If any of you live in the rust belt where salt is put on your roads in the winter, you will know that Toyota steel is extremely cheap and rusts very easily. Every Toyota truck I have owned has had extensive rust issues and all off them had frame rot except the 94 4Runner which the frame is fine (For now). The new Taco's seem cheaply made. They went from a fully boxed frame to a C-channel. C-channel is cheap to make and that is the reason why they went that route. Toyota makes more of a profit this way. In the end Toyota is just like every big company out there, make it cheap, make it fast and make a huge profit. The days are gone in making anything of quality anymore that is mass produced.

James

 

This is one thing that I have little experience with - I have never lived in a place where they put a ridiculous amount of salt on the roads.

I've seen my fair share of it in Arkansas, especially the last two winters with all of the ice storms, but my Toyota's have all done well with it. Granted, I haven't had a Toyota longer than 2.5 years in my entire life.

Fink

 

They use mag chloride and salt here in Colorado...guess im crazy but I wash mine and my moms trucks even in the winter just to get the salt and mag off.

 

With ya on everything there except "you will know that Toyota steel is extremely cheap and rusts very easily".

My 88 seems all but impervious to rust(surface rust is minimal even after many many years of being left unpainted). That's every where from the frame to the cab and bed. I'm in the process of fully restoring it frame, suspension and all. And nowhere has there been any but the smallest traces of rust on it. Basically what I'm saying is it's taken no more than a wire brush to restore any of it to the point that it could be primed/painted and called good as new.(Well that, and a whole lot of whacking, bending, cutting, reshaping, welding...but that's another story.)

Granted, I live in Oregon where we do NOT salt our roads(we use mostly sand/gravel or nothing instead). It does rain it's fair share in the part I live(NW OR). And I've seen lots of other steel of all types lay out and rust in it in the last 35 years for comparison. So to say that Toyota steel is inferior is incredibly hard for me to believe. I've seen nothing to suggest that, and in fact much that suggests quite the opposite.

Does it mean I would buy anything they made after 95? NEVER! Like I've said before...

 

I think I own my last Toyota. As others have described, the newest ones don't feel like a Toyota any more and lack the things that brought me to the brand in the first place. Here's what I've owned and my impressions:

1987 Xtra Cab SR5 (22R-E)
Great truck, Japanese-built, fully boxed frame, reliable IFS.

Downsides: WEAK as hell engine. I couldn't do "truck things" very well--hauling and towing. It had too little power empty to comfortably climb grades. Had it been a turbo (22R-TE) I might have kept it. So I sold it for a V6.

1994 Xtra Cab SR5 V6 (3VZ-E)
Very, very good. Japanese-built, Fully boxed frame, reliable IFS, and minus the HG recall (which Toyota took care of) the engine and drivetrain was 100% reliable. The 3VZ-E is not powerful or fuel efficient, but it's smooth and quiet and reliable. You could have licked the engine at 166K and not gotten a spot of grease on your tongue. The full set of gauges (tach, speedo, water temp, fuel, oil pressure and voltmeter) was fully appreciated and the 7-way adjustable Sports seats are *THE* best Toyota seats ever, beat only by the 8-way turbo Supra seats.

Downsides: Recirculating ball steering required idler arm replacement often to keep the steering tight (same as the '87). If this truck had the 3.4 DOHC V6 (5VZ-FE) or better yet a diesel, it would have been the best truck ever.

2000 4Runner SR5 V6 (5VZ-FE)
Amazing. Japanese-built (all 4Runners are), fully boxed frame (unlike the frames manufactured by Dana Corp for the Tacoma), excellent excellent excellent suspension. It's my first 4WD with the 5-link coil rear and I don't think I could go back to leafs. It's smooth and its lack of axle wrap is noticed every time I shift (manual trans), take off from a stop sign or on the trail. The coil spring over shock IFS is great, rack and pinion has a great feel at 113,000 miles and has not required the maintenance of the older design, the 3.4 V6 is a great engine and the supercharger is a nice option, factory e-locker is great.

Downsides: The beginning of the cheapening--it's missing the full set of gauges from my '94 truck, the sport seats are lacking the bolster adjustment from my previous truck, have thinner fabric that looks cheaper and overall, while still a good seat, it's not excellent like my '94. Sound deadening isn't as good as the '94. Aside from these small nit-pick things, the engine, e-locker, redesigned suspension and steering improves upon the 1994 truck I had, making it my best Toyota yet.

The newest trucks seem to have excellent drivetrains--the 4.0 makes within 20% as much power as a supercharged 3.4 thanks to variable valve timing and more displacement but gets similar or better mileage. But the American built Toyotas lack the attention to detail that their Japanese counterparts have. Frames built by Dana Corporation are not nearly as good as the Japanese Toyota frames. Would I buy a new Toyota? Not sure, I think they are still "good" but not "excellent" like they used to be. I climb in a new truck and it feels nothing like my '87, '94 and '00, they feel cheap, I dislike the appearance of the new Tacomas and 5th gen 4Runners, I lament the lack of a transfer case lever. Quite frankly Toyota does not make anything that appeals to me anymore, but that's my opinion. I want a modern version of my 2000 4Runner--same beautiful body and underpinnings, my good 'ol 5-speed manual transmission, e-locker, the new VVTi V6, V8 or small turbodiesel under the hood, cylinder shutdown for improved mpg, manual transfer case lever and an updated interior.

 

crazy thread. story time:

i grew up in a 91 ex.cab 22re 4x4. my father traded his cherokee for it new because he wanted a small pickup that could still haul family. he loved that little truck but sold it in 98 after having zero problems despite pulling out fullsize trucks everytime we went to the mountains. he wanted a bigger truck and bought a dodge.

when my girl got pregnant in 09 i sold my fullsize (04 silverado) to buy a 92 ex. cab 22re 4x4 and a car for her. i loved that little truck. it was an amazing little piece of machinery that ran phenominal considering the hell i put it through. i know that truck inside out and upside down from tinkering with it. i invested a lot of money into it with the goal of having it run as it did new. of the thousands spent, all it really needed was the timing chain and usual maintenance like plugs, wires, cap, rotor, oil

i 3 weeks ago decided it was selfish, to spend that money on something that my now 2year old son cant safely ride in (think carseat on jumpseat with non-locking restraints) and bought my new "mini-van" as i refered to it. 08 base model v6 4x4 6-speed access cab. after 3 wheeling trips (sand, rock, mud, and snow) i cant be happier. it does great, not to mention we can do it in the summer with working a/c. and oh, i forgot to say it has 75,000 miles on it. no flaw but i am scared of the 6-speed by some posts i've read

i did scrape on some obstacles my 92 with 31's didn't, this ones on stocks. no the approach/ departure angles aren't as good, (though i only got decent ones on my 92 by removing the rear bumper and spare, and avoiding the tow hook when possible as it did hang me up before

moral of the story is: buy what fits at the time. im 23 years old and cant justify keeping the old rig while making payments on the new, safe, and more reliable (im a huge 22re fan but 220,000 vs 75,000 miles, do the math). when im comfortable again, i WILL have another old pickup to tinker with. for now, i guess ill settle with a smooth, accurate ride, more articulate suspension, what feels like a limited slip rear (still not sure), and not having to check oil once a week. all with my boy snug and smiling in the backseat

which truck is better? for me, the ol 92 was cheaper, and meant a lot to me as it was my first real truck, (mom bought me the chevy when i was 15) i was proud i made it run as well as it did, and felt it made a statement against popular culture that thinks you dont own a real car unless your making payments on it. for me, a better truck.

the new one fits the family, and ya know what, im ok with having the mini-van family tote-a-bility in a package that can still whoop ass on the trail. i dare you to bring an older rig head to head with it. stock for stock. just as long as it doesn't get scratched

 

I have a '93 4wd pickup and a 2008 4wd 4runner. 4runner is a very nice vehicle. I think it is the most well made vehicle I have ever owned. The 93 pickup is 20 years old with more than 200k miles. It still runs and gets 22-25mpg. What's amazing is all the gauges, radio, etc. work perfect. It does not have much power, rattles, and not safe by today's standards but it is my daily driver (drive about 550 miles a week) and doesn't fuss much. That being said I am about to replace it.

 

Gret thread, really good info you guys put here. i appreciate very much.
__________________
85 corolla junked
87 Supra sold
02 sequoia sold
87 4runner

 

Lots of talk can back and forth about quality I own a 1980 yota and now a 2010 Tacoma (as of this past Christmas) and I love them both each has its faults. If they wanted to go back to basics then its back to the 4 banger and 4 speed manual. But as it was said before they have catered to the public. The bodies rusted drive trains went forever. We can go back and forth about what is and what is not. Bottom line is they control their own destiny and Time will tell they do however do many things that I like
1.) they are not run by over paid unions
2.) they never called on us to bail them out
3.) They still are one of the best (if not THEE best) makers on the market
4.) The beat a Ford Dodge and Chevy in the class of trucks that Tacoma's and Tundras thrive in (no one comes close)
5.) and 20 years ago no one knew what a Toyota was now everyone wants one and I myself would not own ANYTHING else BUT a Yota. They are the only one that has never ever let me down.

 

i dont got a 05+ yota but i have owned an 87, 92, and 98 tacoma and in regards to quality so far it seems like its still there. I have been looking into buying an FJ Cruiser for the wife and they still seem super high quality compared to the other brand of vehicles.

We test drove a 2008 4runner and to me it felt like a mini van just like jeep did with its grand cherokee that thing is a mini van with a bigger engine now and it cant off road like it use to. Toyota is going that route with the 4runner, they are lower to the ground and focusing in getting the most comfortable ride they can by adding sensors up the ass and putting more dodads that will break easily.

After driving it both the wife and me decided that a 4 runner, Envoy, Durango, Cherokee, Commando(cant remember the name), tahoe were not for us practically we were looking for a 4runner but like i am i got to try it all see what i like. To me every SUV is slowly but surely turning into a minivan with a bigger engine that looks like a truck sorta so the men will like it.

I dont think toyota is losing its quality what its losing is its image as a tough dependable vehicle that will go where you want it to go and instead is catering to upclass clean mall cruiser people instead of the loyal off road and general fans that enjoy a yota for its dependability and toughness.