CoedNaked

Amen!

toyota_mdt_tech

Sounds like late ignition timing.

Green93

I think I have already solved both my problems. First was a couple of mixed up vacuum hoses and one I got that fixed up I found a cracked shim (the last pictures I posted).

Tomorrow I have to get the removal tool for the shims and hopefully Toyota has one in stock. Seems like they have nothing I need. Every time it's a day wait. Might have to get Coed to pull some strings for me.

Jason

sactoyota

There are over 20 different shim sizes available. Start contacting dealerships and get the one you need. Looks like it was overshimmed badly. I'd check the clearances on all cylinders after seeing that. Get them all in spec or you'll either see another damaged shim or premature failure of your new cam...

dirtpup

the best thing would be to check the valve lash on every valve to make sure they are correct beacouse the way that cam looks not does not look good at all i my self would have it polished up or get a new one beacouse if you dont have it fixed letting it go will make it hard on the cam loab when rotating over with the loab being wore down some already the valve lash will be different than the others. and will ware down more and leave metel in your bottom end causeing the cyclinders to be scratched and weare your bearings out it onley takes a teaspon of debree to wash out a cyclinder and then some.

Green93

This damn truck is fighting me every step of the way. Last night I got a new shim and bolted everything back together. About 10 minutes ago I decided to go down and start it up so maybe I could drive it tomorrow. She started up fine but seemed to be struggling a little. RPM's were low. Then about 10 seconds after starting it I hear the exact same noise. Once the noise starts the RPM's raise up and she runs nice and smooth, aside from the loud-as-hell noise from the cam.

I am only assuming that it is the same shim that broke since it acts the same and sounds the same. So.....what is causing the shim to break? Am I looking at a bent valve stem? Valve stem too tight in the valve guide? What else would cause the strain on the engine so that the shim cracks? Any opinions welcome. I assume that I am looking at another tear down. Heads off means new head bolts, head gaskets, at least one valve and alot of grief.

Jason

Bumpin' Yota

did you check the clearance btwn the cam and the shim. When the lobe is pointed away from the shim there hsould be a small clearance. (somewhere btw 0.007" and 0.013" iirc - consult your TFSM)

Im betting that you do NOT need that second spacer under the shim and there is full time contact btwn the shim and the cam resulting in its fracture.

Green93

I have an FSM and used the chart they have in there. I only used the shim that came with my Weasy2k cams and the Toyota shim. The other one was beaten up and I just threw it away. With the old shim installed I measured my clearance and used the exhaust chart and came up with a #20 shim.

I'm thinking the bucket might have been damaged by the cam but that doesn't explain why it broke the first time. It must be a problem that was there before I got it started the first time, which is why I'm suspecting the valve being bent of installed improperly. I had my heads built at a shop so is this something they should cover?

I'm tired of working on it, I just want to drive it.

Jason

dirtpup

if you broke a nother shim you have a bent valve im 99% sure you do did you measure the lobe of the cam to make sure it was ground down the same as the other lobes and the paper work on the cams you could have one lobe not ground down enough causing it to put tremendous presure on the valve when fully opened causing the shim to break.

Green93

I also think I have a bent valve. I didn't check the cam but nobody else has had any problems with Johnny's cams. That I am aware of anyways. Just to be sure I can use the calipers on it once I get everything riped apart.....again.

Jason

engnbldr

>>>*I remember early on with the getting the cams in bass ackwards on a set of heads I had rebuilt..

*Man were my cheeks pink at that one...*LOL**..The early ones didn't have the distributor shaft hole drilled all the way....*EB

engnbldr

>>>*K...After I got your email I came back over and read the thread. You are going to hate this but that head will probably have to come off.

I have never seen one of those shims ever break like that, the only way I can see that happening is if you are stacking the valve spring.

My best guess is the machine shop didn't realize they were working with an oversize valve or they made a mistake. If the seats were not properly cut and the valve installed height corrected the assembly will be short. If so, then the higher lift cam moves the valve further and there you are, full stack.

Also another possible is the wrong springs, OR perhaps someone installed some .060" shims UNDER the valve spring? That is a common machine shop practice. Wrong on OHC engines, though.

In any event, there is a serious valve geometry problem and next is broken valve inside cylinder and OHNO if you keep trying to run it, breaking one of those shims means serious impact!

Good luck, holler if you need help....*EB

TNRabbit

Any resolution to this? I'm curious how you broke TWO shims in a row...

Ganoid

Coil bind is about the only way to damage a shim like that (I guess thats what Ted was saying now that I did some more reading). I guess its possible that going back to a stock cam profile with reduced lift could get you out of the woods for now if your just looking to drive it rather than tear it apart again. You could also check the compressed length of after market springs in an attempt to get a shorter spring or even pull the spring and check under the spring seat for a shim.

When it comes to 3.0 valve train problems I am the "Poster boy". It took me 3 sets of valves, 4 engine removals and one new set of springs. The solution for me was Custom made lightweight Manley valves (1mm OS + lower retention groove) and new valve springs to finally get it right.

Green93

Jesus I hope my problems don't go on that long. I haven't ripped into it since the second "snap" so I am just assuming since it sounds exactly like it did before. I know the shop put in the old valve springs since he said they were still fine. All of them work except one since it runs fine(with a little extra noise)once that shim is broken.

I will most likely end up taking it to Weasy2k when I get it out. Just so I can make sure it is right this time. Work is just keeping me busy for 10 hours a day plus saturdays right now. We have 2 other vehicles so it's not a huge deal. Although I'm looking forward to burning the car I am driving now, once the truck is on the road.

Jason

Jay351

I vote we crush the mazda with your truck

Green93

I know this is dragging on forever but made a little more progress tonight. I have everything ripped down to the bare heads now. I took off the valve covers and expected to find that shim broken again...which it wasn't. I then looked at the drivers side and noticed a shim laying in the head. It was spit from the #4 exhaust valve bucket. The shim is a little bent. I then looked under all the shims and found a total of 4 buckets had the factory shim, the sea to sky shim, and also a third one. All the rest just have the factory shim and the sea to sky shim. The sea to sky shim measures .024 just to take up what was ground off the cam. The third shim measures .018.

Here is what I am thinking so let me know if it sounds correct.

The first shim hopped out because of the 2 extra shims in the bucket(.042 total). It ended up breaking and making the horrible noise I had. Somewhere along the line the next shim must have hopped up on the edge of the bucket making it way too tight. Once I replace the broken shim I start it up and the tight clearance makes the engine bog down until it spits the second shim. Then I get the noise again. I assume that the first valve is ok since it runs fine once I replaced the shim, and that my only problem was the extra shim. Coincidence that both buckets I've had problems with had 3 shims?

So I was thinking that I redo the 4 buckets with extra shims and get them all down to just the sea to sky shim and the factory shim. I haven't heard of anyone having troubles with the two together. Let me know if you did. Then I get the cams fixed and button it up.


Dammit I just read this over and I can barely understand it.....whatever. I'm just happy I might not have to take the heads off.

Jason

Johnboy21

iTrader: (-1)

Another thing to check if your engine is running like that after putting it in is the throttle position sensor on your throttle body. I know when I rebuit my 3.0 I fired it up and it ran like idling sparatically and backfiring barely wanting to run which kinda sounds like your ordeal. It's the sensor on the side of you throttle body if you disconnected your throttle body then it wouldnt hurt to check it out. Any little tweak of that stupid sensor and your engine runs like crap

Green93

I can't freaking believe that today was finally the day. After facing just about every problem possible she finally gave in and decided to run. I had everything together this morning and was waiting on my father in law to help time it when she decided to make one last stand. One of the injectors started leaking. In about an hour we had the plenum off, the leak stopped and all back together. Feels good seeing her purring in the driveway.

Not 15 mins after I pulled her out of the garage someone stopped and asked if she was for sale. I told him that after what I had been through I was going to keep it for awhile.

Anyways, I just wanted to share.

Jason

Jay351

Wooo! You could take her to work tomorrow

Congrats Jason, great to see its up and running. How does it run?