sided00r

Truck has been running great. Started up cold morning, fast idle, normal, then it choked on something, sputtered a few secs, then recovered, back to fast idle, then it choked again, sputtered, I kicked the gas, no response, it died. Wont' start back up. Like it's turning over but not firing. So many possible problems, hoped anyone might be able to list or narrow down.

Had tune up maybe 2 weeks ago except the fuel filter; when changing that out today, we looked at the little round white plastic clamp piece of the oil pressure sensor that is just under the oil filter...anyway it fell off when we pointed at it, there's not enough wire to splice it back on...not sure if we can pull it long enough to reach and just stick the remaining wire back in that clamp?

There have been rodents in this truck's vicinity, and there were peanut shells under the air filter (truck came from Louisiana years ago), however, everything save one bulb has been working pretty fine. Always starts faithfully and runs steady, and is even trying hard to now.

Have a volt ohm meter, not sure how to use it on wires...almost sounds like everything should always read 12v?. Just about pulled the bed off today hearing it was easy to get at the fuel pump that way, but buddies are worried about messing with the wires in and around, so they want to drop the (half full) tank, in the driveway instead, tomorrow, although I do not have a replacement fuel pump handy and last i read this is a Toyota only item???. None of us really think we are hearing the fuel pump come on tho. We have minimal tools, using tree rounds as jack stands. Picked up a 'circuit opening relay?' from pickn pull but havent' swapped it out to test yet. The little door inside the air filter housing swings freely as long as you don't get your pliers stuck in it. That's as far as I got with that.

Truck has been running without issue. One bulb seems to be popping, the 'cruise control' on this 5spd has been retired by the previous owner tho still hanging there...I think it's the catalytic that gives a horrid smell under load, esp 4wd, but haven't installed the new one yet...that O2 sensor was hanging on the exhaust at some point, there is rust especially in the lower hemisphere, but really I don't think there are any particularly symptomatic clue issues I can point to, and had zero warning before this failure, thank god it happened in my driveway though. Seems something in the electronic fuel system gave out that morning, and damn I'm trying to read how to use the vom but I don't have time or know how to learn about it all this week end? There's only a few hours of daylight, no shop.

It could be SO many things, and I could actually really really use this truck back in action 4 am Monday morning or asap at least. Any shortcuts and things I don't have to buy to troubleshoot, I would be soooo grateful for...Not anywhere near the 'tow it in to a shop' pay scale...Help?

=========
'94 DLX 2.4l Fremont CA

92dlxman

if a vom is the same thing as a multimeter, they are quite easy to use. when you need to check resistance, it is measured in ohms, flip your meter to the horshoe lookin symbol. it should make no noise when you put the leads together. if it does you may be on the wrong horshoe(continuity)

when checking voltage, set the meter to voltsDC

cake and pie

sided00r

aw come on, there's more to it than that I know. That much i already figured, but for example resistance is measured with no power. ok i'll buy that - I'm trying to follow the guy's instructions here with the cube I picked up, I don't get what to put the probes to. Do I have to get the casing off somehow and find these cryptic locations at the breadboard level??
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ORelayLocation

chrisorbics

Start with the basics. Ignition, fuel, air, both in and out.

Check for spark. First from between coil and distributer then to each individual cylinder

If you have that give it a shot of starting fluid. You might have to spray it directly in the throttle body and then connect the air intake quickly. If it fire and then shuts off then you have a fuel problem. If it does not fire then you may have an air problem. Intake or exhaust. I would suspect the cat because they get clogged. If you have a california emissions package you should have an o2 sensor before the cat which you could take off. Now if it fires you know you need to replace the cat or knock the core out with a broom handle. Make sure you get it all out. Also if this is the case sometime the guts of the cat actually fall apart and clog the muffler. You would know by the sound of the exhaust if this was the problem usually. It would make a sort of hissing sound and you can feel that there is not much exhaust coming out the tail pipe.

See where that gets you.

sided00r

If we don't hear the fuel pump come on at any time, including with the 'jumper test' does that indicate the pump died or could be anything in between?

chrisorbics

Hi, the pump is probably shot. If you pull it out make sure you test the power wire to the pump for 12 volts.

I would still spray some starting fluid in just to see if it fires.

sidebarr7

pump or gas filter,

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

The table on the page is the connector pin layout of the CO relay, shows which pin is which. You put the probes on the two pins as shown in the test table. So to measure the STA - E1 resistance, you put one probe on the STA pin (lower right hand corner with the Black w/ White stripe wire) and the other probe on the E1 pin (upper right pin with the White w/ Black stripe wire). The resistance should read something between 17 and 25 ohms.

sided00r

4crawler, thank you, now i get the probe concept. Before I go any further with any of this, I need to say, a couple of things.

a) is that your page 4crawler?!! 4crawler's page points out the little factoid that there's more than one little relay cube behind the glove box.

b) Chances are real good only one of them is a circuit opening relay.

c) Never let just anyone help you with your electrical problems while you are away at work.

d) The circuit opening relay is part number(s) as shown here 85910-35010 056700-8653 (thank you youngun)
http://www.dragtimes.com/parts/1989-...115534419.html On some of the other relays, they say 'Relay'. On this one, though, is printed 'Circuit Opening Relay'. Important point!

e) Swapping out a ???headlight reminder cube??? wont' help a person diagnose a fuel delivery system. Especially because it was probably good anyway and will interfere with trying to hear if a fuel pump is buzzing.

So on my truck, the one that was hard to thwack with a screwdriver as I was strangely advised to do, was the one I should have been thwacking, and it's one of the ones bolted behind the metal wall, a bit hard to get at, subject to rain, moisture, dust, rust, corrosion, et. al., and hasn't been ohm'd, but one from the scrapyard has and reads just a hair high. When all of this is done, I will give one a good thwacking.

With help yesterday somebody 'checked for spark', the truck's fuel tank was dropped, the pump connected to the battery and pronounced functional, tank refilled and mounted...the scrapyard COR was plugged in temporarily and someone (who might have been smoking a lot??) announced that the test light was coming on now at the fuel pump end of the wire and that it hadn't before. When cross examined today though, he couldn't testify which wires he was test-lighting, since 'there was a whole bundle of 'em', but it wasn't 'the blue one'. Because all put back together, it still won't fire, with the other COR plugged in.

lol [sigh] got to laugh to keep from crying. Need this car running. I will be back to this when daylight gets on my side. I will see what chris said the 'starting fluid' thing shows me, and I can probly change the cat myself. Fuel filter was changed, but while doing so the wire connector broke off the oil pressure sensor. Should the truck still theoretically be able to run normal till I get to that?

sided00r

Also going back to the AFM, I was told to start there too, but all I knew to do was check that the door was swinging. And we tried the 'jumper test' but maybe we didn't do it right. What else can I do with the AFM?

And do I maybe need to start to worry on 'cold start injectors' etc?

Is there a picture of the diagnostic terminals without all the grease anywhere?, to have a mental image of where to probe, to see if there's a blinky error code?

sided00r

The AFM, when the door moves, the resistance rises as described; every time it passes somewhere near 200, though, it reads 0.L passing through, and then climbs again up above 200. I repeated this a dozen times and it reads the same way. Could this be the trouble???

I got the paper clip tests all working how they should, everything checks out, I put a stethoscope to my original COR, it clicks like once when starting, twice when turning key back off. Its ohms read better than the junkyard one and there isn't any corrosion visible on it externally.

I have pulled fuses and disconnected the battery too, but afterwards I have tried to start the engine again. Then now I checked for an engine error code. I lost the page right now, but all I get is relatively rapid (approx 2 flash per second) steady blinking check engine light. I think that means no error, but since I disconnected all the EFI fuses etc., does the error remain 'wiped out' if there was one?

There's also 12.1 V in the battery, and 11.4 on I think it was the B+ terminal at the COR

Someone else said something about other thing it could be is fuel pressure something part. Regulator?? Where is this part, accessible?

sided00r

So I just sprayed Motomaster Quick Start into the air intake door and it fired. Sounded nice there for a sec. Then kaput. Real confused.

In brief:
circuit opening relay seems ok, voltage to it ok
fuel pump was running alone
voltage to fuel pump has not been adequately tested
AFM flapper skips a beat in resistance @ 200, checks infinity, then continues climbing with door swing
error code light flash check is just steady blink blink blink blink blink blink blink blink @ 2bps
car WILL START with a sniff of starting fluid in the air intake, then dies (only thing successful so far)

I guess I will have to figure out how to find the fuel pump wire to check for voltage there myself to be sure of that...

I don't see how this could possibly be cat related, though. (I know that is bad, just trying to figure out how to drill through the rust and what bolt size to mount the magnaflow with, and whether i need any glue on the gasket rings.)

I went and got the only AFM around in my income bracket at the scrapyard, but it's off a V6, has a round air filter assembly, all different, and one of the female module connectors near the middle on the scrapyard truck was blank, unlike this here 22re which has 7 pins and receptacles in a row. The part numbers are different, but they look pretty damn close. Dunno if I should just return it. 22250-65010 from the V6, mine is 22250-35050, or if maybe it might do me some good. Same with i also got at least most of a throttle sensor off that truck...

sided00r

Does this guy know what he's talking about? Because I have 0 volts at port 1 of the main EFI relay.
http://www.justanswer.com/toyota/1a6...jump-b-fp.html

when this saga is over i'm going back to carbureted.

'86 corolla runs fine

pffft

92dlxman

DONT put the v6 afm on. it sounds like your digging deeper than you need to at this point, unless you've discovered things and not posted them.
ke
fuel pump test= with all wires connected, no jumpers no nothing, key in the position it would be on if the truck were started and running, manually push the flapper in the afm. hear the pump?

yes? then it may be a pressure problem if you have tested ignition and know your motor has compression.
Simple pressure test: after attempting to start, crack the bolt that secures the cold start injector line. did fuel spray in your eye?
Yes? your problem may be computer/ electrical related. verify proper ground points on motor. verify continuity from ignitor wires to ecm. all will have a specific pin at the computer but ONE. it goes to the diag. port's little friend that says IG- on it
No? fuel pump, regulator, or filter
No? (back to simple pump test)
bad afm, bad pump, cor, or wiring in-between
it sounds like it is a fuel delivery issue. as a last resort, after all free testing is done, a new (to you, brand new they are incredibly costly) ignitor may be in your future. yes it sits on the coil, and even controls ignition, but it comunicates info back to the ecu to allow fuel delivery.

a book will have afm tests in it. good luck

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Easy fuel pump/pressure regulator test is to insert the fuel pump test jumper, turn on the ignition and you should hear the pump running in the passenger rear wheel well. Then up front, you should hear the pressure regulator "hissing", sounds kind of like air leaking out of a punctured tire. Then, if you have a hand vacuum pump, pull the vacuum line off the regulator (located on the back of the fuel rail):


(Left most green arrow) and connect that to the vacuum pump and pull a vacuum on the FPR and you should hear the hissing sound change as the vacuum changes. More vacuum = lower fuel pressure.

And the other thing to check is the injector wire splices, that is what ties the injectors to the factory wiring harness to supply power and ground to the injectors. Bad splice = no injectors running = no fuel into the engine:



Bad splice:

sided00r

thanks, I'm listening, this will all take me a while.

binky_rutledge

Didn't read enough ignore this post.... Sorry

sided00r

so...the car was in better shape before i started trying to fix it. While I was waiting for the PB Blaster to help me get the bed off so I could get at things better, I started jamming the voltmeter into the ECM according to the 'Troubleshooting with Volt Ohmmeter" - Engine - MFI System pages. I couldn't do them all, and I didn't get good readings from the throttle valve open/closed part or the measuring plate open/closed parts, or the ignition switch start position either for that matter. Despite that, I put the little computer back in its wall there, went and banged some more bolts loose, it got dark, kids brought me another EFI relay to try and also i wanted to do the check engine light jumper since I hoped it was just a bad paper clip thing why my fuel tank won't power up
AND THEN
now the starter sounds like hell, the circuit opening relay is buzz-clicking like a big ol bug stuck between the windows, and i have trouble codes 13 and 14.

It happened sort of in that order.

Yesterday I only went around identifying parts and finding the main grounds and cleaning them up. I had no ground between the engine hook and firewall, a wire was hanging touching the hook but the old one was cut off at the nut. (This did get a rebuild put in once). So I put that how I thought it should be. The ignition coil thing (one that attatches to the distributor) had the only sign of corrosion I could find, just a wee 2mm spot, I scrubbed that with a wire brush. I had also religiously tried starting it yesterday and thought the starter was sounding more tinny and weak, albeit normal enough given the circumstances, been hooking up a battery trickle maintainer overnight.

I don't think I did anything else that would deserve this, and i know you guys have lives, but again, if there's any shortcut to fix what i broke now, I have five thousand internet/manual/forum pages printed says you guys might know better. ?

I've written off trying to get to work at this point.

sided00r

Hey, is there another part of this I am not understanding, this doesn't match the wiring diagram I'm looking at, the White and White-Red are split to the injectors, but it doesn't show Blue or Yellow going in.
I'm trying to get a handle on the wiring, up under my dash, and down under the pass. seat to the pump and back to (just before) the lights, the wiring looks clean, dry, unmolested, and I don't want to undo a pile of stuff for nothing. So I want to concentrate under the hood, and I'm starting to figure out how to use the map that looks like this to get around. (Anywhere but the injectors, please! how get in there???)

anyway this pic, no blue, no yellow


[IMG]file:///d:/temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

You may have the later style engine w/o the resistor, so likely the wire colors are different. But the idea is still the same, 1 power connection has to get to 4 separate wires to 4 separate injectors and then 4 wires from the 4 injectors joint into 2 then into 1 and then back to 2 wires at the ECU.