Why haven't my rings seated yet???
11-18-2008, 08:29 PM
#41
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did you offset the ring gaps properly? did you check the gaps some rings you have to file for proper fit. did you plasti gauge your bearing (hard turning over)
11-18-2008, 08:50 PM
#42
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Well , here's another suggestion.... pull the valve cover off which takes all of about 3 minutes and actually LOOK at the valves seals. They may be tough to see through the springs, but if one is not seated properly or cracked, then you should still be able to see it and it should be obvious if it is burning that much oil. Pay close attention to the valves on the cylinder with the different color of plug. I would say that if your rings were messed up at all, then your engine would be running like a bag of crap and acting as though it were trying to jump out of the engine bay. The engine will be very tight to roll over by hand with a good crosshatch and all new parts until it has broken in so I wouldn't worry too much about that (unless of course it is squeeling like mad when it fires up)!!! Check the allignment of the tips of the valve stems also. There is a possibility that one of your valves or guides is bent.
I would concentrate on the head and not the bottom end.
I would concentrate on the head and not the bottom end.
11-18-2008, 08:50 PM
#43
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Quick question sort of relating to your smoking problem: I just started my truck today after it being parked for about 24 hours. mine didn't smoke.
normally, the truck (when it smokes) is sitting idle for a maximum of 12 or 14 hours. If sitting for this amount of time, it smokes. But 24+ hours...no smoke.
Is this the case with you as well?
normally, the truck (when it smokes) is sitting idle for a maximum of 12 or 14 hours. If sitting for this amount of time, it smokes. But 24+ hours...no smoke.
Is this the case with you as well?
11-19-2008, 12:08 AM
#44
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also all rings will have some sort of mark on them (small dot ) that always faces up
Last edited by DudeBud; 11-19-2008 at 04:31 AM.
11-19-2008, 03:52 AM
#45
Each ring manufacturer puts a set of install instructions in the box. They are there for you to read and follow. I never use anything but iron rings for ordinary daily driver engines. If you used chrome rings, they may never seat. You have just, possibly, learned a tough lesson in rebuilding engines since it appears you did not read the instructions on installing the rings. I break in my engines by pulling hills soon after the rebuild. The load and heat seats the rings. The worse the cylinder walls, in terms of wear, the longer the seat time. None have ever failed to seat after 30 minutes of run time. I also typically use 10-30 oil during breakin. Go back and read the instructions on installing the rings. Your answer may be there.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
11-19-2008, 01:25 PM
#46
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Each ring manufacturer puts a set of install instructions in the box. They are there for you to read and follow. I never use anything but iron rings for ordinary daily driver engines. If you used chrome rings, they may never seat. You have just, possibly, learned a tough lesson in rebuilding engines since it appears you did not read the instructions on installing the rings. I break in my engines by pulling hills soon after the rebuild. The load and heat seats the rings. The worse the cylinder walls, in terms of wear, the longer the seat time. None have ever failed to seat after 30 minutes of run time. I also typically use 10-30 oil during breakin. Go back and read the instructions on installing the rings. Your answer may be there.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
11-19-2008, 01:32 PM
#47
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Well , here's another suggestion.... pull the valve cover off which takes all of about 3 minutes and actually LOOK at the valves seals. They may be tough to see through the springs, but if one is not seated properly or cracked, then you should still be able to see it and it should be obvious if it is burning that much oil. Pay close attention to the valves on the cylinder with the different color of plug. I would say that if your rings were messed up at all, then your engine would be running like a bag of crap and acting as though it were trying to jump out of the engine bay. The engine will be very tight to roll over by hand with a good crosshatch and all new parts until it has broken in so I wouldn't worry too much about that (unless of course it is squeeling like mad when it fires up)!!! Check the allignment of the tips of the valve stems also. There is a possibility that one of your valves or guides is bent.
I would concentrate on the head and not the bottom end.
I would concentrate on the head and not the bottom end.
I see what your saying. And I had the valve cover off awhile back because I needed to adjust the valves and didn't look very closely to seals.
Thanks for your input!
11-19-2008, 01:33 PM
#48
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the tapered edge should be on the piston side of the ring, and installed with the taper on the bottom (oil pan) side of the piston... in such a way that any build up forces the ring towards the cylinder wall.
make sense?
not that your rings have it, BUT if they do....
and that would only apply to the oil scraper rings... not the compression ring....
its taper should point up towards the head.
make sense?
not that your rings have it, BUT if they do....
and that would only apply to the oil scraper rings... not the compression ring....
its taper should point up towards the head.
11-19-2008, 03:16 PM
#49
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Regarding the rings... whether or not they are tapered, there is usually only one way for them to go on. If you have ever tried to install them upside down, you would find it almost impossible to get them to compress into the piston grooves due to the interference in shape. You would also likely never get the piston into the cylinder without a really big hammer! The staggering of the gaps is more just for wear and to decrease the remote possibility of oil or compression loss. It is really not very important as in any engine, the rings will turn on their own completely at random anyways. The spacing of the gaps will not in any way contribute to a large amount of smoke.
11-19-2008, 06:22 PM
#54
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They break in our 320 cubic inch flat 4, carburetored upside down air cooled, Robinson R22 helicopter motors with mineral oil. =p no idea on weight
just your fun factoid of the day =p
just your fun factoid of the day =p
11-20-2008, 06:12 AM
#56
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IMHO you shouldn't have had smoke at all. Not on start up, not ever. A well built motor wont smoke.
I have gone through my share of new motors, both crate motors and home rebuilds.
My suggestion is to pull the motor, disassemble, check tolerances on the block and pistons, run a dingle ball through it, re-ring the pistons properly(if you cant remember how they were installed, you probably didnt do it right), and run again. the first 500 miles should be driven normally(as in normal human). Avoid extended idling, vary speed and rpm, and change the oil. Like stated early, use a cheap, non synthetic oil for this.
11-20-2008, 07:51 AM
#57
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Well, won't it smoke a little on the very first initial startup until it burns off the excess oil you used to coat the inside of the cylinder walls when installing pistons?
About the oil itself....I'll claim a bit of ignorance. I was told in another thread that 20w-50 (which is a multi-viscosity 20 weight oil) was too heavy to run in my engine. People seemed to think that 5w-x was better because it could get into all the little places it needs to go better. Why then, on a newly rebuilt engine, where the tolerances are much much tighter because there has been no wear, would you use a 30w oil? Is it because you need something thick to pick up all the little fine pieces of metal that inevitably wear off in the break in?
I'm really not trying to be argumentative....I'd like to understand this better.
(If it means anything, I'm going back to 10w-40 because of the other thread, so I really am listening)
About the oil itself....I'll claim a bit of ignorance. I was told in another thread that 20w-50 (which is a multi-viscosity 20 weight oil) was too heavy to run in my engine. People seemed to think that 5w-x was better because it could get into all the little places it needs to go better. Why then, on a newly rebuilt engine, where the tolerances are much much tighter because there has been no wear, would you use a 30w oil? Is it because you need something thick to pick up all the little fine pieces of metal that inevitably wear off in the break in?
I'm really not trying to be argumentative....I'd like to understand this better.
(If it means anything, I'm going back to 10w-40 because of the other thread, so I really am listening)
11-20-2008, 10:29 AM
#58
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the miniscule amount you will get there is not going to continue long enough to cause concern. that would be gone long before the cam break in is done
11-20-2008, 05:08 PM
#59
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Okay....contacted the seller of my rings.
The rings ARE tapered and I didn't notice this while installing them. I possibly could have installed them wrong. And was told to either rap out my engine or put a load on it while going uphill.
I did 100mph in 4th gear for at least a minute and rapped the out of it. I can chirp the tire in 3rd gear too. Looks like I'll have to re-ring my engine
Life sucks huh?
The rings ARE tapered and I didn't notice this while installing them. I possibly could have installed them wrong. And was told to either rap out my engine or put a load on it while going uphill.
I did 100mph in 4th gear for at least a minute and rapped the out of it. I can chirp the tire in 3rd gear too. Looks like I'll have to re-ring my engine
Life sucks huh?
11-20-2008, 05:11 PM
#60
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I was thinking this too. I was curious as to why you havent done one. A leak down test can tell you if the problem is across the board, or on a specific cylinder.
IMHO you shouldn't have had smoke at all. Not on start up, not ever. A well built motor wont smoke.
I have gone through my share of new motors, both crate motors and home rebuilds.
My suggestion is to pull the motor, disassemble, check tolerances on the block and pistons, run a dingle ball through it, re-ring the pistons properly(if you cant remember how they were installed, you probably didnt do it right), and run again. the first 500 miles should be driven normally(as in normal human). Avoid extended idling, vary speed and rpm, and change the oil. Like stated early, use a cheap, non synthetic oil for this.
IMHO you shouldn't have had smoke at all. Not on start up, not ever. A well built motor wont smoke.
I have gone through my share of new motors, both crate motors and home rebuilds.
My suggestion is to pull the motor, disassemble, check tolerances on the block and pistons, run a dingle ball through it, re-ring the pistons properly(if you cant remember how they were installed, you probably didnt do it right), and run again. the first 500 miles should be driven normally(as in normal human). Avoid extended idling, vary speed and rpm, and change the oil. Like stated early, use a cheap, non synthetic oil for this.
