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Some history of truck, completely rebuilt engine and transmission, new PS pump and all that too. There is no leaks at all. I have redone all of my ground wires too with thicker 4 gauge wire..
So the title of the thread pretty much states my issue. I have been getting my starters from rockauto.com. They are Reman Denso units.
First starter (came with the truck but it was a denso): wouldn't engage all the way and it made that grinding noise against flywheel. (This was was most likely due to age)
Second starter:
worked great for about 4-5 months until summer hit. When I would drive the truck for an hour or more and shut it off, it will not start again, just a single click and thats it. Unless I get a hammer and tap it a bunch.
(My thought is the heat is expanding a part inside of the starter cause it not to kick out, then my tapping frees it up just enough)
Third and current starter (one month old):
Installed this one and it worked great for about a week.. Then I start it up one day and hear that wonderful grinding noise from not fully engaging. I passed it off as a one time thing. Another couple weeks and it has done it probably 8 more times.
Do they just replace a single part on reman starters and then just throw them back together? I am pretty frustrated because the 3VZ starters SUCK to get in.
It has crossed my mind that maybe my wiring to the starter is faulty so I measured 12.10V at the battery.. Next I left one lead on ground part of battery and positive lead to the starter. 12.10V. I got someone to crank truck and the voltage dropped to about 10V while cranking. I believe 9.5V is the minimum you can have?
Should I just buy a "new" starter instead of a "reman"? Or is there any other tests I should perform before getting a new one?
12.1 volts at the battery indicates a non-fully charged battery.
you need to search yota-tech for "click no start" to find the solution to the problem. HINT: the starter is very unlikely to be the problem.
It was at 12.4 this morning but the truck has also sat a couple days without being started. I started it a few times to see if it would grind again but it didn’t. maybe that’s why it was 12.1?
But the click no start is no longer my problem. The start just doesn’t engage fully, it will make that grinding noise. I am just wondering if that could be a voltage problem?
Please always indicate model-year-engine-TRANSMISSION-trim when describing problem.
Originally Posted by maxvp01
... The start just doesn’t engage fully, it will make that grinding noise. I am just wondering if that could be a voltage problem?
If your starter solenoid does not get full power, it may not actuate all the way and cause poor engagement.
Your cranking system is most likely flawed as many Pre 1996 trucks. Search "ClickNoCrank" as suggested above.
If your starter solenoid does not get full power, it may not actuate all the way and cause poor engagement.
Your cranking system is most likely flawed as many Pre 1996 trucks. Search "ClickNoCrank" as suggested above.
Okay i’ll make that SST you have in another one of your posts to connect the starter solenoid to the B+. I should just keep activating solenoid and see if it grinds, that would rule out my wiring above and make the starter the culprit.
When you say my starting system is most likely flawed, I read that it was only for the 22RE models in your “clicknostart” thread. I didn’t see anything about the 3VZE unless I missed something?
The main reason why I was thinking it could be another starter is because each starter was a different problem.
#1 grinded 60% of the time, and started every time
#2 did not grind at all, solenoid would just not engage after getting hot
#3 grinds periodically, but starts every time
I will report back once solenoid test is complete. Thank you guys for the replies, I have also added my transmission and trim to original post.
I have also added my transmission and trim to original post.
add them to your signature, so we don't have to scroll back up every time to "remember" what you have. especially good for long threads/multiple pages that go on for months.
There are several items in the ignition start sequence that will cause voltage drop and prevent full and strong engagement of the starter.
First is the ignition switch itself, its old go ahead and replace this for reliability sake.
Next is the starter relay, this is activated by the clutch pedal switch (it can be bypassed by the start cancel button to the left of the steering wheel)
Last is to the starter solenoid.
If any if the contacts inside of any of these items have worn contacts you will have voltage drop resulting the the starter solenoid not having enough ass to fully engage.
To test this theory you want to use a volt meter set to dc volts. Put the common lead( ground/ black) to the negative battery terminal.
Next put the positive (red) lead on the little wire on the starter and have someone crank the engine. less than 12.0 volts is an issue.
add them to your signature, so we don't have to scroll back up every time to "remember" what you have. especially good for long threads/multiple pages that go on for months.
Originally Posted by maxvp01
...I have also added my transmission and trim to original post.
Thanks for adding info.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 09-26-2021 at 07:27 PM.
Has any kind of alarm system or ignition-kill ever been installed?
If the vehicle has one that was poorly installed, or removed and the wires reconnected with less-than-great connectors, rather than soldered, it may have created a voltage drop large enough to impact the starter. Just a thought.
There are several items in the ignition start sequence that will cause voltage drop and prevent full and strong engagement of the starter.
First is the ignition switch itself, its old go ahead and replace this for reliability sake.
Next is the starter relay, this is activated by the clutch pedal switch (it can be bypassed by the start cancel button to the left of the steering wheel)
Last is to the starter solenoid.
If any if the contacts inside of any of these items have worn contacts you will have voltage drop resulting the the starter solenoid not having enough ass to fully engage.
To test this theory you want to use a volt meter set to dc volts. Put the common lead( ground/ black) to the negative battery terminal.
Next put the positive (red) lead on the little wire on the starter and have someone crank the engine. less than 12.0 volts is an issue.
Hm by the looks of it my relay and my ignition switch are both original however there is no way to tell. It will be worth replacing as preventative maintenance for the reliability factor as you said. I will test the voltage drop on solenoid today.
Also I spent an hour last night trying to figure out how to edit my signature. Even found a thread saying where to find it. I followed where it said the signature would be and I didn't see where it said it would be. I checked every control panel setting I could see. Maybe I need a computer, I use my phone for yotatech 99% of the time. I will check those settings again when I have access to a computer.
Jimkola,
No aftermarket alarm or ignition kill switch has been installed to my knowledge. I have not seen any evidence of one either.
The 1st gen 4Runners and 2nd gen Supra’s were constantly getting stolen and stripped of their interiors. If you own a old 4Runner and the rear seat brackets have parts stickers on them theirs a good chance yours is a recovered vehicle. So alarms got pretty popular with these units..
Yeah, the signature edit is a pain to find. Why you can’t edit in the profile is silly.
In the upper right is your profile picture, and next to that is a pull down tab. Click the tab. Then click “control panel”
Along the left column there’s a link to edit signature.
I’m curious, what was the part number of the rockauto starter?
The 1st gen 4Runners and 2nd gen Supra’s were constantly getting stolen and stripped of their interiors. If you own a old 4Runner and the rear seat brackets have parts stickers on them theirs a good chance yours is a recovered vehicle. So alarms got pretty popular with these units..
Yeah, the signature edit is a pain to find. Why you can’t edit in the profile is silly.
In the upper right is your profile picture, and next to that is a pull down tab. Click the tab. Then click “control panel”
I’m curious, what was the part number of the rockauto starter?
Okay, I did the solenoid voltage drop test and every time truck starts it drops to about 9.5V, however it could be because of my SST I built inspired by RAD4RuNNER. The wire I used for it may not have been big enough because the crimp on ends can't handle the size wire I do have. Unfortunately I do have covid (100% symptom free luckily) and can't walk into the store and get some bigger crimp on connectors so it may take a few days to order some.
This is a toyota pickup, but luckily I have the interior out and one of the rear jump seats does have a sticker on it.
As for the denso reman part number here is the pic of it on the truck ("280-0103"). Crossed referenced and it matches to listing on rockauto.com too.
The reading I got from solenoid voltage drop is definitely concerning especially since it should stay right at 12. I think it's that low because of the wire I used, but my ignition switch and relay are most likely long overdue. (The starter did not grind when solenoid had 9.5V on it during test)
Getting the right size wire would be first. I like getting the wire from the marine store. Costs a bit more, but seems higher grade. I also use brass connectors. They’ll give you a bit better conductivity. I went so far as to order a bunch of the brass Yazaki terminal ends from Easternbeaver.com. Very reasonable but he does ship out of Japan.
that part sticker is one I don’t recognize. Definitely not one put on by a Toyota parts depot
Sorry, I did not know about the R transmission codes; I like to keep things simple; Auto or manual
Originally Posted by maxvp01
Okay, I did the solenoid voltage drop test and every time truck starts it drops to about 9.5V, ...The starter did not grind when solenoid had 9.5V on it during test)
It is normal for voltage to drop when loaded with solenoid current and starter motor current. Could you confirm that you consistently crank normally when starter solenoid control is directly connected to battery?
1989's were also wired wrong at the factory. I suggest you find your starter relay so we can verify. You can tell from wire colors to see which schematic below applies to your truck.
1989, 22RE, Manual (cr@ves4wheelin@yotatech)
1989-1992 4Runner V6, 1989-1990 Pickup V6 (schematic shared by DrCreosotes@yotatech)
Have you looked at your fusible link?
Mine had been cut for an after market battery terminal, was hard as a rock and would lose almost 2 volts across it when trying to start.
I replaced them, (the one in the fuse box too), with Toyota oem parts and lots of things went away...dim headlights, slow windows, poor radio quality....click no start!
All Gone!
[QUOTE=RAD4Runner;52468737]Could you confirm that you consistently crank normally when starter solenoid control is directly connected to battery?
I believe I have solved the problem. I hadn't posted in a while because I wanted to make sure this in fact was the cause. Well I was about to perform the test quoted above that RAD4Runner described and I noticed from a different angle my starter didn't look square to the bellhousing. I wiggled it to make sure it was tight-- it was. So before I performed the test with the solenoid to the battery I pulled the starter back out. There was a small nick in the bellhousing that caused about 1/16th of an inch of aluminum protruding out (I actually measured it lol). Well I got a file and filed the excess down until I got it square with my straight edge.
I put it all back together, and jumped the solenoid to the battery several times. It didn't grind at all during those tests. So then I test drove until now with still no grinding when starting. I think I would call that a success.
I guess something had fallen on the bellhousing during the rebuilds, or maybe it was nicked while going in. Possible it was like that the entire time because the Denso starter that came with the truck would grind too, the mileage was unknown on that one though.
I took up the suggestion on replacing the starter relay for preventative maintenance. $10 for a Denso one isn't bad. I will be looking into replacing the ignition switch for the same preventative maintenance reason too.
Originally Posted by 86SR5PU
Have you looked at your fusible link?
I have not yet looked at the fusible link, but I read up on some forums after you mentioned it. My headlights are definitely dim at night, so its possible that is contributing to that. That would also probably be a good preventative maintenance item to go ahead and change as well.
Originally Posted by Jimkola
Getting the right size wire would be first. I like getting the wire from the marine store. Costs a bit more, but seems higher grade. I also use brass connectors. They’ll give you a bit better conductivity. I went so far as to order a bunch of the brass Yazaki terminal ends from Easternbeaver.com. Very reasonable but he does ship out of Japan.
that part sticker is one I don’t recognize. Definitely not one put on by a Toyota parts depot
I checked out easternbeaver.com and there is some good stuff on there! I think I will have to try that out for when I get some terminal ends for when I wire up my auxiliary lights! The marine stores also carry nice auxiliary fuse boxes that would be perfect for accessories. A lot of them come with spots for relays too which is really nice.
I have also edited my signature on the website so now it should be easier for everyone to see what I have
...
I took up the suggestion on replacing the starter relay for preventative maintenance. $10 for a Denso one isn't bad. I will be looking into replacing the ignition switch for the same preventative maintenance reason too.
My headlights are definitely dim at night, so its possible that is contributing to that. That would also probably be a good preventative maintenance item to go ahead and change as well.
Nevertheless, INSPECT/MEASURE your fusible link for voltage drop.
Everything off.
Multi-meter in volts DC mode.
One probe on side of fusible link wire close to battery, the other on opposite end. What voltage do you see?
Now turn high-beams. Now what voltage do you read?
I hope other members can do same so we see what is typical voltage drop across FL.
I have also edited my signature on the website so now it should be easier for everyone to see what I have
Awesome! Saves everybody time. I hope you have noticed that manual and auto transmissions may have slightly different electrical schematic. That matters when it comes to troubleshooting.
09-24-2021, 08:53 AM
