03+ 4Runner/GX470, & 05+ Tacomas 4th gen 4Runners & 5th gen trucks

Toyota Floormat Recall Information

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-03-2010 | 03:39 PM
  #21  
rdharper's Avatar
Contributing Member
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
From: Morgan Hill, Ca
I was specifically asking about how keyless systems work, not what one should do. In the meantime (from the RidgelineOwners forum) that the start/stop button does, in fact, shut down the engine... depressing the button for several seconds shuts down the engine. Further, on a Hybrid such as the Highlander, the start/stop buttun shuts down only the gas engine, leaving you with brakes and steering since they are electrically driven.
Old 02-03-2010 | 05:31 PM
  #22  
ToyoTech559's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,762
Likes: 1
oh i would have to look it up. everyone that owns a car with that much electroics in it should read the owners manual. if not, they its the owners lack of knowledge that gets them in trouble. i bet 99% of the owners that have smart key entry dont even know how to start the car if the remote batteries dies
Old 02-03-2010 | 06:49 PM
  #23  
ThePretender's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Start/Stop Button - back to ACC mode

Originally Posted by rdharper
Anyone out there have a vehicle with keyless entry and the big start/stop button?

Curious here, about how the keyless entry with the start/stop buttons work.

Suppose you have an "emergency" where you are accelerating without pedal control, and the brakes don't provide enough stopping power... granted a real hypothetical.

You are traveling in a straight line, nobody behind you. So you pull over to the slow lane and want to cut the power. Can you do that? Does the start/stop button cut the engine? Just curious here.
Yes, I have a 2004 Prius as my daily driver. If you hold down the Start/Stop button for 3 seconds (continuously), the car returns to ACC mode. The steering and brakes still work in ACC mode. Hopefully, you're able to coast to a shoulder.

I was hoping for new floormats since I need them badly. But, it looks like no dice.

Just a really unfortunate situation for Toyota. I'm really not sure what to think of all of this recall stuff. This could really happen to any auto manufacturer in America - they tend to use the same parts suppliers.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen the Tundras and Sequoias addressed first since I suspect they would do the most damage if they hit other cars, people, etc. Oh well . . .

Steve.
Old 02-04-2010 | 06:46 AM
  #24  
rdharper's Avatar
Contributing Member
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
From: Morgan Hill, Ca
I haven't seen Lexus involved in all of this. Remember the Cop with 3 passengers that was driving a rental Lexus... he and 3 passengers were killed in a high speed accident. This was several months ago. That accident was a precipitating factor in all of the attention on "sudden acceleration". One of the passengers had the time to place a 911 call... which is puzzling as it is hard to believe that a California cop in good health wouldn't know how to shut down the Lexus.

If he'd never driven the Lexus before, it is possible that he didn't know that he could press and hold the start/stop button for 3 seconds. Maybe he didn't know the Lexus has a rev limiter, so he didn't want to put the vehicle in neutral as he thought it would blow the engine... and things just got out of control.... dunno.

Anyway, did the Lexus use the CTS system?
Old 02-04-2010 | 07:35 AM
  #25  
stormin94's Avatar
Contributing Member
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 4
From: Lake County, CA/Sacramento
It gives new Toyota owners an excuse for speeding.

I'm not sure it would be an issue with the older ones, like my 94. It doesn't have enough power to even notice the throttle stuck wide open, just as long as it wasn't in 1st gear or something. That's what Toyota gets for making powerful vehicles now. lol
Old 02-04-2010 | 11:22 AM
  #26  
ThePretender's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Originally Posted by rdharper
I haven't seen Lexus involved in all of this. Remember the Cop with 3 passengers that was driving a rental Lexus... he and 3 passengers were killed in a high speed accident. This was several months ago. That accident was a precipitating factor in all of the attention on "sudden acceleration". One of the passengers had the time to place a 911 call... which is puzzling as it is hard to believe that a California cop in good health wouldn't know how to shut down the Lexus.

If he'd never driven the Lexus before, it is possible that he didn't know that he could press and hold the start/stop button for 3 seconds. Maybe he didn't know the Lexus has a rev limiter, so he didn't want to put the vehicle in neutral as he thought it would blow the engine... and things just got out of control.... dunno.

Anyway, did the Lexus use the CTS system?
Most of the Lexus models are made in the motherland (Japan) and supposedly use different parts. Toyota issued a statement on the CTS parts not being used in the Japan models.

Like I mentioned above, I am still not sure what to make out of all of this hoopla. It is starting to look like a witch hunt. Maybe, deservedly so. Hopefully, the truth comes out some time. At this time, I suspect some problem with the drive-by-wire programming. A stuck floormat/foot pedal/throttle cable really doesn't explain a 'sudden acceleration'. I am on the Priuschat.com forum. There were some complaints on that board about the cars making slight moves to the right or left while traveling at fwy speeds. It all sounds like some kind of drive-by-wire glitch. There were a couple of recalls that called for the reflashing of the ECU. I had those done, so I never experienced any of the left/right moves.

Oh yes, and as far as starting a Prius if the remote battery is dead. There is a small key that comes out of the key (the big block remote/key) that you can use to unlock the car door. Then, you push the remote/key into the dash into the slot to the right of the steering wheel.

Steve.
Old 02-07-2010 | 10:07 AM
  #27  
edwinb4x4's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: SJ-California
mat/padal issue??

I for one is also not sure about the 'Pedal Sticking" reason. The amount of force to get it stuck does not add up. Like ThePretender, I'm also leaning towards the "drive by wire" glitch but somehow in cobination with something else made by CTS. Since the Denso is not showing a problem (yet) - this leads me to believe they found something that sent shivers to their spine - thus the massive recall using the "mat/padal" issue.
Old 02-07-2010 | 02:35 PM
  #28  
ToyoTech559's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,762
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by ThePretender
Oh yes, and as far as starting a Prius if the remote battery is dead. There is a small key that comes out of the key (the big block remote/key) that you can use to unlock the car door. Then, you push the remote/key into the dash into the slot to the right of the steering wheel.

Steve.
you know this because your on a prius forum which is a plus for any owner that owns a prius, you learn so much about your car. you are correct but only the prius has the slot for the key. im more talking about those who have smart key and doesnt have a slot which is all toyota and lexus models with smart key but the prius
Old 02-07-2010 | 07:30 PM
  #29  
ThePretender's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Thank you for the info!

Originally Posted by ToyoTech559
you know this because your on a prius forum which is a plus for any owner that owns a prius, you learn so much about your car. you are correct but only the prius has the slot for the key. im more talking about those who have smart key and doesnt have a slot which is all toyota and lexus models with smart key but the prius
I had no idea - didn't realize I was lucky enough to be blessed with a dash-slot. I don't have the Smart-Entry-Smart-Start. I bought Sparky (the Prius) used from a friend of mine that quit at Toyota. He had it for 6 mths as his lease car, it had 9,800 miles on it and I paid just over $17K out the door back in Aug of '04. The original plan was to toy with it for a couple of months and then sell it, but we realized that our gasoline bill went from around $360 to $120 a month (it was paying for itself even when gas was $2.50 a gallon), and we kind of got attached to it. So, we kept it. We've since put 70K miles on it and it saves us money every month on our Chevron bill.

I'd swear Lexus had to do that Smart-Entry-Smart-Start option so women wouldn't mess up their nails if they were still wet from the salon! My wife had the RX300 and it had all kinds of hidden compartments in the console and rear cargo area. Chick car!

Last week, I switched to using the 4Runner as a daily driver instead of the Prius due to all of this recall hoopla. Nothing to do with having lost faith in Toyota quality. I heard that the insurance companies were considering not covering accidents involving Toyota recall models. It got me thinking that it is just a matter of time before we see folks trying to capitalize on this Toyota recall situation by trying to get rear-ended by one of the recall models. I don't need anyone getting in front of me and trying to force an accident just because they want a payday from Toyota. So, I'll drive the 4Runner for now, I don't care to go through any hassles like that.

I'm still wondering what Toyota is going to do with our recall - the Prius is in the first group of recalls, not the current 8 models that are being addressed.

I wonder how much the recall fallout will change Toyota's plans to launch a Prius brand. Bad timing.

Steve.
Old 02-08-2010 | 04:22 PM
  #30  
ToyoTech559's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,762
Likes: 1
havent heard anything bout the prius and pedal recall. but i have heard a braking issue with the 2010 prius but they are still working if it is an issue or not

for your wifes without the dash slot. if the battery ever dies. take the remote and hold it as close as you can in front of the button, with your finger inbetween the button and remote. press the start and the car will start

Last edited by ToyoTech559; 02-08-2010 at 04:23 PM.
Old 02-11-2010 | 10:06 AM
  #31  
edwinb4x4's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: SJ-California
Toyota - Drive by wire issue

comment from a design engineer:

Toyota Prius and Camry, drive-by-wire, and our failure to learn from experience...

I see from the morning news that Toyota's adventure into the world of embedded software is going badly. The company's second attempt to find a quick fix for unintended acceleration in its conventionally-powered vehicles is barely underway, and already evidence is emerging that the underlying problem is likely in the engine controller, not in the pedal mechanical assembly. And now we hear from Japan that the Prius, Toyota's golden child, has a problem with its brake-by-wire control system.

One has to recall Audi, which decades ago accidentally introduced drive-by-wire with its advanced cruise control on the Audi 5000. The cars were allegedly subject to spontaneous acceleration. The company blamed the problem on operator error. At the time, I was told that researchers at another European high-end auto company had uncovered a problem in Audi's engine-control firmware and reproduced the acceleration without requiring a driver to mistake the gas pedal for the brake. But in the ensuing liability litigation, all hope was lost of diagnosing the actual problem and documenting it so that the rest of the real-time software community could avoid it.

The reason all this came to mind this morning was actually not the newspapers, but a panel I attended yesterday at DesignCon. The subject was achieving quality closure. But the issue of software sat like an elephant in the corner of the room, awaiting notice. One of the panelists—I believe it was Design Rivers president Camille Kokozaki—pointed out that perhaps the most serious quality problem in IC designs now is not quality closure on the hardware, but the integrity of the firmware and software that will run on the chip. There simply is no systematic approach to ensuring the quality of an integrated hardware/software system.

And this is a tragedy. Thirty years ago, work was well under way on the problem of formally proving software correctness. One company had designed a completely deterministic microprocessor—no interrupts, no indirect addressing—that made it possible to mathematically prove all of the possible trajectories of a code set. And computer scientists such as Edsger Dijkstra were making strides in methodology to create formally proven software. But along came C, UNIX, and the cult of the bemused hobby programmer, and the entire notion of formal correctness vanished under a smokescreen of hacking.

So now, after decades invested in metrics-driven verification, formal verification, and methodology management, we find that our chips don't work as expected because the software is still being "verified" by feeding it test cases until the schedule expires. And we find that our cars run into things for the same reason, and the press of course will blame the problem on "electronics."

And once again, as in Audi's day, it is safe to conclude that whatever accurate diagnostic work actually gets done on the Toyota problems will be wrapped up in a gag order as part of a class-action settlement, so that no one in the industry can benefit from what Toyota engineers did or did not learn from the problem. That way we can repeat the situation with the next generation of software-governed systems, a new set of executives can avoid blame for the tragedies, and a new set of lawyers can make their fortunes off the resulting litigation.

The only parties in this little comedy that have an interest in actually improving the state of the art are the engineers, who won't be consulted, and the victims, who will be silenced by the lawyers. How much better for everyone if it were a principle of civil law that when it is found that damage has been inflicted by a failure, all of the diagnostic information determined by the vendor and by independent parties must be placed in the public domain, and may not be used to assess or assign damages. Such a notion might somewhat restrict the income opportunities of litigators, but it would unquestionably assist the engineering community in learning from our mistakes.
Related entries in: Embedded Systems | SOC (System on a chip) | Verification |
Old 02-11-2010 | 12:57 PM
  #32  
rdharper's Avatar
Contributing Member
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
From: Morgan Hill, Ca
Can't disagree with any of that, although I'd add the following.

There is no reason a fail-safe button can't be added, other than it might affect concern for the possibility of affecting sales. Of course that would't help in the Prius 2010 case, which is apparently a case of Toyota trying to squeeze every bit of energy out of the regenerative braking system, and thus cutting some timing events too close to cover 6-sigma combinations of parts.

Lastly, there is an intrinsic problem built into all manufacturing systems... ie: the fact that final test and reliability testing have a value that is hard to measure by the bean counters. This eventally leads to cuts which can cost major bucks and sometimes lives.

I also think there are some critical functions which would benefit from redundency... much the same as is done in the airplane industry.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MO transplant
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
10
04-23-2023 11:58 AM
bigjstang
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
20
08-25-2021 12:41 AM
GreatLakesGuy
The Classifieds GraveYard
8
09-04-2015 09:27 AM
nick b
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
4
07-11-2015 04:38 AM



Quick Reply: Toyota Floormat Recall Information



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:23 PM.