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NOT Head Gasket but PISTON FAILURE!!

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Old 01-19-2011, 07:43 AM
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un burnt fuel going through the exhaust will cause the exhaust manifold to glow. This is one way you melt exhaust valves. If you know how an afterburner in a jet works it's the same principle. This would be with a fair amount of unburnt fuel though. Higher compression from carbon build up will cause a higher compression ratio and can lead to pinging. Both of which cause higher combustion temps even if it's not pinging.

How do you know coolant and oil were mixing in the head? Because fuel in oil will also cause a white/greyish residue in oil, mainly on oil cap and/or dipstick.

Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 01-19-2011 at 07:47 AM.
Old 01-19-2011, 08:33 AM
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i pulled my motor apart two years ago to replace a crank and with almost 200,000 thousand miles there was still a noticeable crosshatch in the cylinders. glazed is bad and who ever said it is suypposed to be that way is mistaken. the rings will seat in the crosshatch but it needs to be there for adequate lubrication. i think you got some cheap crap pistons from your builder and should get a new motor or all the parts at least
Old 01-19-2011, 09:20 AM
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in his defense Keith Black pistons are not cheap crap.
Old 01-19-2011, 10:46 AM
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The three main things that will add to engine knocking are, to high a compression ratio( cylinder pressure), to high of a combustion chamber temp., to low octane( fuel)

Removing your EGR will make your combustion temps way higher.

Has the engine been knocking under load?

When the compression ratio is listed for pistons , its with the pistons installed in a standard engine. If excsessive material was removed from the head( or higher than stock C/R head was used) or excessive material from the block deck, the you might not know what the compression ratio really is. Its easy to check( alot of info online).

in general, running rich will make the enging run cooler, but can cause other problems down the line

(like what was said above). Why do you think the engine was running to rich?

Some large engine rebuilders wont warrenty an engine uness you get a tailpipe test after installation to make sure that the engine is not running to lean.

I have never seen a rich running engine cause piston damage like that.

Last edited by sam333; 01-20-2011 at 05:31 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 10:53 AM
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ah i see keith black pistons, touche i was wrong, do you guys think this was caused by detonation? and ill throw in with all that carbon and no egr it probably glows hot in the cylinder, the carbon, igniting fuel before the plug fires causing the detonation when the motor gets hot pulling hills and such???
Old 01-19-2011, 11:36 AM
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My bad. I should've never used the word "glazed", for in reality there is no such thing. I was simply refering to the shiny surface of properly finished cylinder walls after the honing pattern has been broken in. Possibly I should've said "semi-glazed". Still a misnomer.

CAREFUL WITH THAT HONE, EUGENE!
- by Pete Snidal (C)1999 (Revised 2003, 2007)


Synopsis: There is NO such thing as "Glaze Breaking." That's because there's no such thing, in a cylinder, as "glaze" - the word implies a deposit of foreign materials of some sort on your cylinder's surface. Unless you've been running with Teflon in your oil or some such silly thing as that, from whence would the foreign materials have come? Cylinders don't "glaze." Brake drums glaze - brake shoe material can actually become deposited on the drum surface, but cylinders don't.

No, what you've got is a smooth, polished, machine surface - just the thing for your new rings to seal against, once their high spots have been rubbed off in a careful and responsible break-in process. One which does NOT need to be preceeded by using the crudest of all the machine tools to scratch, abrade, trash, dog, bullyrag, and otherwise screw up your lovely smooth cylinder.

You see, the point is that, providing you use cast-iron piston rings, the rings will bed in to the shiny cylinder surface with few problems, and in a short time, too! Turns out that running an abrasive hone unecessarily through your cylinder will only serve to:
  • prolong the break-in process - by having created "valleys" of hone scratches in your cylinder wall, the "mountains" of which must be worn down before you get a smooth, properly-sealing cylinder wall once again. (And a considerably larger one, at that!)
  • leave some of the hone's abrasive materials in the bottom of the scratches, to leach slowly into your oil and accelerate engine wear - of ALL the engine components - for a long time to come
  • establish a new "base line" cylinder diameter to wear down to, thus ensuring that you'll end up with larger ring gaps and greater piston clearance by the time your new rings are "worn in."
  • All in all, reducing the time you'll get from that engine before the next service is required, and hastening the arrival of a need for a rebore and oversize piston.
How Do I know all this? Well, for the curious, here's the story:

The Long Version

A number of years ago, I had the privilege of studying the Automotive Arts under than excellent teacher, as part of the work toward a degree in Industrial Education at the University of British Columbia. Said teacher, one Peter Trant, was a studious kind of guy, yet also a serious wrenchead - his qualifications included actually having worked in the business for a number of years, as well as the obvious academic ones. In short, the guy knew his stuff, both in terms of hands-on activity, and bookish research and knowledge.

So did many of the rest of the class. We had a number of folk on board who were "retreading" from a life in the trades to that of the high school teacher of Industrial Ed., so there was a good mix of bookworms and hands-on guys.

The Debating Society

One day, Peter got us off to a good start as a debating society by introducing the proposition that there are three totally obsolete Old Wive's Tales in mechanics - procedures that are performed with no basis in reality, just "because." These were

lapping valves (after refacing seats and valve faces by grinding)

removing cylinder ridges

honing cylinders, or "glaze breaking" on re-ring jobs

When he told us that these are all in most cases a complete waste of time, and in many cases actually bad, a great cacaphony arose among the many, and there was much wailing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth. Not to mention arguing. A lot of these guys, myself included, had been doing these for years, and were not about to listen to this little punk tell them they'd been wasting their time. It helped a little to hear him say that he'd wasted much of his own time in these ways before his conversion, but not much. We, individually and as a group, attacked these propositions with a vengeance, but eventually all came to agree with this "new logic."


Can This Be True?

What began to help more was when he brought out the reprints of articles covering actual lab research done by the SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers - to support these claims. Yes, the SAE had actually done research to check this out, and they had been found seriously wanting. Here's how it went for honing:

A hone, you see, is a crude piece of work designed to remove metal, more or less at random. It's only necessity is as a first stage of polishing, in the case, and only in the case, of a cylinder having been rebored by a boring bar. For those of you who haven't thought much about it, let's look at what a boring bar does:

A boring bar is a piece of bar, into which is mounted a cutting tool, which is rotated inside the cylinder being rebored, while simultaneously being passed down its length. As it rotates, passing through a very tightly-controlled radius, it machine-cuts the cylinder walls to a precise diameter - within a fraction of a thousandth of an inch. In fact, if the bar setup is in good condition, any difference in radius between the start of the cut, at one end of the cylinder, and the end of the cut, at the other, will be attributable only to tool wear.

The only problem with this procedure is that, no matter how fine the "feed rate," - along the axis of the cylinder being bored - there will be a minute "threading effect" - the tool is after all cutting in a spiral. This is offset by such things as rounding the cutting edge of the tool somewhat, and by fine feed rates, but there's still a slight threading effect.

Because of this threading effect, the surface isn't entirely smooth, particularly to a piston running up and down it - across the path which had been followed by the cutting tool. For this reason, we apply a SLIGHT bit of crude technology for the finish - we run a rotating abrasive tool up and down the bore for a bit, to begin the process of polishing which will be completed by the rings and even the pistons themselves. We don't go nuts with this thing, and we certainly don't rely on it to take out major bites of material - in the thousandths, for instance. We use it only to begin the polishing process, getting out that "thread effect" and preparing the cylinder for final polishing by action of running the engine - "break-in," or "wear-in," depending on dialect.

This crude honing is not without problems which must be dealt with. First of all, it will result in further removal of material - beyond that which was done by the boring bar. This is allowed for by the machinist who sets up the bar, though - he makes the hole too tight to begin with, to allow for the extra thou or two that will be taken out with the hone. Note that this means that the pre-honed bore is too small for the piston at this point! - Although the honing will create the extra size to make for the proper clearance. (But what if you're honing a bore that's already a bit large for the piston? - The first thing to think about!)

A second problem is that the abrasive is making scratches in the cylinder, and at the bottom of these scratches will be found grindings formed by the process - fine powder of metal removed from the wall, as well as pieces of the actual abrasive itself. Needless to say, what is not removed of these will eventually mix with the oil when the machine is run, and will contribute to an accelerated wear rate until they are washed out and removed by filtration and oil changes. The SAE research found that this was a significant problem - bits of carborundum appeared in the oil for a number of changes, and the wear rate was considerably accelerated during this time. So they investigated - horror of horrors - not honing at all!

All Cylinders Don't Need Honing

This turned out not to work well in the case of rebores. First of all, there has been no threading effect of the boring bar, but rather the smooth even surface of a well-worn-in cylinder wall brought to a mirror-like finish by previous running. In fact, they found it to be as detrimental in these cases to touch that beautifully-finished cylinder with a hone as it was not to in the cases of fresh rebores!

This is not theory here. It is the conclusion of an intensive research project, involving re-ringing used bores in like engines, some being honed, or "de-glazed," as the Old Wives like to call it, and the others just having the rings replaced and the cylinders left alone. The results were the same in every case - after being run for a period of time, - the equivalent of thousands of miles of use - the honed engines IN EVERY CASE burned more oil, and upon disassembly and inspection, IN EVERY CASE had developed significantly greater clearances - piston, ring end gap, all bearings, the works - than the unhoned engines. Although not expected by many to do so, the unhoned engines in ALL cases and at ALL STAGES burned less oil, and had worn significantly less than their honed counterparts. That is the result of the research. Now for the explanation.

How Come?

When you hone a cylinder, you are running an abrasive surface up and down it. This creates random scratches, and removes metal. These scratches, miniature valleys, accumulate debris in their roots. The debris is composed of bits of expensive cylinder metal and also of carborundum and/or other grinding material - the cylinder is removing grit from the hone as the hone is removing metal from the cylinder. Moreover, you have now created a new "base level" for your cylinder after it has done its new wear-in. What remains of your previous cylinder surface, at, say, 3.100 in. is now "high spots" above your soon-to-be cylinder surface of maybe 3.104 (assuming .002 deep scratches.) And as this rough mess of peaks wears down, the metal which comes off becomes "grinding compound," polluting your oil, to wear out all your other components as well, such as bearing and even gear surfaces. And, worst of all, once the high spots have been removed, the new cylinder diameter is now .004" larger, meaning an extra .004" of piston clearance - above and beyond what was already there from the previous running!

Why would you want to pollute your engine thusly? Only because you've bought OWT #1 - you must "deglaze" your shiny, beautifully polished cylinder in order to "seat your rings." Well, it turned out that this wasn't necessary. They _did_ find that chrome rings don't seat well, if at all, in wear-polished (don't call it "glazed - that's something else again) cylinders. Turns out they need the roughness of a honed cylinder to seat properly, as both they and the cylinder go through a regrettable but necessary (only in the case of a fresh rebore!) period of wearing each other down. But polished cylinders _will_ seat cast iron rings just fine. So, in a nutshell, here's all you do: Don't hone cylinders, do use cast iron rings. If you hone, you will be treated to greater ring gap, more piston clearance, and greater engine wear as your engine goes through a completely unecessary break-in period, wearing itself back into a fit.


If you've experienced problems with oil burning after a re-ring, it's not because you didn't "de-glaze" properly, but because

you honed a cylinder that didn't need it.

your clearances on assembly were too great - ring gap, piston clearance.

your cylinder is too far gone in terms of diameter irregularity - taper, barrel-shaping, or out-of-round.

you sensibly avoided honing out that extra clearance, but mistakenly gave baby a "treat" and used the more expensive chrome rings.

Honing Is Necessary For Rebores

Now, for the case of honing with rebores. In these cases, it is a necessary evil. For this reason, assembly clearances are set in anticipation of the rapid wear which is inevitable in the first few hours of engine life. Furthermore, a great deal of care must be taken to get as much of the grindings as possible out of the bottoms of the scratches - washing with hot water and soap, repeated scrubbing with clean rags and light engine oil until the rags come out perfectly clean, such procedures will pay in reduced engine wear during the break in period, and thus a considerably tighter engine for the balance of its service.

During run-in, as the rings wear the cylinders down to the bottom of the hone scratches, the ring gaps and piston clearances are going to increase a big bunch at first. You need to change oil and filter often, as your oil will be highly polluted by the flying chunks as this process takes place. In the SAE study, engine oil analysis showed initially high production of wear metals being produced in the oil, dropping off sharply as the engine went through this stage.

In the case of the non-honed re-ring, the only wear taking place is the comparitively much milder running-in of the softer cast iron ring surfaces. As anyone who has machined it will tell you, cast iron is almost a lubricant compared to chrome moly and even wear-hardened, polished cylinder surfaces, although they are also cast iron.

Once the break-in process was completed, the findings were that there was virtually NO increase in piston clearance due to cylinder wear, and considerably less increase in ring end gap due to ring wear, since the wear is essentially limited to seating - wearing off of the high spots only. Furthermore, oil consumption was much lower, and cylinder sealng (compression test) much better. Conclusion: it's madness to hone cylinders on a simple re-ring.

Am I Too Late With This?

What to do if this news has come to you late? Such as after you've done a re-ring and found that you're having oil consumption and/or compression problems. Well, obviously, it's time to go back in there and see how much damage OWT#1 has done. Check your cylinder diameter, at both ends and in the middle in all directions, and make sure your clearances aren't too great. It's nice to do this with all the fancy bore gauges and such, but you can get a good idea by just putting a ring square in the cylinder, and checking the end gap with a feeler gauge at various places from top to bottom. A variation of .003 means one of .001 in diameter. Too much variation - more than .010 - tells me it's past time to rebore. Lots of people are fussier than I - let your service manual be your guide.

Check the piston fit in the cylinder at various places by seeing how big a feeler gauge you can get in there - preferably a wire gauge. If things aren't looking too loose, be sure this next time to use cast iron rings, verifying the ring gap for each of them at different places in the bore before installing. And, needless to say, leave that hone alone!

If you find you have to rebore, then of course you'll have to follow up with the hone. Be sure the rebore man leaves a little extra meat in the cylinder for the hone to take out - .002 is plenty, I think. And once you've honed, with the finest hone that will take out the "threads," you must be VERY careful to remove as much of that grinding compound as possible from the bottom of the grooves your crude tool has left behind. To do this, the recommended way is to scrub the cylinder repeatedly with clean rags soaked in 20 weight oil until they come out clean - and it will take a surprising number of rags for this to occur. Once they're clean, you haven't taken _all_ the grindings out, and of course, the high spots coming off will create more grinding compound, so don't be stingy on the oil filter elements or oil changes until satisfactory break-in has had time to occur.

And what will be the sign of satisfactory break-in? You guessed it - disassembly will reveal nice, smooth, shiny cylinder walls - just like the ones we used to run a hone through until they were the mess we mistakenly called "deglazing."

A Little Addendum

Got into a discussion on this on the Royal Enfield egroup the other day, and found myself adding to this. Here's how it went:

(Of course, if you're already convinced, and need no reiteration, then just click on outta here.

"Glaze" busting

On 2000-06-03 royalenfield@egroups.com said:
>Kevin!
>Thank You, I will do then a light glaze-busting.
>Risto

I will try one last time: (Don't ask me why)
1) There IS no "glaze"! That's a polished surface. Call it
"final machining" done by the last set of rings. It's a
wonderfully smooth surface of a certain size.
Microscopically, it looks like this:

| |
| |
| |
| |

2) If you run a hone through it, lightly or heavily, you rough
it up, and create low spots. It then looks like this:

\ \
/ /
\ \
/ /
\ \

Until it "runs in" to a new bigger size that looks like
this:

| |
| |
| |
| |
| |

3) Your new rings, and your piston, must get the surface
smooth again, by wearing down the high spots (what is
left of the old polished surface - NOT a "glaze" -to the
level of the low spots. This results in

a) accelerated wear of all engine parts, due to the
"grinding compound" effect of the metal being worn
off as your cyinder is ground to the oversize of the
bottom of the wear spots - as well as the GCE of the
abrasive residue which will inevitably be left in the
low spots - at the bottom of the grooves created by
the unnecessary hone.

b) A final (after break-in) size of the cylinder being
larger, the piston being smaller, and the ring gaps
being larger once this unnecessary abuse of your
surfaces has been completed.

I've told you that the reason I stopped honing polished bores, and
using cast-iron rings on rering jobs was because the SAE research
report found that identical engines treated both ways, and then
run for a fairly long interval after reassembly showed that:

a) The "deglazed engines" showed lower compression and
significantly greater wear upon being dissassembled and
examined than those which were not "deglazed."

b) The "deglazed" engines oil consumption was higher during
the so-called "breakin" period than that of the others, and
continued to be higher throughout the virtual service life.
(These were test bed engines.)

c) Periodic compression checks revealed that at all stages, the
compression on the deglazed[sic] engines was lower.

Furthermore, I've also said that I've built many engines since that
day in 1969, and I've never had a problem with bad ring sealing, poor
compression, or oil burning on any engine I've done since that time -
although I did have some troubles of this sort with engines I DID
"deglaze" before that.

And finally: there is no such thing as "deglazing." Honing is a
final process used to take the boring bar marks down to a smoother
(smoother, not smooth) surface after machining. The machinist
purposely bores slightly oversize, to allow for the metal the hone is
going to take out, and hones to a slight oversize, to allow for the
metal that is inevitably going to be lost as the piston and rings
take out the high spots left by the hone.

So what more do you need? Join HA (honer's anonymous) today! (My name's Pete Snidal, and I'm a honer.) Become a recovering honer, and enjoy less trouble and longer rering life! Or don't - see if _I_ care!
http://www.snowvalley.20m.com/bikes/dnthone.htm

Last edited by MudHippy; 01-19-2011 at 12:54 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by blake.nemitz
ah i see keith black pistons, touche i was wrong, do you guys think this was caused by detonation? and ill throw in with all that carbon and no egr it probably glows hot in the cylinder, the carbon, igniting fuel before the plug fires causing the detonation when the motor gets hot pulling hills and such???
No. Detonation/pre-ignition/pinging/spark knock is very noticeable when severe enough to cause piston damage. If he didn't notice it, then it likely didn't occur.
Old 01-19-2011, 11:45 AM
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wow mud hippy i have been educated, what about reaming ridges on the top of cylinders, why is this bad?
Old 01-19-2011, 12:06 PM
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I'm not sure that it is bad. I've never heard the opposing side to that debate. All I can say is that in alot of/most cases it isn't necessary. Basically the only reason to do it would be because you can't remove the old pistons and rings. Because the ring ridge is steep enough to prevent the rings from passing over it without damaging them or the piston in the process. Which is a very rare occurance. It probably almost never really happens.

But many people insist on doing it as a preventative measure. In theory so that you could possibly reuse the pistons, that could be damaged in the process of removal. So, some can still argue that it was necessary. Because they did it, and the pistons weren't damaged. Whether it was necessary or not. The question is, "did you try and remove them first, before coming to that conclusion?". Answer, probably not.

I've never done it. And haven't had that problem. But I might consider it if:

1. I wanted to reuse the pistons.

And...

2. I could feel with my finger tip that the ring ridge was not only significant in height, but with a sharp edge to it. That I'd judge to be a cause for concern while removing the pistons. As the rings might catch on it, instead of gliding over it harmlessly. Like they always do, in my experience.

One more...

3. I couldn't get the pistons out otherwise. As in, if the first one became so badly hung up on removal that it would be alot easier to just remove the ring ridges. Not necessarily to be able to reuse the pistons, just that forcing them out would be significantly more hassle than if the ridge wasn't there.

Last edited by MudHippy; 01-19-2011 at 12:19 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 12:12 PM
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This guy has still yet to answer the question what his valves looked like. My carb'd truck didn't even have that much carbon build up at ~170,000 miles.

Still not sure if I agree with the cyl walls shiney or not though as I have now seen both statements.

I wonder if I call my machinist if they can tell me. Heck they have been building race motors forever.
Old 01-19-2011, 01:36 PM
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All I can add to what's been stated already on the subject of cylinder bore finish is this:

The function of the oil control rings is to lubricate the cylinder walls. They capture, hold, and dispense the correct quantity of oil needed to provide adequate lubrication for all of the piston rings. To say that scratches in the cylinder wall are used for lubricating or sealing the piston rings is misleading to say the least.

To say that "A bore that has a totally smooth surface is one where the rings have never seated, and will suffer from low compression, and excessive blow by", is just plain asinine.
Old 01-19-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MudHippy
My bad. I should've never used the word "glazed", for in reality there is no such thing. I was simply refering to the shiny surface of properly finished cylinder walls after the honing pattern has been broken in. Possibly I should've said "semi-glazed". Still a misnomer.


http://www.snowvalley.20m.com/bikes/dnthone.htm
No shop that I have worked in , or ever heard of( not in the last 30 years anyway ) laps valves after grinding.

If a cylinder has a ridge large enough to feel or break a ring when removing pistons, it needs to be bored oversized. If you installed new rings with the ridge inplace, there is a good chance you will break a ring during brake in.

Cylinders should always be honed before intalling new rings( unless the ring manufacturer says otherwise) All ring manufacturers give a required surface finish for proper break in and ring lubrication.

If you cant keep the honing grit out of the engine , then it needs to be pulled and disassembled.

If honing is going to remove enough material that the cylinders are out of spec then they need to be bored oversized.Flexable hones / bottle brushes remove very little material to get a proper finish.

I see no sources listed for that article.

Last edited by sam333; 01-19-2011 at 07:37 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 02:01 PM
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I was always. Under the impression that somehow the oil "caramelized" on the cylinder wall and allowed for blowby.
But now I know.
Old 01-19-2011, 02:29 PM
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Thank to sam and zartt for injecting sanity into this bull laden diatribe about honing.I have seen crosshatch at 200k.And cast iron rings would seat in any cylinder,because they are soft.Thats why they are called quickseater rings.I have seen both sides of the argument about honing or not,but you cant remove .004 with a dingleberry hone..Those pretty little scratches hold oil for lubrication,so thats why we do it.Carbon buildup causing broken pistons?Why dont you blame the easter bunny.Or UFO's.I have never seen carbon buildup destroy a motor.Maybe make it run bad.But thats why we decarbonize them.When you start repeating bad info it doesnt make it true.I have seen pistons break.Sometimes its a casting fracture.Maybe shoddy QC at Black pistons.I am willing to bet the end gap wasnt set correctly and the rings butted each other.Weak point then becomes thinnest part of piston.OER should be shipping you a new motor with a labor reimbursment.Check silvolites web page.Maybe forward to OER.And have them fire the guy that put your motor together.

Last edited by vital22re; 01-19-2011 at 03:55 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 02:36 PM
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There's BS, then there's what you <expletive deleted> will believe. Which makes BS smell like roses!


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Old 01-19-2011, 02:38 PM
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Pinging WILL destroy a piston plain and simple. If you don't know that then do not ever touch a carb'd truck or screw with you afm. EVER.

If you don't also know that carbon build up can lead to pinging, better get to reading. As you got alot to learn.

A rich motor will cause carbon buildup over an extended amount of time 45K miles is a lot for a motor to be running rich.

In this type of case running rich will cause the engine to ping. But not immediately.

Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 01-19-2011 at 02:39 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 02:40 PM
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Call gm.My corvette wont break in because its full of mobil 1.Get porsche on the phone too.Wait maybe it was my improper break in procedure.I Should have worn a special hat!Your reasoning sir,reeks of excrement.The sad thing is on the internet,even the mistaken can get an audience.

Last edited by tim a.; 01-19-2011 at 02:43 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 02:42 PM
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Proove me wrong.

oh wait a second here these engines leave the factory with synthetic in them but do you know what happens with these motors before they leave the factory, let me guess, you have no clue.

It's called break in oil and the engine is already broken in before leaving the factory, and the breakin procedure is different with a brand new motor then it is on a rebuilt.

As well as manufactures run these motors for at least a half hour before leaving the factory as well. Why? To break in the cams. You Cannot break in ANY cam with synthetic oil. Why do you have to break in a cam and without synthetic oil? Because you WILL cause a flat spot in the cam.

Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 01-19-2011 at 02:48 PM.
Old 01-19-2011, 02:54 PM
  #39  
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Who said carbon doesnt cause pinging or piston damage.Read before you type mr xxx.Big difference between playing mechanic on the internet and making a living with a wrench.Why would running rich cause an engine to ping?Ping is detonation.It can be caused by lean mixtures or low octane,but a rich condition.Not likely.And pinging bad enough to only damage two cylinders.Seems to me in a four cylinder engine if it was pinging that bad all pistons would be damaged.Im not sure what carbs or screw with my AFM is in regard too,but I will gladly school you in any other mechanical issues that confuse you.Just open your mouth ,baby bird...
Old 01-19-2011, 03:10 PM
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you need to reread what I said. And maybe type in paragraphs and not bricks and use proper punctuation. Like spaces after you periods.

RICH = Carbon Build up especially running 45,000 miles like that.

Guess what that carbon build up does? Builds up on the pistons. What happens when it builds up on pistons? It changes the size of the combustion chamber. Makes it smaller. What happens when you make a combustion chamber smaller? Compression ratio goes up. What happens when compression ratio goes up? It can cause detonation/pre-ignition which is pinging. He's already running higher than stock compression with those pistons.

As far as why not all pistons, well, the intakes typically get more air in the front of the motor then the back of the motor. When running on the ragged edge of compression ratio just a little bit more air in the cyl can cause pre-igntion in just a few cyl's. Guess which ones he had problems with? #1 and #2 the front ones.

This is one of the reasons why if your gonna run high amounts of nitrous though a motor you do not use a fogger system, you use a direct port system. Because in a fogger system your front few cyls will typically get more fuel/nitrous then the back side of the motor causing alot of problems.

Oh and I blew up a 4cyl motor on an accidental nitrous dump about a 300 shot straight off the solenoid when a jet had fallen out. I only shattered two pistons, cracked one and another one was untouched. so much for your theory on why not all pistons. Guess which two were shattered? #1 and #2, which one was cracked? #3. Which one was untouched? #4.

Don't even go into mechanical knowledge either, you have no clue. I highly highly doubt you would have even made it though some of the mechanical schooling I have had.

Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 01-19-2011 at 03:12 PM.


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