Odin

That's pretty cool you two, always like to see this kind of stuff on forums.

JagerFiend

Ground strap/wire from solenoid to motor missing?

Sometimes they expect you to recycle the old one.

Additionally, check the throw of the solenoid armature. If the solenoid isn't allowed full travel it will not make contact internally and you won't get power to the motor. Try shimming the starter out away from the flywheel.

RAD4Runner

I do not see an answer to this simple question ^^^ that would tell you whether problem is electrical or mechanical.

Odin

Oops. wrong thread

Oatmeal

I went through this EXACT same ordeal with my 85.
Checked voltage at the battery to starter cable connection and got full battery voltage, checked voltage at the solenoid activation wire while the misses turned the key to start position and got full battery voltage too......hmmmm
Was about ready to give up and decided to remove and clean the positive battery cable (looked fine) and bam! fired right up and has been working great since!
So, don't overlook the obvious, you might have enough voltage but not the amperage to get things rolling.
Hope this helps : )
Hans
Oh and the fuel pump problem is most likely a missing/not connected engine to body ground strap.
Been there, done that too!

Odin

That's great but the voltage test only tells part of the story.

What you guys with starter and alternator problems really need to do is clean all your power and ground connections no matter what shape you think they're in.
When I start having problems in those area's it's the first thing I do. In some cases it only takes a little corrosion to effect a circuit and with our wimpy 6 gauge battery cables I suspect that's the case quite often.
If you haven't cleaned the wire and the area of the part it's connected to with a wire brush or something of the sort and made it shiny all bets are off.
Adding a little dielectric grease or Deox-IT before reattachment will help keep problems away.

The second step for me is a Voltage Drop Test.
Unlike simply testing for voltage performing a Voltage Drop Test tells you how much loss there is from between two points and can sometimes pinpoint things easier.

Unlike a regular voltage test when performing a voltage drop test BOTH test leads are connected to only one side of the circuit. That is, if you want to test the NEG side both leads have to be connected to the NEG circuit.
Also, it doesn't matter if your gauge gives you a negative or positive reading, you're still going to get the numbers you need and that's lost voltage.
The noted acceptable loss on the NEG side is .200V but I like to see much less.
The noted acceptable loss for the POS side is up to .5V but remember LOWER READINGS ON BOTH SIDES IS DESIRABLE.

Rather than explain how to do it here's a couple video's that explain it in detail and the second one shows real results.




Notice in this video the connector they clean up doesn't look like it's in that bad of shape but cleaning it fixed their particular problem.





As mentioned this can also be done with the alternator and here's a vid for that. Make sure you're running your heater, headlights, stereo and other accessories when performing the alternator test.

Fast Forward to 4:25

RAD4Runner

Nice videos, Odin. Thanks! Happy New Year!

McMagical Eng.

Followup!
I had a little time over the break to work on Jankey McTruckerson. WOW were those grounds bad... and non existent in some cases. The one from the engine hoist hook to the firewall was completely corroded away to the point it had fallen off. The guy who I purchased the truck from had apparently installed whatever wires he had lying around, wherever he felt like putting them. The gauges were all too small and most were not properly connected or crimped. Every time I "fixed" a ground it would lead me to finding another bad ground.
Now it has a lot of shiny new wiring and the starter turned over last night FINALLY! Ooh, and my dome light started working again.

The motor did not turn over however, so I am back to checking the fuel pump circuit to find whatever relay is not working. At least one problem is solved for now.

Thanks for all the help! It was really great to get such fast responses and good suggestions.
Happy New Year!
~McMagical Eng.~

Odin

I'm actually happy that you did that!
Now you can get to tracking down a specific problem that's more of a mystery instead of something that's pretty much expected and normal for any vehicle that's been used for 15 years or more.

Does the Check Engine Light come on when you try to start it?
Even with a normally functioning truck it should come on every time you attempt to start it. If everything's good it will go out once it's started. If the Check Engine Light never light's up the bulb could be burned out. If that's the case you'll want to check the codes because it could be trying to alert you to something. I'd do it regardless.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TroubleCodes/

bswarm

Toyota starters never need to be replaced. The only thing that goes wrong is the brushes wear down causing a no start/only clicks condition. The brushes are $15 at most (I got them for as low as $5) and are behind the gold cover held on by 3 screws at the back of the starter motor. Sometimes you also have to dress the shaft the brushes rub against with fine sandpaper if they're rough. If you can remove and replace the starter (which you have to do to replace them) you can replace the brushes. Just be careful with the insulators at the terminals, make sure everything goes back the way it came off. There is no soldering required, it's all bolt on stuff here. I've never had to get a crappy rebuilt and offered that option to my customers also, which were happy with it since it was at least $100 cheaper.

McMagical Eng.

Resolution. Sweet Sweet resolution! Here is how it all went down.

My landlord came over today after I got back from a long weekend trip, with news that our parking lot is getting re-paved... Tomorrow.

panic mode.

Jankey McTruckerson was still firmly parked.

I put on my headlamp, slammed a redbull, thanked the rain gods for letting up a bit tonight and headed out.

I had replaced all the grounds last weekend, an increasingly interesting project of exploration into the poor wiring job from previous owners. I actually found that ground #4 (from the wiring harness to the manifold bolt) was indeed intact, but connected to the wrong bolt and entirely corroded.

After I putting in all new grounds, the starter finally jumped to life!
wrrr. wrrrr. wrrrr. wrrr. nada.

Tried a few shots of ether in the air intake. wrrr wrrr Vrooooooom wrrrr. wrrr.

good spark!

So now, my fuel pump wouldn't pump! I know I have a good fuel pump. It tested fine. But jumpering the diagnostic pins no longer worked. I checked the starter relay, checked the wiring from the fuel tank all the way to the relays. I checked EFI relay and the fuse... and the fuse.

The fuse was not burned out, but the connection looked a little off kilter. I wiggled the fuse and VRRRRRR, fuel pump ENGAGED. The connection to the fuse itself was actually melted and corroded.

I jumpered the pins and started her up. Jankey lives.

Upon further inspection, the COR is actually full of water. I pulled it out and can see that it will need replacement before she will run without the jumper. I will have to replace the fuse connector in the box and am going to 3d print a new lid for the fuse box and diagnostics panel to keep them dry in the future.

Thank you everyone for all of the help, this has been a serious ordeal for the last several months. I am looking forward to a weekend of driving in the mountains instead of riding my bike in the rain to the parts store.

Truck on,
McMagical Eng.

Odin

Ok, there's a new abbreviation for me. What is the COR?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Your Kidding Right??

COR Circuit Opening Relay you know the thingy that sends that stuff to the fuel pump to make it spin if every thing else works like it should.

McMagical Eng.

Circuit opening relay. The ECU checks the VAFM and ignition power and then lets the fuel injection work through this relay. If it doesn't sense that air is flowing after about 2 seconds once you start the car, it shuts down the fuel pump. A safety feature to keep fires from starting if you were to get into a collision.

Mine was hanging upside down under a leaky windshield in Seattle. Hopefully I can get the new one in this evening.

Odin

lol Right right.
I even did a small search, I think everyone BUT me knew lol

Keep in mind this truck is the newest vehicle I've worked on.
I'll crawl back into my hole now.







It's so dark in here...