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Well, I was having an oil leaked diagnosed (I was right...oil pan gasket) and was experiencing a strange power dropout for the past few months and according to my mechanic it turns out the issue stems from my beloved 1986 Toyota 22re not holding compression properly. The cylinders are supposed to be at 171 psi, and mine are 110 psi for the weakest (which is misfiring), other three range from 130 to 140. From what I've read, the lowest recommended psi is 114, so the 110 sounds low, but not that much lower than the lowest recommended level. You all are such a knowledgeable bunch, I feel I need to bring this to the community to help me sift and sort. Due to the lack of compression coupled with the oil pan gasket, my mechanic is recommending I get a Rebuilt Jasper engine, as well as replace the clutch as they'll be in there anyways and it'd be easy. I only have 250k on the engine and was hoping it would last longer, but here we are. Any recommendations? Is it time to replace my motor? If so, is a Jasper with a 3yr/100k mi warranty the way to go or should I hold out for 22re Performance to be back in business? Sounds like Jim is backlogged at the moment. I do use this truck as my main vehicle, but also rely on using my bicycle for more "daily driving" and want to get the right engine, not just the quick fix. My mechanic wants to charge 6.8k for total parts and install (engine + clutch) . Does this sound reasonable based on shops in Colorado where I currently live?
Any feedback is warmly welcomed and MUCH appreciated!! Here's my seafoam green cruisin' machine in question-
It sounds like a ring job would fix your problem. But, I'd find a capable, reasonable mechanic or wait for 22re performance. Your engine is probably just fine other than rings.
for 1/2 that price you can get a rebuilt quality long block!!
Last edited by 87-4runner; 01-07-2021 at 04:09 AM.
I even question the comp readings because mine are about the same #’s and mine runs great. I don’t daily drive it(unless summer) It does use some oil though, so i know it needs rings. 170#s/cyl is best case on a new engine. My analysis would be, is it running ok with low compression and some oil consumption, or is it running badly/not running? Low compression won't account for a periodic drop out of power unless that low compression is due to something like a poorly seating valve. More diagnosis required.
Around here even rebuildable 22re’s are getting harder to come by and i’ve seen people asking $500 for ones in pieces or with rod knock so keep that in mind if you swap it, the old one has value.
I agree with the mechanic that it’s wise to change the clutch(pressure plate, throwout bearing, resurface flywheel) while in there. It adds about $250 in parts but nearly nothing in labor.
You didn't say, but in CO there must be a shop that specializes in Toyota repair. Go see them for a quote. Or buy a $1k Camry, Corolla or Accord to run until you can sort this plan out.
The oilpan gasket is a PITA to do in the truck, so unless it is critical, let it leak for now if you can tolerate it.
Last edited by Melrose 4r; 01-07-2021 at 06:27 AM.
The book time to R&R this engine is something in the area of 25 hours. Shop rates were in the $100-150 range around Denver when I looked last time. That's a good chunk of money, but buys you a warranty and a turn key solution. Your shop should not add any labor to install a fresh clutch during the engine install, in fact it saves them time and money since the correct alignment tool is in the box.
20# is a large difference when your best cylinders are at 140#. This will make it lope some but it shouldn't vary sporadically if it's just a worn ring/cylinder. To me this looks more like a sticking ring which is something seafoam or another similar product is actually good for.
Another thing that causes random power loss is exhaust blockages. You can open the exhaust at the intermediate pipe and bypass the cat and muffler to check for this. You're going to want to separate the exhaust if you do a bottle tune up anyway, it's really hard on the exhaust components.
I'd try this first before getting an aftermarket engine, not even 22reperformance builds engines to the tolerances they were putting on these in the factory.
Thank you all for these great responses and sorry for the late reply! I was out of town at my partners' parents place for the past week and a half and was stuck there longer than expected due to poor weather and driving conditions. Had to work and be sociable after, which didn't allow much time to get back to you all.
As far as the seafoam, would I apply this into each cylinder using the spark plug holes or is this something I would add to the oil? If so, any idea on how much is appropriate to add? I have added it to the gas tank to clean the fuel injectors before, but haven't tried it in the oil or directly into the cylinders before. I dug this up straight from SeaFoam's website, let me know if this is the correct application method you are referring to:
"Yes, it is safe to add Sea Foam through a spark plug hole. Mechanics have used this method for decades to free stuck rings and clogged expander rings. How to do it: Remove the spark plugs and pour Sea Foam into each cylinder cavity through the plug hole. [Note that it’s easier to use Sea Foam Spray.] Let the engine sit and soak up to 3 days (if you have the time). Be sure to crank the engine once a day to loosen the rings. You can also add a little more Sea Foam to each cylinder each day as it sits. Adding Sea Foam to the crankcase oil helps, too!" https://seafoamworks.com/questions-a...engine-solved/
I have a lot to learn about my truck and working on automotives in general, but the sticking ring theory makes a lot of sense to me conceptually. The power dropout is very intermittent. It sometimes idles just fine, and at other times even drops out when accelerating. It's rare, but it has been happening occasionally. I had been advised by a previous mechanic to use (you're all going to kill me on this) 20w-50 in my engine to prevent the oil from leaking from the leaking oil pan gasket. Of course, it helped for that purpose, but I wonder if it caused other issues (potential clogging // sticking of the rings?) as this weight is very thick and obviously not the preferred oil to use in a 22re. Could this have contributed to a sticking ring and would the seafoam treatment help?
My truck is currently still sitting // waiting at the shop as I just returned from my trip, I'm thinking of picking it up to try these treatments and see if I can tighten the Oil pan. The truck has leaked oil from there since I bought it, so my gut is that the oil pan gasket needs replacing, but that sounds like a great idea to try that before replacing the engine!
One last question in response to these posts- if the seafoam treatment doesn't solve the issue and I do need a ring job, what would that generally run from a shop?
ps- interesting info Melrose. It does run fairly well most of the time. I suppose if I had the shop swap the engine for me, they'd probably sell the old one eh?
Call around for prices if you do end up getting a rebuild. 6k is steep. I know theres a lot of toyota fanatics in Denver and Im sure theres some older gentleman who knows those motors in and out.
I got a guy in Albuquerque redoing my motor for a little under 2k with a 3 week turn around. Bearings, rings, freeze plugs, valve job, chain etc. All the shops were going to charge me 4 just do put on a new timing chain.
"All the shops were going to charge me 4 just do put on a new timing chain."
HOLY HIWAY ROBBERY BATMAN!!!
I'LL do it without removing the head for $1000...
Well, I was having an oil leaked diagnosed (I was right...oil pan gasket) and was experiencing a strange power dropout for the past few months and according to my mechanic it turns out the issue stems from my beloved 1986 Toyota 22re not holding compression properly. The cylinders are supposed to be at 171 psi, and mine are 110 psi for the weakest (which is misfiring), other three range from 130 to 140. From what I've read, the lowest recommended psi is 114, so the 110 sounds low, but not that much lower than the lowest recommended level. You all are such a knowledgeable bunch, I feel I need to bring this to the community to help me sift and sort. Due to the lack of compression coupled with the oil pan gasket, my mechanic is recommending I get a Rebuilt Jasper engine, as well as replace the clutch as they'll be in there anyways and it'd be easy. I only have 250k on the engine and was hoping it would last longer, but here we are. Any recommendations? Is it time to replace my motor? If so, is a Jasper with a 3yr/100k mi warranty the way to go or should I hold out for 22re Performance to be back in business? Sounds like Jim is backlogged at the moment. I do use this truck as my main vehicle, but also rely on using my bicycle for more "daily driving" and want to get the right engine, not just the quick fix. My mechanic wants to charge 6.8k for total parts and install (engine + clutch) . Does this sound reasonable based on shops in Colorado where I currently live?
Any feedback is warmly welcomed and MUCH appreciated!! Here's my seafoam green cruisin' machine in question-
If your mechanic is seriously trying to charge you 6.8k you should run and never go back to that ripoff artist again EVER.
You can buy a brand new short block from toyota for less than 2000$ that includes the block, pistons, rings, rods, bearings, and crank shaft. then you could get your OEM head rebuilt for about 300$. 6800$ is beyond hwy robbery, thats an insult actually. Toyota still sells the overhaul seals kit for the 22re also and for about 156$ it comes with every seal and gasket for the engine. you could have your block bored over and checked for flatness and the entire engine rebuilt for 1/3 of what your mechanic is asking. As far as Jasper rebuilt engines as I recall they don't get the bet reviews.
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 01-12-2021 at 03:35 PM.
I've used Rislone on several vehicles, and often had success for freeing up stuck rings, especially the oil rings.
Just change the oil and filter, and add the quart of Rislone in place of 1 qt of engine oil. Then just drive. The oil will get black very fast as all the varnish and oil deposits are removed, and typically we'd change it out after a 1,000 miles. It works best during long drives, as opposed to short hops.
I've used Rislone on several vehicles, and often had success for freeing up stuck rings, especially the oil rings.
Just change the oil and filter, and add the quart of Rislone in place of 1 qt of engine oil. Then just drive. The oil will get black very fast as all the varnish and oil deposits are removed, and typically we'd change it out after a 1,000 miles. It works best during long drives, as opposed to short hops.
A slightly (!) cheaper alternative is to put a small Dixie cup worth of diesel fuel into the oil before you do a hot oil change. Warm the truck up, add the diesel fuel, and run it for about 5 minutes. It will clean all the varnish and other deposits. Then change the oil, and filter, normally.
I've done this several times in both my trucks, and after I do, when I pull the valve cover to set the valve lash, everything is clean as a whistle, for whatever that's worth. When I had to pull the head on the 4Runner, the cylinders were also clean as a whistle. I honed them a little, but that was all I did to them. I've never done anything else to the bottom end. I'm not a mechanic, by any stretch.
I don't do it every time, just as I don't do a hot oil change every time. Once about every 3rd or 4the oil change. The first time on each truck, the amount of crud that came out was amazing. After that, the oil is black as sin, but not a lot of bits or chunks come out.
This little trick was shown to me by a professional mechanic shortly after I bought the pickup, in 88. Is it safe, a good idea, I can't say, but I do it, and both trucks still run great. Never any troubles. Well, the 4Runner is down after the fuse box inside caught fire, but until then...
It works for me, that's all I can say.
I bought an 86 Escaper RV built on a pickup chassis with a dually rear upgrade Looking to see if there is a special RV version of the 86 22re thanks! Thinking about getting remanufactured unit from 22reperformance.
this rig was made by a company called
Damon which is now Thor. I had a replacement 22re put in but I'm thinking to get a remanufactured unit. I saw some mention of an special RV version of the 22re. Does anyone know if there was a special RV 22re? Does everyone still think 22reperformance is the best? Thanks for any info!
That should be the Toyota 1ton chassis. Heavier duty carrier assembly(thicker axles) and a little larger wheel cylinders. The other nice thing is the spare worked at any position, front or rear. The engine wasn’t any different, though.
Yes it's the 1 ton dually that was required after the pre 1985 RVs using Toyota chassis had rear axle problems. And good to know about the standard 22re. We will see how well the used engine I had put in holds up but I'm thinking to eventually go remanufactured before I head out for my cross country trip. Thanks again!!
Most R series motors in RV conversions have a torqueir ground cam for low end power. Its a popular mod for off roaders to swap in an RV cam.
I know some year dually axles had issues, Im assuming your saying you got one after they figured it out? Ive just heard some horror stories but I dont know which year is which
01-06-2021, 07:38 PM
