project dual-fuel is a go
03-03-2011, 01:12 PM
#41
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i like the idea of getting away from gasoline as well. however all the same influences on gasoline are on lpg, if you really want to explore alternate fuels diesel engines are really the way to go. even though sources of used vegetable oil to make bio out of are largely dryed up and most places want to charge a arm and a leg for there used oil where they used to pay you to get rid of it for them. diesel engines can be run off just about any type of oil if its properly processed. atf, motor oil, kerosene vegetable oil,soybean oil, canola oil hydrolic oil ect ect. (not recommended on a lot newer diesel engines as fuel systems and injectors are a lot easier damaged.) id love to some day put a 4cyl cumming in my ole yota, or maybe some sort of engine from a tractor. i bet one could see 50mpg with the right combo in a small yota pickup.
My cousin is a engineer for cumins in columbus, IN. He got a little 4cy, mechanically fuel injected, cumins diesel and is putting in a (TJ?) jeep. A machine shop is making all the converters he's designing to directly bolt up to the factory trany. They are supposed to produce them commerially once the project is do. The weight diffrence between the two motors is only like 40 lbs. It seems like a viable option. Espeically if you have a vehical witha better tranny than a jeep
03-03-2011, 03:00 PM
#42
I'm a little suprised that there are more BTU's in gas than LPG. My only experiance was on the farm my dad converted a John 4010 from gas(I think) to LPG. After the conversion the exhaust temperature increased greatly. You could see him in the feild at night, the exhaust pipe sticking out of the hood would be glowing cherry red.
03-03-2011, 04:36 PM
#45
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If you're really looking to save on fuel, buy a farm and enjoy the benefits of tax-free diesel and gasoline!
When gas gets too expensive I'm just gonna start growing switchgrass and convert to running on cellulosic ethanol. Switchgrass is one of the best plants for obtaining large amounts of biomass and is a much better alternative to using corn for producing ethanol fuel, and you can even use it to heat your home, either by burning it in pellet form or by letting it rot without allowing it oxygen (like making silage) and burning the gas that comes off it.
Hmmmmm, I wonder if a propane-based system could run off of woodgas or biogas with minimal tweaking, probably just a matter of getting the mix right.
E: Maybe we should have an alternative fuel megathread.
When gas gets too expensive I'm just gonna start growing switchgrass and convert to running on cellulosic ethanol. Switchgrass is one of the best plants for obtaining large amounts of biomass and is a much better alternative to using corn for producing ethanol fuel, and you can even use it to heat your home, either by burning it in pellet form or by letting it rot without allowing it oxygen (like making silage) and burning the gas that comes off it.
Hmmmmm, I wonder if a propane-based system could run off of woodgas or biogas with minimal tweaking, probably just a matter of getting the mix right.
E: Maybe we should have an alternative fuel megathread.
Last edited by Magnusian; 03-03-2011 at 04:52 PM.
03-03-2011, 08:29 PM
#47
hey now, this is my thread. i'd like to keep it at least propane-conversion related. i'll gladly support the megathread, just not here. i know i veered off, but i'd like to stay on-topic
please
anyway, i'm going to talk to the guy tomorrow and try to get those pics of the mixer
please
anyway, i'm going to talk to the guy tomorrow and try to get those pics of the mixer
03-04-2011, 09:48 AM
#49
ok, so i did a bit more research. propane injection might be a better option for me. here are my reasons:
-maintains dual-fuel (won't have to start a new thread)
-cheaper kits (yeah, really)
-better efficiency than gas and carb'd propane
-tunable with software
-can still go back to carb'd propane or gas
there are some downsides, but i think they shouldn't be an issue:
-i would have to tap into the intake manifold (i'll just get another from the junkyard)
-more time-consuming installation (could do it over spring break)
-loooots of wiring (again, over spring break)
i'm still researching this, but it might be better...
-maintains dual-fuel (won't have to start a new thread)
-cheaper kits (yeah, really)
-better efficiency than gas and carb'd propane
-tunable with software
-can still go back to carb'd propane or gas
there are some downsides, but i think they shouldn't be an issue:
-i would have to tap into the intake manifold (i'll just get another from the junkyard)
-more time-consuming installation (could do it over spring break)
-loooots of wiring (again, over spring break)
i'm still researching this, but it might be better...
Last edited by irab88; 03-07-2011 at 07:16 AM.
03-09-2011, 05:13 AM
#50
new plan: propane injection. not only is it better (performance-wise), but it's also cheaper. i've found a guy on ebay over in the uk who's been really helpful in answering questions. for anyone interested in doing a propane injection system on any non-carb'd engine (even a 1uz, rb), here are a few things i learned:
-you still need gasoline to get the engine started and heated up
-the negative side of the gas injector wires are cut, so they can be turned off
-kits from overseas are about half the cost of ones over here (after exchange rates)
if you want to know anything else, go ahead and ask, as i might have missed something. a pic or two later
-you still need gasoline to get the engine started and heated up
-the negative side of the gas injector wires are cut, so they can be turned off
-kits from overseas are about half the cost of ones over here (after exchange rates)
if you want to know anything else, go ahead and ask, as i might have missed something. a pic or two later
03-09-2011, 05:35 AM
#52
Registered User
hmmmm interesting, thought propane injection was just for the diesel guys. I would only assume RBX that there is a control unit for the pane kit that regrounds the injectors on startup and then ungrounds them to switch to propane.
03-09-2011, 05:42 AM
#53
there is a control module for the propane that turns off the gas injectors whole turning on the propane injectors
no problem
and yes on the second part
03-09-2011, 06:03 AM
#56
Contributing Member
Make sure you solder any wire splices or taps. Use shrink wrap on cut splices, use e-tape and zip tie on taps. Taps you don't cut the wire, just the insulation, and then push the insulation back enough to wrap the taping wire around and solder in place.
This is a Tap (white wire with black stripe is not cut):
Rewrap the wiring harness with e-tape. The zip tie on the end keeps the tape in place so it won't unwrap later.
I'd recommend you get EWDs (electrical wiring diagrams) for your exact year/model. Wire colors changed year to year and model to model.
This is a splice (red wire is completely cut and blue wire from the piggy back controller intercepts the ECU signal):
This is a Tap (white wire with black stripe is not cut):
Rewrap the wiring harness with e-tape. The zip tie on the end keeps the tape in place so it won't unwrap later.
I'd recommend you get EWDs (electrical wiring diagrams) for your exact year/model. Wire colors changed year to year and model to model.
This is a splice (red wire is completely cut and blue wire from the piggy back controller intercepts the ECU signal):
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-09-2011 at 06:56 AM.
03-09-2011, 06:18 AM
#57
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good stuff Dale, my exact procedure. I don't think some folks realize that you are essentially creating a point of failure every time you compromise wire/jacket integrity. Taking time to make the connection correct will hopefully keep the gremlins from interfering with troubleshooting issues later.
03-09-2011, 06:54 AM
#58
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Having worked on propane powered ford 300s at work, one advantage is that the the oil stays cleaner a lot longer. Even at our normal 180day oil change interval the oil still looks new.
Very cool idea.
Subscribed..
Very cool idea.
Subscribed..
03-09-2011, 07:05 AM
#59
rb- not sure about performance/mpg gains, but from what i've read it's slightly better in both categories
dale- thanks for the info. i'll look at the pictures later when i can see photoblocket. my hobby is electronics, so i'm sure i'll have no issues splicing in. also, there is an adhesive that insulates, so i'll use that instead of electrical tape (it's marketed as liquid electrical tape)
rb again- yes indeed
epco fab- thanks!
dale- thanks for the info. i'll look at the pictures later when i can see photoblocket. my hobby is electronics, so i'm sure i'll have no issues splicing in. also, there is an adhesive that insulates, so i'll use that instead of electrical tape (it's marketed as liquid electrical tape)
rb again- yes indeed
epco fab- thanks!
Last edited by irab88; 03-09-2011 at 07:37 AM.
03-09-2011, 07:26 AM
#60
Registered User
Ian, I've seen your work, A+.
I would also suggest, waterproof heat shrink. It has a glue coating inside the tubing that helps seal the ends. If you, like me, make a mistake and realize you need to redo the connection...it's easier to cut the entire connection out and start over if you have enough wire, and if not, you will enjoy peeling the weather-tight heat-shrink from the now glued wires and jacket......ask me how i know.
I would also suggest, waterproof heat shrink. It has a glue coating inside the tubing that helps seal the ends. If you, like me, make a mistake and realize you need to redo the connection...it's easier to cut the entire connection out and start over if you have enough wire, and if not, you will enjoy peeling the weather-tight heat-shrink from the now glued wires and jacket......ask me how i know.
