll settle for the one that works
:So now I'm thinking Booster but I'm really sick or buying parts..not another $200. I've done the bleed, bleed, bleed, bleed some more method and I'm Just frickin' frusssssstrated!!!. I mean like 128oz of fluid..$20 WORTH!!. k I'll quit whining now. Like I said I suspect the booster. I Pulled the vacuum hose off and Clamped it with Vice grips(after putting 4 new screw down clamps on vac hose) and still no luck. I basically have no pedal is my problem but I cant figure out what's causing it. I CAN get the backs to lock up real good..(hope that looked good on the interstate lol) Adjusted my parking brake today. Rear shoes are rubbing good on stands. MC bench bled. Vacuum Good. No air in lines(I would assume of course) RR LR RF LF LSVP>saw on here somewhere about another possible bleeding point above rear axle(guess I'll go look for it). Anymore suggestions????? although I've read em all 12 frickin times already??? I'll settle for the one that works
12-14-2012, 04:53 AM
#47
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Sorry it's sucking, Run4Mud!!! It is NEVER like this (that I have experienced, anyway, which is about 10x since I've had Toyotas). I am with you on it may be being caused by the booster, and I don't know how to tell for sure! There has to be a vacuum test for that. A real test. But the booster isn't the whole story; if dead, you should still have 'old fashioned non-power brakes' of a sort.
Are you SURE of which lines ARE getting good pressure? By "good", I mean a reasonable flow if you have a tube from wheel cylinder/caliper ffitting into the jar of fluid, pump 3z, hold down pedal and open the fitting 1/4 to 1/2 turn. If the tube is about empty, you should see it pass down it like liquid in a straw...no bubbles, good flow, fairly fast, and you will hear the 'weeeeeeee' from the MC as it goes down. Close up the fitting. So, let's say your rears are ok, so next step:
Then you bled your front, so do you get this same flow up there? The LSPV is only to "give a little bit of pressure" from the rears to the fronts if you load up the bed, and I've always bled it last. So it's not really a player in this process, but in actual braking. Yes, air in that line can = spongy brakes, but I don't think NO brakes up front!!! I think either a vac prob, booster prob, or something is in your lines (gunk); maybe calipers are boned? Suppose the MC could have a bad o ring on the piston for the fronts, maybe...
What happens when you bench bleed your MC? Does the fluid go from BOTH fittings back into the fill hole? Can you verify you get fluid out of both lines, looping? If not, THAT is a problem. For grins, you can pull the front line, cover hole, and have someone step on brake (messy, use towel below!) - then move finger to verify pressure. OR remove MC and try this - yes - on the bench. Rule OUT the MC as a problem. If you get flow this way, you SHOULD get SOME brakes up front!!!!! The booster does just that - a boost, not ALL the brakes. Think about it - your brakes work if engine (and booster) is off, just not as good.
Try to get some front brakes, man...the calipers aren't frozen or anything, right? It's been a while, so don't recall if they're new or not. It's physics, man - you WILL GET THIS. You WILL. You just have to get all science on it, and go over it (and over and over, lol), but it will get figured out!
MC, Booster, Lines < if ok, and bled, should have pressure! Then LSPV
Then - wheel cylinders/calipers < are they ok? Cyl. not leaking behind the brake shoes? Calipers not frozen? < if they are, you'll get JACK up front...if you have pressure at lines and no action, remove a caliper and check that the pistons are ok!
Man, I HAVE to see the end of this brake job! Good luck!
Are you SURE of which lines ARE getting good pressure? By "good", I mean a reasonable flow if you have a tube from wheel cylinder/caliper ffitting into the jar of fluid, pump 3z, hold down pedal and open the fitting 1/4 to 1/2 turn. If the tube is about empty, you should see it pass down it like liquid in a straw...no bubbles, good flow, fairly fast, and you will hear the 'weeeeeeee' from the MC as it goes down. Close up the fitting. So, let's say your rears are ok, so next step:
Then you bled your front, so do you get this same flow up there? The LSPV is only to "give a little bit of pressure" from the rears to the fronts if you load up the bed, and I've always bled it last. So it's not really a player in this process, but in actual braking. Yes, air in that line can = spongy brakes, but I don't think NO brakes up front!!! I think either a vac prob, booster prob, or something is in your lines (gunk); maybe calipers are boned? Suppose the MC could have a bad o ring on the piston for the fronts, maybe...
What happens when you bench bleed your MC? Does the fluid go from BOTH fittings back into the fill hole? Can you verify you get fluid out of both lines, looping? If not, THAT is a problem. For grins, you can pull the front line, cover hole, and have someone step on brake (messy, use towel below!) - then move finger to verify pressure. OR remove MC and try this - yes - on the bench. Rule OUT the MC as a problem. If you get flow this way, you SHOULD get SOME brakes up front!!!!! The booster does just that - a boost, not ALL the brakes. Think about it - your brakes work if engine (and booster) is off, just not as good.
Try to get some front brakes, man...the calipers aren't frozen or anything, right? It's been a while, so don't recall if they're new or not. It's physics, man - you WILL GET THIS. You WILL. You just have to get all science on it, and go over it (and over and over, lol), but it will get figured out!
MC, Booster, Lines < if ok, and bled, should have pressure! Then LSPV
Then - wheel cylinders/calipers < are they ok? Cyl. not leaking behind the brake shoes? Calipers not frozen? < if they are, you'll get JACK up front...if you have pressure at lines and no action, remove a caliper and check that the pistons are ok!
Man, I HAVE to see the end of this brake job! Good luck!
12-16-2012, 05:17 AM
#48
Registered User
Thanx for the vote of encouragement GuitarMike!!! Man, I'm right there with ya>>I GOTTA see the end of this brake job too!!!
Guess it's gonna be another day on them today..hopefully not another one in vain. The Calipers are new. New pads too. I've ran about 200oz of new fluid through. So I have great flow and zero gunk. The booster held pressure by hooking up my vacuum pump to it, and my vacuum line is good but I'll probably put a new one on anyway. New Master is bled correctly. I bought new front hoses and hard lines to redo everything from the MC to both the fronts yesterday. I've kinda been convinced there are probably bad connects along there somewhere.
I have a couple more tests to run on the booster. And I'm gonna check and see if maybe vac hose MIGHT have a one way valve in it. I hope so!!! And I hope it's Bad!!!LOL Probably the booster tho ..but not willing to cough up another $200 @ this point. Well guess I'd better get started
Guess it's gonna be another day on them today..hopefully not another one in vain. The Calipers are new. New pads too. I've ran about 200oz of new fluid through. So I have great flow and zero gunk. The booster held pressure by hooking up my vacuum pump to it, and my vacuum line is good but I'll probably put a new one on anyway. New Master is bled correctly. I bought new front hoses and hard lines to redo everything from the MC to both the fronts yesterday. I've kinda been convinced there are probably bad connects along there somewhere.
I have a couple more tests to run on the booster. And I'm gonna check and see if maybe vac hose MIGHT have a one way valve in it. I hope so!!! And I hope it's Bad!!!LOL Probably the booster tho ..but not willing to cough up another $200 @ this point. Well guess I'd better get started
07-24-2013, 06:53 PM
#49
Most demotivating thread... I just got done replacing the rear diff gasket and of course my brakes need to bled... I did it for about and hour and there was still plenty of air coming out, and from what it sounds like I'm in for alot more... YAY
07-27-2013, 08:44 AM
#51
I got sick of bleeding breaks so my buddy and I split a Motive power bleeder. You can find them with a quick search for Motive products. But it's pretty simple. They just take a pump sprayer and put a pressure gauge on it. Then you need an adapter for your master cylinder. They sell all kinda. Buy it from them it's nice quality aluminum. Put said cap over your master cylinder fill sprayer with break fluid and bring up to recommended psi. Reach down open bleeder valve up with catch bottle hooked up and watch the magic happen. Jus make sure you catch bottle doesn't over flow and your sprayer doesn't run dry. Do all 4 corners one at a time and then go back and check them just for grins. This will eliminate air in the lines as a suspect.
This also works great for clutch master cylinders. Hope this helps. You could easily make the sprayer set up yourself. But it is definitely worth buying their adapters. Nice quality aluminum.
This also works great for clutch master cylinders. Hope this helps. You could easily make the sprayer set up yourself. But it is definitely worth buying their adapters. Nice quality aluminum.
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