Timing chain snapped
#43
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If the metal backed guide has a better design at the top mounting bolt, that alone is worth it!!
Quite honestly, I would rather have installed EB's metal guide and t-chain kit, I just couldn't spare another couple days with my truck down!!... Crap.
So, EB's concern is the damper and damper failure, which seems to point to a loose chain and then slapping on drivers side guide, which is what I have suspected.
I positioned my new guide generally in line with the chain, but the very top of the guide set slightly outward. My thinking is keeping that top edge angled out a tiny bit should help prevent it from being snagged and broken should chain slack roll over the cam gear and try to catch the top edge of the guide.
On his comment about metal back guides and metal filings.... I have to somewhat disagree. If the metal backed guide does break and gets lodged where the chain can "grind" on it.... someone please explain to me how there will be NO metal filings in the oil???
#46
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Flyingbrass: I suspect what breaks the driver side guide is a loop of untensioned chain thrown over the top of the cam timing gear.
I thought that this happened to you with the EB guides, I misunderstood
I thought that this happened to you with the EB guides, I misunderstood
#49
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except for when all the plastic plugs the pickup tube and blocks oil flow to the engine. I think this happened to mine, it looked as if it was lacking in oil lubrication when i tore it apart, i did find lots of plastic timing guide on the pickup tube. not a for sure just my .02
#51
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If you had a belt. You would be changing it around 100K, maybe sooner. The only cure to this is gear to gear. Or 2X the width timing chain. Like the older 22Rs.
#52
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Plastic seems best at first glance because it is softer.
A magnetic drain plug or an added magnet will catch and hold steel shavings, and maybe even bigger chunks that are most worrying due to their ability to significantly clog the pickup screen and limit oil flow. Plastic can't be caught that way.
Which is worse? I don't know.
#53
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I'd like to see a piece of a metal backed guide actually make it into the oil pan. Anything coming apart in the cover has to make its way down and past lower sprocket in chain which is why the plastic guides look like this (my motor) in the pan,
Metal wouldnt get 'chewed' up ... i would think it'd just destroy the chain and everything else bound up.
And yes the metal backed guides DO break. I'm speaking from personal experience as ive already mentioned in a previous post.
I'll be doing another timing chain on a friends 22R here in the next month. I'll be using plastic guides. I did use a metal backed guide for my dads ole 87 pickup only because it came in Ted's engine kit. It hasn't broken =) Theres about 25k on that motor right now.
Metal wouldnt get 'chewed' up ... i would think it'd just destroy the chain and everything else bound up.
And yes the metal backed guides DO break. I'm speaking from personal experience as ive already mentioned in a previous post.
I'll be doing another timing chain on a friends 22R here in the next month. I'll be using plastic guides. I did use a metal backed guide for my dads ole 87 pickup only because it came in Ted's engine kit. It hasn't broken =) Theres about 25k on that motor right now.
Last edited by drew303; 05-27-2010 at 01:25 AM.
#55
Registered User
There IS NO WAY a pickup tube can be clogged by plastic. Plastic will simply chill in the bottom of your pan. Period. If plastic particles do, hypothetically, make it to your oil pick up, the screen is too fine for most pieces to enter.
The small, tiny, microscopic if you will, pieces (if they do somehow enter) are taken to your oil filter.
I don't know about you guys, but I run an oil filter for a reason, and yes I do expect it to take care of ALL foreign materials/pieces/whatever is in my oil.
I think that people jump to conclusions. For example, you pull your 22R/RE, throw it on a stand, and what do you do? FLIP it over to get the pan off!!! So what happens now? Well gravity comes into play, and all the little pieces that have been accumulating at the bottom of your pan are thrown at the oil screen, and what do you think? "WTF my screen looks like a chia pet" Exactly.
Gnarly, we should just make a club called "Friends against 22R/RE timing component design"
The small, tiny, microscopic if you will, pieces (if they do somehow enter) are taken to your oil filter.
I don't know about you guys, but I run an oil filter for a reason, and yes I do expect it to take care of ALL foreign materials/pieces/whatever is in my oil.
I think that people jump to conclusions. For example, you pull your 22R/RE, throw it on a stand, and what do you do? FLIP it over to get the pan off!!! So what happens now? Well gravity comes into play, and all the little pieces that have been accumulating at the bottom of your pan are thrown at the oil screen, and what do you think? "WTF my screen looks like a chia pet" Exactly.
Gnarly, we should just make a club called "Friends against 22R/RE timing component design"
#57
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[QUOTE=Gnarly4X;51456223]Well, it is certainly possible to clog up the oil pickup screen, BUT it would have to be layered with sludge and varnish so that the plastic or metal filings could stick to it. Of course, *tongue-in-cheek mode on*... none of us would EVER let our oil go than long!!
This is a very good point. Clean oil makes a big difference. Clean oil dripping off of of the screen at cool downs would take particles along with it, and would not allow them to stick. When I pulled my pick up screen, the oil was dirty from a HG leak, and the oil was clogging the screen about 75%, just from sludge!
This is a very good point. Clean oil makes a big difference. Clean oil dripping off of of the screen at cool downs would take particles along with it, and would not allow them to stick. When I pulled my pick up screen, the oil was dirty from a HG leak, and the oil was clogging the screen about 75%, just from sludge!
#58
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well when I had mine apart it was covering the screen, Maybe it was cause it was upside down but it was stuck to it, had to pull it off. I dont know the history of the engine in my runner as I rebuilt it as soon as I got it, had a bad knock. timing components looked new. I am just saying anythings possible. I would prefer not to have anything down in the pan.
#60
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You have to be kidding thinking a timing chain and gears dont wear. I have a friends that jumped the gears, chain jumped the gears and was out 180 deg. Took it apart and the chain was streched beyond specks, way beyond. So no guide in the world would have pervented that. It did not break the guide. By the way. So again folks its chain failure first.
Well, it is certainly possible to clog up the oil pickup screen, BUT it would have to be layered with sludge and varnish so that the plastic or metal filings could stick to it. Of course, *tongue-in-cheek mode on*... none of us would EVER let our oil go that long!!
*tongue-in-cheek mode off*...
I do, absolutely, believe that the driver's side chain guides that I've seen so far are NOT well designed and could be designed and manufactured to last 10s of thousand of miles longer. As I mentioned in my RR t-chain w/o pulling the head post... I can't see where the chain or sprockets "wear out".. it's the guide that breaks and it appears that the tensioner is the other cultprit in timing chain system failures.
I welcome any one else's comments to prove that my analysis is faulty.. I am not an automotive engineer!!
*tongue-in-cheek mode off*...
I do, absolutely, believe that the driver's side chain guides that I've seen so far are NOT well designed and could be designed and manufactured to last 10s of thousand of miles longer. As I mentioned in my RR t-chain w/o pulling the head post... I can't see where the chain or sprockets "wear out".. it's the guide that breaks and it appears that the tensioner is the other cultprit in timing chain system failures.
I welcome any one else's comments to prove that my analysis is faulty.. I am not an automotive engineer!!