http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...nyyotalogo.jpg

Check this out..................

 

That is absolutely hilarious! Someone needs to make that into a sticker

 

Fortunately, I've only had 2 Jeeps...

What about someone who has had...(hold on, let me count) 10 of them?

 

To those who participated in or read this topic, I apologize for my part in the argument between myself and merace19. Regarless of who is right or wrong, it should not have happened.

 

I've had a 5.9L ZJ. I actually enjoyed driving it. It was a beast. However, I could not wait to get back into a Toyota. There were little things that kept going out in the Jeep. It was unnerving, because I kept worrying about whether it will leave me stranded on the side of the road on a cold winter day.

Toyota has better fit and finish. It will be more reliable. The Jeep does have SFA, but the 4Runner, I felt, is just as capable off-road with its bigger stock tires and ground clearance. And finally, the resale value definitely favors Toyota. That alone would sway my decision if I were buying today.

 

with the money your gona spend on a 05 or 06 4runne or jeep, you could probly buy a first gen runner for a trail rig, and buy a 3rd gen for the street.

 

Firsty i like both jeeps and yota's, though i like cherokees much better then wranglers.

For me the bottom line is wranglers can be amazing offroad vehicles, but from the people i know who have them the key issue is that they are not made to withstand upgrading, and the only way to make them truley capable is to upgrade them.
Sure they have SFA, but from people that i know those front axles are ill suited for serious offroad use, and the driveshafts are also too weak to withstand lifted applications. This in addition to the fact that the AMC 4.0, or the 4.0 that replaced it are both gas guzzlers compared to toyota's 3.4L 5VZ-FE, or the 1GR, though all of these engines are very dependable.

 

Just get a professional unbiased opinion. Talk to any mechanic and bodyman and ask them what they like. Don't go to a dealership because they don't see the unit very much after it has some miles on it plus they might be biased.

I have never owned a Jeep but I have two friends that do and I advised them not to get it. But the "Coolness" factor is what got them. My first and only 4X4 is the 3rd gen 4Runner I got recently.

I am a mechanic and my opinions based on either the 4Runner and the Jeep are stemmed from that. I never paid attention to trucks personally. I was into sports cars before. But I would fix whatever would come into the shop with the sole idea in my head of just fixing it.

Jeeps: Their overall construction is cheap. Everything shakes rattles and rolls. It doesn't drive very nice. The engine is rough and did they ever fix that blow-by issue? To me it's like a toy. Not something you would want to drive 365 days of the year.

4Runner: The fit and finish is great and what would be expected with a quality product. Reliable. Rarely are you fixing one because something serious broke. Yes most things wear but even then the "wear" items last longer. Handles great because of the IFS and is still more than capable offroad.

One gauge I use in quality is automatic transmissions. The autos in the Jeeps or most Chryslers for that matter suck. Always getting sent to the scrap. Hell even a lot of Honda's had apparent transmission problems but seem to work fine past the 150,000mi range. That's reliability. You can have the greatest car in the world but if you are constantly repairing manufacturer defects you'll always be behind the eight ball.

I worked for this one shop that was next to a glass shop. We both concluded that overall the German cars were . They put things together so stupidly. From the interior to mechanical. But thats a different argument altogether

 

I think you all have made very valid points!!! I tend to agree with the pro Toyota guys on the reliability of Toyotas. I have a few friends who owned Jeeps Wranglers and I owned a 74 FJ40 along with my 4Runner. I think another factor to consider is how much gear do you have? I usually take the family with me on off road trips and with the 3 of us, my recovery gear (i.e. tow straps, come-along, tools, air compressor etc?) and all our camping stuff, I have to utilize some of my friends cargo space when I would take my FJ40, but when I take my 4Runner, I can fit everyone and everything easily and comfortably!!! If you are like us and always go on trips way over prepared (better safe than sorry) then maybe you want to consider the 4Runners cargo space. 4Runners have a decent cargo area and typically do not require all the fabrication for racks and a possible trailer for gear that Jeep Wranglers probably would!!! Hope this helps!!!

 

I'm trying to delete these multiple posts.

 

As you can see, I'm not very successful at it.

 

Sorry.

 

sorry.

 

sorry

 

William, why are you apologising? All you did was give your opinion of your Jeep. I had a '05 Unlimited and a '99 Wrangler and what you say is true. The unlimited handles and rides better and follows grooves less then the regular wrangler, and doesnt feel any more topheavy than any other suv i've driven. I had a '85 CJ8 Scrambler, and just like the unlimited it was better than the '84 CJ7 I had. The later coil sprung Wranglers are an improvement over the CJ's, so there really is no comparison. I get the impression that merace can't handle anyone disagreeing with him on things. He had no reason going off on you. i'm new to this site, and reading his attack makes me wonder if I really need to be here. I hope its not a normal thing.

 

Why dou you say they wont withstand upgrading? There's a bunch more stuff for Wranglers on the aftermarket than for Toyotas. Just for the front axle you can get alloy shafts and stronger u-joints or upgrade from 27 to 30 spline shafts, axle trusses and other stuff. the front axle can be made to withstand 35-36inch tires pretty easy, stock can take 35 if you take it easy. The jeep axle has more strength upgrades than the Toyota ifs. Better drive shafts can be made too.

The AMC motor was the 4.2 otherwise called the 258 ci. The 4.0 or 242 ci was a chrysler modified version with a better head and different stroke. the design goes back to 1963 I think, which was a 232 ci. Thats one reason why the gas milage isnt good and wind drag being another reson.

 

But jeeps are trail rated! C'mon thats gotta count for something? MY moms liberty on 235's is more capable than my 4Runner. on 295's!

Aaron

 

Welcome to the site.

No, it's not a normal thing. Out of all the forum sites I belong to (one for Ford Ranger based vehicles, one Ford F150s, 2 motorcycles sites, one ATV site, one Jeep, and one Wrangler site, this site, and Tundra Solutions) and with the disagreements that are bound to happen after replying to thousands of discussions on all of these sites, I've never had anyone do me like Merace did.

The argumant started here, even though I said nothing wrong here.

There was another topic here where I replied to Merace. My reply was based on my misunderstanding of something and somehow missing information that was posted. After Merace set me straight, I acknowledged that I was wrong.

But that wasn't good enough. He sent me a series of PMs where he demanded that I apologize and remove the posts where I posted wrong information and such. I told him no, all I would do is apologize. I would leave the posts up so people could see what I was apologizing for. That wasn't good enough for him, but it was why I apologized.

He did edit the posts he made in that topic where he blasted me, deleting what he said to me, but he never apologized to me for the way he spoke to me. That's why I didn't delete my posts, because much of what he said to me is preserved in the posts where I quoted him. I wanted people to be able to read all of that.

During the course of all this, in the PMs he sent he called me various dirty and derogatory names, said I have no mechanical ability at all (not true), said that I have absolutely nothing useful to add to these forums, etc. I still have the PMs saved to prove it.

Anyway, Merace is certainly an exception. Most people here are very nice and tolerable of someone that still doesn't know alot about Toyotas (my Tacoma is my first). Merace does at least seem to have alot of knowledge, just like a bunch of people on here do. But don't let him scare you away. I'm not scared of him and you shouldn't be either.

I'm glad someone with some Unlimited experience was able to give their opinion on how it drove, and was able to compare it with a standard Wrangler.

The main reason I got rid of my Wrangler was fuel economy. I also wanted more comfort for longer trips. More towing capacity is a plus, and since I now drive 39 miles to work down back roads through areas without any population (versus 11 miles to my old job), I wanted a more reliable vehicle.

I agree with what you said about upgrading. I was going to reply to that post myself, but that wasn't long after Merace did what he did to me. I figured I would just let the dust settle and stay away from this topic. After all, it has been beat to death.

Like you said, there are certainly are more strength upgrades for the Wrangler front axle than the Toyota IFS. I think there are a couple of upgrades for the older Toyota trucks and 4Runners ('86 to '95) and the earlier Tacomas and the 4Runners based on them with the 7.5", but I haven't heard of any for the newer Tacomas/4Runners with the front 8".

Speaking of such, if anyone knows of any front axle strength upgrades for my '06 Tacoma, let me know. I've ordered a 3" lift and will get 285/75-16 tires for it, and later on will regear and get a front ARB.

 

William, if you are having problems with someone on here and they are sending you deragatory pm's then you need to contact a moderator and let them know.

 

the 3vze isnt too great of an example for this though.