View Poll Results: to SAS or Not To SAS.. that is the ?
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To SAS or not to SAS that is the ?
06-21-2006, 05:34 PM
#41
Registered User
Hi Chris,
I've read the thread quickly & didn't see any mention of drop down diff spacers being installed with your BJ kit. If you are going to be keeping the IFS for a while with the BJ spacers its really important you put in a front diff drop down kit (very cheap).
This effectively enables you to spread the increased travel proportionately over the upwards and downwards stroke lessening the extreme angles your CV's would see, and will definitely reduce your cv failures.
Just a thought if it hasn't already been mentioned.
I've read the thread quickly & didn't see any mention of drop down diff spacers being installed with your BJ kit. If you are going to be keeping the IFS for a while with the BJ spacers its really important you put in a front diff drop down kit (very cheap).
This effectively enables you to spread the increased travel proportionately over the upwards and downwards stroke lessening the extreme angles your CV's would see, and will definitely reduce your cv failures.
Just a thought if it hasn't already been mentioned.
06-21-2006, 05:42 PM
#42
Sponsor
Thread Starter
i did forget to mention the diff drop spacer.. it was so easy to install i forgot about it.. lol. yes i do have the 4crawler diff drop. that combined with the manual locking hubs have made a difference with blowing out the CV boots.
07-11-2006, 04:32 AM
#44
Registered User
I agree with some and disagree with some of the comments. Since you are in college and money is somewhat scarce, I would suggest you buy a lockright for the rear (not as bad as everyone says, not bad at all, awesome benefits offroad) and call it good, wheel what you have. Wait until after college to start building something.
However, if NOT spending a ton of money is not an option, I think you would be stupid to waste money on a 4" lift (I assume you are talking drop bracket). If you are definitely going to do something, then I say SAS. You can do it on the cheap, with some reading and research you can figure it out, especially if you have a friend that welds. I mean, Chevy springs and rears up front would do wonders for you, if your buddy fabbed up your front hanger, then the only major costs would be the high steer and the axle itself.
Right now, since I am still building, I am wheeling on 31's with a lockright in the back and a welded front. The stuff this thing will do is amazing.
As for this list, I see some changes made to save money:
85 SFA - $250
SFA lift - $300 (peiced together from junk yards and friends)
steering- High-Steer $369
Rear to match - $200 Chevy springs w/ Sky hangers
Lockers - lockrights f&r ($300?)
Axles shafts- 27 spline longs ($200) or Smurfield/Marfield
Chromoly (Poly Performance) rears- Skip it, Toy rears are solid, especially if you only want to run 33's.
New wheels/tires - buy used, there are tons of deals ($500)
Knuckly rebuild kits - $200
D-shafts redone - square tube front (free) stock rear should be ok with chevy's.
Still expensive, but not quite as bad. Plus there are things you can go without for a while, like a front locker, or front axle shafts if you are only running 33's. Then there are some that are variable. I have heard of people getting chevy springs for $25, around here I couldn't get them cheaper than $90.
Overall, like I said, you should buy a lockright and be happy with what you have, I mean, if you don't have a locker, then you probably haven't outwheeled your IFS yet. If you CAN'T do that though, then start saving up and buying parts for an SAS, you will only kick yourself later if you buy a drop bracket lift.
I disagree. Have you been on Pirate lately? The amount of people running budget builds is crazy. A lot of this stuff is proven to be cheap and work well. I won't deny that a kit is probably a more solid way to go, however, building cheap is not necessarily the opposite of building quality. Is it possible to go cheap and mess it all up? Yes. Is it possible to go cheap and do it right? Definitely.
Why "these days"? What have people done for years past when there were no longfields, when there weren't custom driveshaft shops all around? I think that the "build it expensive or your truck will fall apart" mentality is wrong.
However, if NOT spending a ton of money is not an option, I think you would be stupid to waste money on a 4" lift (I assume you are talking drop bracket). If you are definitely going to do something, then I say SAS. You can do it on the cheap, with some reading and research you can figure it out, especially if you have a friend that welds. I mean, Chevy springs and rears up front would do wonders for you, if your buddy fabbed up your front hanger, then the only major costs would be the high steer and the axle itself.
Right now, since I am still building, I am wheeling on 31's with a lockright in the back and a welded front. The stuff this thing will do is amazing.
As for this list, I see some changes made to save money:
85 SFA - $250
SFA lift - $300 (peiced together from junk yards and friends)
steering- High-Steer $369
Rear to match - $200 Chevy springs w/ Sky hangers
Lockers - lockrights f&r ($300?)
Axles shafts- 27 spline longs ($200) or Smurfield/Marfield
Chromoly (Poly Performance) rears- Skip it, Toy rears are solid, especially if you only want to run 33's.
New wheels/tires - buy used, there are tons of deals ($500)
Knuckly rebuild kits - $200
D-shafts redone - square tube front (free) stock rear should be ok with chevy's.
Still expensive, but not quite as bad. Plus there are things you can go without for a while, like a front locker, or front axle shafts if you are only running 33's. Then there are some that are variable. I have heard of people getting chevy springs for $25, around here I couldn't get them cheaper than $90.
Overall, like I said, you should buy a lockright and be happy with what you have, I mean, if you don't have a locker, then you probably haven't outwheeled your IFS yet. If you CAN'T do that though, then start saving up and buying parts for an SAS, you will only kick yourself later if you buy a drop bracket lift.
Originally Posted by Waskillywabbit
IMO, these days cheap and wheeling don't go together and all those folks that build those "budget" builds are also the DAs always broke down on the side of the trail too w/o any spare parts and/or tools.
Why "these days"? What have people done for years past when there were no longfields, when there weren't custom driveshaft shops all around? I think that the "build it expensive or your truck will fall apart" mentality is wrong.
Last edited by Intrepid; 07-11-2006 at 04:38 AM.
07-11-2006, 06:54 AM
#45
Sponsor
Thread Starter
ok i am going to let the cat out of the bag....... my dad has given me 1000 to SAS my truck, anything above and beyond is my cost.
adn i've been on crigslist every day... heres what i found:
85 SFA - $250
Sky SFA hanger, High-Steer kit , Rear conversion wiht 63" chevy $550
Knuckly rebuild kits - $200 (still need to get this)
D-shafts redone - square tube front, stock rear
Ford shock towers $40
Shocks $200 (still need to buy)
4.56 gear for the front 250 (still need to buy)
i'll do long-feilds lockers and 4.88 later.
i pick up the axle today. and hope fully start cutting / grinding / welding ASAP. i was going to wait till it was done before letting ya'll know, but i am going crazy not telling everyone. lol. i'll start a new thread with pics and a write up as we start into it.
Originally Posted by Intrepid
As for this list, I see some changes made to save money:
85 SFA - $250
SFA lift - $300 (peiced together from junk yards and friends)
steering- High-Steer $369
Rear to match - $200 Chevy springs w/ Sky hangers
Lockers - lockrights f&r ($300?)
Axles shafts- 27 spline longs ($200) or Smurfield/Marfield
Chromoly (Poly Performance) rears- Skip it, Toy rears are solid, especially if you only want to run 33's.
New wheels/tires - buy used, there are tons of deals ($500)
Knuckly rebuild kits - $200
D-shafts redone - square tube front (free) stock rear should be ok with chevy's.
85 SFA - $250
SFA lift - $300 (peiced together from junk yards and friends)
steering- High-Steer $369
Rear to match - $200 Chevy springs w/ Sky hangers
Lockers - lockrights f&r ($300?)
Axles shafts- 27 spline longs ($200) or Smurfield/Marfield
Chromoly (Poly Performance) rears- Skip it, Toy rears are solid, especially if you only want to run 33's.
New wheels/tires - buy used, there are tons of deals ($500)
Knuckly rebuild kits - $200
D-shafts redone - square tube front (free) stock rear should be ok with chevy's.
85 SFA - $250
Sky SFA hanger, High-Steer kit , Rear conversion wiht 63" chevy $550
Knuckly rebuild kits - $200 (still need to get this)
D-shafts redone - square tube front, stock rear
Ford shock towers $40
Shocks $200 (still need to buy)
4.56 gear for the front 250 (still need to buy)
i'll do long-feilds lockers and 4.88 later.
i pick up the axle today. and hope fully start cutting / grinding / welding ASAP. i was going to wait till it was done before letting ya'll know, but i am going crazy not telling everyone. lol. i'll start a new thread with pics and a write up as we start into it.
Last edited by ToferUOP; 07-11-2006 at 09:25 AM.
07-11-2006, 09:18 AM
#46
Contributing Member
:pat: SAS without lockers, big enough tires to fill the openings, and proper gearing is the most stupid thing I've ever heard of, but, hey, it's your (well, your dad's anyways) money, waste it however you like. :pat:
07-11-2006, 09:21 AM
#47
Sponsor
Thread Starter
i am going to run 35s. and 4.56 will work fine for now. lockers will come hopefully at christmas. i dont consider it a waste of money....
Last edited by ToferUOP; 07-11-2006 at 09:24 AM.
07-11-2006, 09:28 AM
#48
Contributing Member
Originally Posted by ToferUOP
i dont consider it a waste of money....
I don't think you'll find any argument anywhere that lockers will do more for the offroad capability of the vehicle than anything.
31's - 33's on an SAS are going to look tiny, and you're going to end up buying those 35's sooner than you expect. Plus, you're going to be hitting the front diff/axle on every rock on the trail due to the lower ground clearance.
07-11-2006, 09:47 AM
#50
Non SFA advisors can only offer opinions, not experiential wisdom, so I would take it is as such.
SFA on 37s open I went everywhere 2 lockered IFS rigs went on 33s. You are on the right track. Dont skimp tho, do it right the first time!
SFA on 37s open I went everywhere 2 lockered IFS rigs went on 33s. You are on the right track. Dont skimp tho, do it right the first time!
07-11-2006, 10:27 AM
#51
Registered User
Originally Posted by tc
:pat: SAS without lockers, big enough tires to fill the openings, and proper gearing is the most stupid thing I've ever heard of, but, hey, it's your (well, your dad's anyways) money, waste it however you like. :pat:
I think that IFS on 31's with a locker will be able to out wheel him, however, that is just part of the deal for now.
As for dragging the diff everywhere, if he learns how to drive it he will be fine. I have been wheeling the hell out of my '85 on 31's with no trouble. He should add some diff protection, however there is no shame in that, you have skid plates on IFS and your diff is much higher.
Like I said, if he can't just toss a locker in and deal with what he has until he is done college, then SA is the way to go, why waste money on the IFS?
As for the gearing, it will be a little high for 35's, perhaps a 4.7 in the t-case or something to slow down your crawl would be good. However, I am sure you will be able to sell the 4.56 diffs after and recoup some money.
Last edited by Intrepid; 07-11-2006 at 10:29 AM.
07-11-2006, 03:02 PM
#52
Contributing Member
Originally Posted by Intrepid
I would rather see him spend the money to SAC it even if he is open/open on 33's than see him waste the money on a drop bracket lift. It will definitely be stronger than IFS even if he is on stock axles and 33's.
I think that IFS on 31's with a locker will be able to out wheel him, however, that is just part of the deal for now.
I think that IFS on 31's with a locker will be able to out wheel him, however, that is just part of the deal for now.
My point is that he can run 33's NOW with no additional $$$ spent, and if he has the money, it would be better spent (at this point) on armor, lockers, and fuel. The experience a couple hundred bucks worth of 'wheeling fuel buys would make more difference than anything.
Just my 2 cents and worth what you paid for it...
07-11-2006, 03:47 PM
#53
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I have a 4" bracket lift and it was worth the $$. I run 35's, no BL, no rub, but trimmed. I have a ARB out back and it "pushes" me thru places the front holds me back. I would love to do a SAS, but honestly I dont wheel with anyone that makes me need it.
I got to where I am at with this order.. Fist I bought 4.88's and a rear ARB. Then I put a 3" rancho on. I ran 32x10.50's for several years, but hated the rancho, so on went the 4" lift, it was only 400 or so bucks, and I did the work myself. Then I started to hate the rear coils ( I started on a 4runner), so in went the rear leaves..and out came 33 TSL's, ARB front, Allpro rear, and Allpro sliders... it went pretty much anywhere I needed to go, and then some. I like the bracket lift because I have room for 33's and chains, or 35's..and because my CV's and tie rods are at a stock angle which translates to longer lasting components and better steering. Then I swapped it all to my P/U, and aside from the springs being WAAAYYY to stiff(now sold) it still goes anywhere I need it to.
Yes I want a SAS, but more for reliability than anything...not that the IFS has given me greif...its the rear I have replaced 3 times. More travel would be also be great, but right now..not needed.
If I were to do it over, I would start with the bumpers and sliders, then gears and lockers..then figure out what I need from my suspension and rubber..I would still probally have a bracket lift, it allows dirver training to grow with the rig. A SASed toy can go more places than most newby drivers can, even open. Do you really waste any more money, yes a little...but if it takes 2 years to go from bracket to SAS then you spread 400 bucks over 2 years, thats still pretty cheap..and you get to learn your rig. A SASed rig is more puropose built, duh, and if you get caught up in the mod bug you might end up with more than you need or want....
Good luck with the build and keep us informed.... Your going to want/need gears sooner than you thing, and I am not sure I would spend any $ on 4.56's...try to find two v6 factory 4.88 3rds...
I got to where I am at with this order.. Fist I bought 4.88's and a rear ARB. Then I put a 3" rancho on. I ran 32x10.50's for several years, but hated the rancho, so on went the 4" lift, it was only 400 or so bucks, and I did the work myself. Then I started to hate the rear coils ( I started on a 4runner), so in went the rear leaves..and out came 33 TSL's, ARB front, Allpro rear, and Allpro sliders... it went pretty much anywhere I needed to go, and then some. I like the bracket lift because I have room for 33's and chains, or 35's..and because my CV's and tie rods are at a stock angle which translates to longer lasting components and better steering. Then I swapped it all to my P/U, and aside from the springs being WAAAYYY to stiff(now sold) it still goes anywhere I need it to.
Yes I want a SAS, but more for reliability than anything...not that the IFS has given me greif...its the rear I have replaced 3 times. More travel would be also be great, but right now..not needed.
If I were to do it over, I would start with the bumpers and sliders, then gears and lockers..then figure out what I need from my suspension and rubber..I would still probally have a bracket lift, it allows dirver training to grow with the rig. A SASed toy can go more places than most newby drivers can, even open. Do you really waste any more money, yes a little...but if it takes 2 years to go from bracket to SAS then you spread 400 bucks over 2 years, thats still pretty cheap..and you get to learn your rig. A SASed rig is more puropose built, duh, and if you get caught up in the mod bug you might end up with more than you need or want....
Good luck with the build and keep us informed.... Your going to want/need gears sooner than you thing, and I am not sure I would spend any $ on 4.56's...try to find two v6 factory 4.88 3rds...
Last edited by AH64ID; 07-11-2006 at 03:49 PM.
07-11-2006, 04:38 PM
#54
Registered User
Originally Posted by AH64ID
I have a 4" bracket lift and it was worth the $$. I run 35's, no BL, no rub, but trimmed. I have a ARB out back and it "pushes" me thru places the front holds me back. I would love to do a SAS, but honestly I dont wheel with anyone that makes me need it.
I got to where I am at with this order.. Fist I bought 4.88's and a rear ARB. Then I put a 3" rancho on. I ran 32x10.50's for several years, but hated the rancho, so on went the 4" lift, it was only 400 or so bucks, and I did the work myself. Then I started to hate the rear coils ( I started on a 4runner), so in went the rear leaves..and out came 33 TSL's, ARB front, Allpro rear, and Allpro sliders... it went pretty much anywhere I needed to go, and then some. I like the bracket lift because I have room for 33's and chains, or 35's..and because my CV's and tie rods are at a stock angle which translates to longer lasting components and better steering. Then I swapped it all to my P/U, and aside from the springs being WAAAYYY to stiff(now sold) it still goes anywhere I need it to.
Yes I want a SAS, but more for reliability than anything...not that the IFS has given me greif...its the rear I have replaced 3 times. More travel would be also be great, but right now..not needed.
If I were to do it over, I would start with the bumpers and sliders, then gears and lockers..then figure out what I need from my suspension and rubber..I would still probally have a bracket lift, it allows dirver training to grow with the rig. A SASed toy can go more places than most newby drivers can, even open. Do you really waste any more money, yes a little...but if it takes 2 years to go from bracket to SAS then you spread 400 bucks over 2 years, thats still pretty cheap..and you get to learn your rig. A SASed rig is more puropose built, duh, and if you get caught up in the mod bug you might end up with more than you need or want....
Good luck with the build and keep us informed.... Your going to want/need gears sooner than you thing, and I am not sure I would spend any $ on 4.56's...try to find two v6 factory 4.88 3rds...
I got to where I am at with this order.. Fist I bought 4.88's and a rear ARB. Then I put a 3" rancho on. I ran 32x10.50's for several years, but hated the rancho, so on went the 4" lift, it was only 400 or so bucks, and I did the work myself. Then I started to hate the rear coils ( I started on a 4runner), so in went the rear leaves..and out came 33 TSL's, ARB front, Allpro rear, and Allpro sliders... it went pretty much anywhere I needed to go, and then some. I like the bracket lift because I have room for 33's and chains, or 35's..and because my CV's and tie rods are at a stock angle which translates to longer lasting components and better steering. Then I swapped it all to my P/U, and aside from the springs being WAAAYYY to stiff(now sold) it still goes anywhere I need it to.
Yes I want a SAS, but more for reliability than anything...not that the IFS has given me greif...its the rear I have replaced 3 times. More travel would be also be great, but right now..not needed.
If I were to do it over, I would start with the bumpers and sliders, then gears and lockers..then figure out what I need from my suspension and rubber..I would still probally have a bracket lift, it allows dirver training to grow with the rig. A SASed toy can go more places than most newby drivers can, even open. Do you really waste any more money, yes a little...but if it takes 2 years to go from bracket to SAS then you spread 400 bucks over 2 years, thats still pretty cheap..and you get to learn your rig. A SASed rig is more puropose built, duh, and if you get caught up in the mod bug you might end up with more than you need or want....
Good luck with the build and keep us informed.... Your going to want/need gears sooner than you thing, and I am not sure I would spend any $ on 4.56's...try to find two v6 factory 4.88 3rds...
Originally Posted by tc
Totally agree. That's why I don't have any lift on my rig.
My point is that he can run 33's NOW with no additional $$$ spent, and if he has the money, it would be better spent (at this point) on armor, lockers, and fuel. The experience a couple hundred bucks worth of 'wheeling fuel buys would make more difference than anything.
Just my 2 cents and worth what you paid for it...
My point is that he can run 33's NOW with no additional $$$ spent, and if he has the money, it would be better spent (at this point) on armor, lockers, and fuel. The experience a couple hundred bucks worth of 'wheeling fuel buys would make more difference than anything.
Just my 2 cents and worth what you paid for it...
I definitely agree.
07-11-2006, 07:35 PM
#55
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I still like what my bracket lift offers.....chains on 33's is very important to the hunting I do...and that wouldnt work without a bracket lift....its all in the use.....
07-12-2006, 10:51 AM
#56
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Thread Starter
update: picked up the front axle last ngiht. so far i have spent $860 and i have the front axle, hi-steer kit, fornt hangers, rear leaf conversion kit, 63" chevys, and 4" lift front springs. now i have the shocks, hoop, regear the front, and kuckle rebuild left to buy.
07-12-2006, 02:44 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by ToferUOP
update: picked up the front axle last ngiht. so far i have spent $860 and i have the front axle, hi-steer kit, fornt hangers, rear leaf conversion kit, 63" chevys, and 4" lift front springs. now i have the shocks, hoop, regear the front, and kuckle rebuild left to buy.
Looks like your getting close to grinding. What are you doing for a shock mount in the rear (i.e. does the kit have a /\ setup)... Take your time removing the rear.. I took out a ton more when I did mine than most of the ones I have seen...saves major weight as well as looks sharper...if you go with a /\ shock setup that cross bar can replace the one that held the springs from the factory..lighter/stronger and looks better... I put some pics of my rear swap in this thread
