ITM parts
09-28-2019, 07:28 PM
#1
ITM parts
I did a full rebuild 22re about 7 years ago. Haven't had a single problem until now. Back then I used a new loaded cylinder head from rock auto. I can't remember which brand. Otherwise I used all oem toyota/ osk/ Aisin parts and that has payed off. After 80,000 miles the timing system is still intact and working fine. The camshaft and rockers however are trashed. I need to replace these parts now. And, while stuff is apart it makes sense to replace the head gasket and timing tensioner and timing cover gaskets. My OSK timing tensioner is still working but has some visible wear and theres no point in doing this job again any time soon.
Im going with an ITM cam and rockers from rock auto because this stuff is my only affordable option. I could also go with an ITM head gasket and ITM timing tensioner. Instinct tells me to source an oem head gasket and osk timing tensioner. But getting everything ITM from rock auto is cheap and easy.
Has anyone used much ITM stuff? Is it safe to use their tensioners/ head gaskets/ camshafts and rockers?
Im going with an ITM cam and rockers from rock auto because this stuff is my only affordable option. I could also go with an ITM head gasket and ITM timing tensioner. Instinct tells me to source an oem head gasket and osk timing tensioner. But getting everything ITM from rock auto is cheap and easy.
Has anyone used much ITM stuff? Is it safe to use their tensioners/ head gaskets/ camshafts and rockers?
Last edited by the171; 10-06-2019 at 06:08 AM.
09-29-2019, 07:36 AM
#2
Registered User
The ITM parts will work, but when it comes to parts you always have to remember, you get what you pay for. I have used ITM parts in the past on my 20R and they all work fine. However my truck sees less than 6K miles a year. If yours is a daily driver or you are doing any offroading, I'd go with higher quality parts. They'll hold up longer & work better than the cheaper parts & you won't be tearing your engine down again anytime soon to fix or replace a failing/failed part.
Did a little research on Rock Auto on the parts. The story is in the parts warranties. Looking at Timing Sets, the ITM parts have a 90 day/3000 mile warranty, while the "name brand" parts (Mellling, Cloyes) are 1 year or better. Mellings is 1 year with no mileage limit, Cloyes offers a Limited Lifetime Warranty. I've often found that the warranty info is a good indicator of the items quality, and I always buy the best I can afford. Some 3 month warranty parts I've used have been utter trash & failed within 6 months. I've never has a quality part with a 1 year or more warranty do that to me, ever.
I wouldn't worry about replacing the tensioner. OSK is Japanese made & high end quality so it should be fine for a long time to come. Besides, I seem to recall that one of the guides moves to take up slack due to wear as well? Not sure why you want to replace the head gasket again.
Did a little research on Rock Auto on the parts. The story is in the parts warranties. Looking at Timing Sets, the ITM parts have a 90 day/3000 mile warranty, while the "name brand" parts (Mellling, Cloyes) are 1 year or better. Mellings is 1 year with no mileage limit, Cloyes offers a Limited Lifetime Warranty. I've often found that the warranty info is a good indicator of the items quality, and I always buy the best I can afford. Some 3 month warranty parts I've used have been utter trash & failed within 6 months. I've never has a quality part with a 1 year or more warranty do that to me, ever.
I wouldn't worry about replacing the tensioner. OSK is Japanese made & high end quality so it should be fine for a long time to come. Besides, I seem to recall that one of the guides moves to take up slack due to wear as well? Not sure why you want to replace the head gasket again.
09-29-2019, 08:13 AM
#3
The ITM parts will work, but when it comes to parts you always have to remember, you get what you pay for. I have used ITM parts in the past on my 20R and they all work fine. However my truck sees less than 6K miles a year. If yours is a daily driver or you are doing any offroading, I'd go with higher quality parts. They'll hold up longer & work better than the cheaper parts & you won't be tearing your engine down again anytime soon to fix or replace a failing/failed part.
Did a little research on Rock Auto on the parts. The story is in the parts warranties. Looking at Timing Sets, the ITM parts have a 90 day/3000 mile warranty, while the "name brand" parts (Mellling, Cloyes) are 1 year or better. Mellings is 1 year with no mileage limit, Cloyes offers a Limited Lifetime Warranty. I've often found that the warranty info is a good indicator of the items quality, and I always buy the best I can afford. Some 3 month warranty parts I've used have been utter trash & failed within 6 months. I've never has a quality part with a 1 year or more warranty do that to me, ever.
I wouldn't worry about replacing the tensioner. OSK is Japanese made & high end quality so it should be fine for a long time to come. Besides, I seem to recall that one of the guides moves to take up slack due to wear as well? Not sure why you want to replace the head gasket again.
Did a little research on Rock Auto on the parts. The story is in the parts warranties. Looking at Timing Sets, the ITM parts have a 90 day/3000 mile warranty, while the "name brand" parts (Mellling, Cloyes) are 1 year or better. Mellings is 1 year with no mileage limit, Cloyes offers a Limited Lifetime Warranty. I've often found that the warranty info is a good indicator of the items quality, and I always buy the best I can afford. Some 3 month warranty parts I've used have been utter trash & failed within 6 months. I've never has a quality part with a 1 year or more warranty do that to me, ever.
I wouldn't worry about replacing the tensioner. OSK is Japanese made & high end quality so it should be fine for a long time to come. Besides, I seem to recall that one of the guides moves to take up slack due to wear as well? Not sure why you want to replace the head gasket again.
would you condsider this timing tensioner ok to reinstall? 80,000 miles on it. My plastic guides seem fine. I could replace it with a new ITM tensioner as part of my order from rock auto for around $15. Getting a new osk tensioner is currently not feasible.
Im thinking about changing the head gasket because pulling the rockers means pulling the head studs. Although I could just torque it back down and hope for the best. I havent removed the manifolds or lifted the head.
Last edited by the171; 09-29-2019 at 08:16 AM.
09-30-2019, 03:52 AM
#4
Registered User
The timing tensioner is good to reuse. If I was you I would try to locate a used stock cam and rocker assembly that is in good working shape. As far as I know the only place to get rockers that will last are from LCE or 209yota.com. These are usually resurfaced OEM parts.
I would all so inspect your rocker shafts for wear and make sure the oiling holes are clear.
209 Yota rockers
I would all so inspect your rocker shafts for wear and make sure the oiling holes are clear.
209 Yota rockers
09-30-2019, 04:23 AM
#5
Registered User
I personally would not have any problems in reinstalling the OSK Tensioner after only 80K miles; everything looks pretty good to me on it & I know it's a quality piece. I also know from experience that Japanese made Timing Sets tend to last well beyond the "standard" 100K miles replacement window, with 150K being more common.I say go with what you have because that tensioner is much higher in quality than the ITM tensioner & it's still in great shape & functional. The final decision is yours of course.
Thanks for posting the pictures, they give us another clue as to what happened. Just in looking at the casting quality of the cam & rocker, you can tell these parts are of lower quality. Note the (rather large & uneven) pits & bumps on the unfinished parts of the cam & rocker, & the pitted look of the wear area of the cam lobe. This comes from the maker using a cheaper, lower grade of casting sand (larger granules) rather than a more expensive, higher grade of casting sand (much smaller granules). The larger grain casting sand allows those large pits & "pock-marks" to form during casting. Any maker that cares about the quality of a finished cast metal product would not do this, especially for a part that is stressed in any major physical way like a camshaft & rockers would be. The pitting makes for a more uneven surface, so any mechanical stress put on it would not be evenly spread out across the surface, causing high stress points & possibly leading to complete breakage & failure. I see & know that the Tensioner also shows a rough casting in the picture, but the physics of what it has to handle are much different. It doesn't have to contend with the same kind of mechanical stresses the cam & rockers do, only contain hydraulic pressure in it's bore, so the rough casting on this part is no problem.
You may already know all of this. Sorry for the explanation but I have studied this in depth before, the material science & physics behind it, because I wanted to know what the difference was in quality & why. I also think it's important for anyone else reading this to understand the differences in parts quality, if they didn't know.
I have 2 thoughts on the head & head gasket. First thought is do your stuff, leave the head in place & just put it all back together. I am sure you selected a quality head gasket when you did the rebuild so the gasket is probably fine, especially after 70K miles with good compression & no other problems.
My second thought is: well, maybe NOT leave it alone. Considering the problems with the low quality cam & rockers used, what do we know about the valves & seats? Are the valves & seats an OEM quality? I guess if they are still working well after 80K miles they are probably OK. It's just that when I have run into a substandard part before as a part of a sub-assembly (which a head is), I've learned it doesn't pay to assume anything else about it. I go ahead & do the extra work of double checking everything for quality of parts, tolerances, condition, wear patterns, etc. Maybe I am OCD about it but like you I hate pulling things apart twice & fixing things twice. Again, your choice to do not not do. if it's no biggie for you to pull the head, I'd say go ahead & do it so you can be sure.
I'd also get a new set of head bolts for it in either case. Toyota has always considered the 20R/22R head bolts to be "stretch to torque" & a one time use only item. Again you may already know this but just putting it out there for someone who may not know.
Thanks for posting the pictures, they give us another clue as to what happened. Just in looking at the casting quality of the cam & rocker, you can tell these parts are of lower quality. Note the (rather large & uneven) pits & bumps on the unfinished parts of the cam & rocker, & the pitted look of the wear area of the cam lobe. This comes from the maker using a cheaper, lower grade of casting sand (larger granules) rather than a more expensive, higher grade of casting sand (much smaller granules). The larger grain casting sand allows those large pits & "pock-marks" to form during casting. Any maker that cares about the quality of a finished cast metal product would not do this, especially for a part that is stressed in any major physical way like a camshaft & rockers would be. The pitting makes for a more uneven surface, so any mechanical stress put on it would not be evenly spread out across the surface, causing high stress points & possibly leading to complete breakage & failure. I see & know that the Tensioner also shows a rough casting in the picture, but the physics of what it has to handle are much different. It doesn't have to contend with the same kind of mechanical stresses the cam & rockers do, only contain hydraulic pressure in it's bore, so the rough casting on this part is no problem.
You may already know all of this. Sorry for the explanation but I have studied this in depth before, the material science & physics behind it, because I wanted to know what the difference was in quality & why. I also think it's important for anyone else reading this to understand the differences in parts quality, if they didn't know.
I have 2 thoughts on the head & head gasket. First thought is do your stuff, leave the head in place & just put it all back together. I am sure you selected a quality head gasket when you did the rebuild so the gasket is probably fine, especially after 70K miles with good compression & no other problems.
My second thought is: well, maybe NOT leave it alone. Considering the problems with the low quality cam & rockers used, what do we know about the valves & seats? Are the valves & seats an OEM quality? I guess if they are still working well after 80K miles they are probably OK. It's just that when I have run into a substandard part before as a part of a sub-assembly (which a head is), I've learned it doesn't pay to assume anything else about it. I go ahead & do the extra work of double checking everything for quality of parts, tolerances, condition, wear patterns, etc. Maybe I am OCD about it but like you I hate pulling things apart twice & fixing things twice. Again, your choice to do not not do. if it's no biggie for you to pull the head, I'd say go ahead & do it so you can be sure.
I'd also get a new set of head bolts for it in either case. Toyota has always considered the 20R/22R head bolts to be "stretch to torque" & a one time use only item. Again you may already know this but just putting it out there for someone who may not know.
The following users liked this post:
FrankTorres (10-09-2019)
09-30-2019, 05:47 AM
#6
About the head gasket. The Mahle new style flange, and the Beck/Arnley are both cheaper than the ITM head gasket. Beck/Arnley use to be made in Japan head gaskets, and it looks just like a Toyota head gasket that is made in Japan/Thailand. Couple years ago I compared the Toyota and Beck/Arnley head gaskets side by side, and they looked like the same part.
Personally, I would spend the little bit extra on at least a Cloyes tensioner. Been running a Cloyes timing kit on my 22RE for about 25,000 miles, and it's been doing great. A friend of mine has 105,000 miles on a Cloyes timing kit, and his is still doing good too. My Cloyes tensioner was marked made in Taiwan.
I hope my cam does not look like yours after 80,000 miles. I bought an Enginetech ccmplete cylinder head from RockAuto about 26 months ago. Cam is still nice and shiny. Just recently adjusted the valves, so I got a good look at the cam. Was not going to adjust the valves, but the valve cover gasket was seeping from the front for the second time in two years. Finally, after using a Beck/Arnley and Fel-pro valve cover gasket that both leaked, a Mahle that fit perfectly fixed the seeping problem. The Mahle half moons just fit better.
Personally, I would spend the little bit extra on at least a Cloyes tensioner. Been running a Cloyes timing kit on my 22RE for about 25,000 miles, and it's been doing great. A friend of mine has 105,000 miles on a Cloyes timing kit, and his is still doing good too. My Cloyes tensioner was marked made in Taiwan.
I hope my cam does not look like yours after 80,000 miles. I bought an Enginetech ccmplete cylinder head from RockAuto about 26 months ago. Cam is still nice and shiny. Just recently adjusted the valves, so I got a good look at the cam. Was not going to adjust the valves, but the valve cover gasket was seeping from the front for the second time in two years. Finally, after using a Beck/Arnley and Fel-pro valve cover gasket that both leaked, a Mahle that fit perfectly fixed the seeping problem. The Mahle half moons just fit better.
Last edited by snippits; 09-30-2019 at 06:06 AM.
10-01-2019, 05:50 PM
#7
I personally would not have any problems in reinstalling the OSK Tensioner after only 80K miles; everything looks pretty good to me on it & I know it's a quality piece. I also know from experience that Japanese made Timing Sets tend to last well beyond the "standard" 100K miles replacement window, with 150K being more common.I say go with what you have because that tensioner is much higher in quality than the ITM tensioner & it's still in great shape & functional. The final decision is yours of course.
Thanks for posting the pictures, they give us another clue as to what happened. Just in looking at the casting quality of the cam & rocker, you can tell these parts are of lower quality. Note the (rather large & uneven) pits & bumps on the unfinished parts of the cam & rocker, & the pitted look of the wear area of the cam lobe. This comes from the maker using a cheaper, lower grade of casting sand (larger granules) rather than a more expensive, higher grade of casting sand (much smaller granules). The larger grain casting sand allows those large pits & "pock-marks" to form during casting. Any maker that cares about the quality of a finished cast metal product would not do this, especially for a part that is stressed in any major physical way like a camshaft & rockers would be. The pitting makes for a more uneven surface, so any mechanical stress put on it would not be evenly spread out across the surface, causing high stress points & possibly leading to complete breakage & failure. I see & know that the Tensioner also shows a rough casting in the picture, but the physics of what it has to handle are much different. It doesn't have to contend with the same kind of mechanical stresses the cam & rockers do, only contain hydraulic pressure in it's bore, so the rough casting on this part is no problem.
You may already know all of this. Sorry for the explanation but I have studied this in depth before, the material science & physics behind it, because I wanted to know what the difference was in quality & why. I also think it's important for anyone else reading this to understand the differences in parts quality, if they didn't know.
I have 2 thoughts on the head & head gasket. First thought is do your stuff, leave the head in place & just put it all back together. I am sure you selected a quality head gasket when you did the rebuild so the gasket is probably fine, especially after 70K miles with good compression & no other problems.
My second thought is: well, maybe NOT leave it alone. Considering the problems with the low quality cam & rockers used, what do we know about the valves & seats? Are the valves & seats an OEM quality? I guess if they are still working well after 80K miles they are probably OK. It's just that when I have run into a substandard part before as a part of a sub-assembly (which a head is), I've learned it doesn't pay to assume anything else about it. I go ahead & do the extra work of double checking everything for quality of parts, tolerances, condition, wear patterns, etc. Maybe I am OCD about it but like you I hate pulling things apart twice & fixing things twice. Again, your choice to do not not do. if it's no biggie for you to pull the head, I'd say go ahead & do it so you can be sure.
I'd also get a new set of head bolts for it in either case. Toyota has always considered the 20R/22R head bolts to be "stretch to torque" & a one time use only item. Again you may already know this but just putting it out there for someone who may not know.
Thanks for posting the pictures, they give us another clue as to what happened. Just in looking at the casting quality of the cam & rocker, you can tell these parts are of lower quality. Note the (rather large & uneven) pits & bumps on the unfinished parts of the cam & rocker, & the pitted look of the wear area of the cam lobe. This comes from the maker using a cheaper, lower grade of casting sand (larger granules) rather than a more expensive, higher grade of casting sand (much smaller granules). The larger grain casting sand allows those large pits & "pock-marks" to form during casting. Any maker that cares about the quality of a finished cast metal product would not do this, especially for a part that is stressed in any major physical way like a camshaft & rockers would be. The pitting makes for a more uneven surface, so any mechanical stress put on it would not be evenly spread out across the surface, causing high stress points & possibly leading to complete breakage & failure. I see & know that the Tensioner also shows a rough casting in the picture, but the physics of what it has to handle are much different. It doesn't have to contend with the same kind of mechanical stresses the cam & rockers do, only contain hydraulic pressure in it's bore, so the rough casting on this part is no problem.
You may already know all of this. Sorry for the explanation but I have studied this in depth before, the material science & physics behind it, because I wanted to know what the difference was in quality & why. I also think it's important for anyone else reading this to understand the differences in parts quality, if they didn't know.
I have 2 thoughts on the head & head gasket. First thought is do your stuff, leave the head in place & just put it all back together. I am sure you selected a quality head gasket when you did the rebuild so the gasket is probably fine, especially after 70K miles with good compression & no other problems.
My second thought is: well, maybe NOT leave it alone. Considering the problems with the low quality cam & rockers used, what do we know about the valves & seats? Are the valves & seats an OEM quality? I guess if they are still working well after 80K miles they are probably OK. It's just that when I have run into a substandard part before as a part of a sub-assembly (which a head is), I've learned it doesn't pay to assume anything else about it. I go ahead & do the extra work of double checking everything for quality of parts, tolerances, condition, wear patterns, etc. Maybe I am OCD about it but like you I hate pulling things apart twice & fixing things twice. Again, your choice to do not not do. if it's no biggie for you to pull the head, I'd say go ahead & do it so you can be sure.
I'd also get a new set of head bolts for it in either case. Toyota has always considered the 20R/22R head bolts to be "stretch to torque" & a one time use only item. Again you may already know this but just putting it out there for someone who may not know.
Last edited by the171; 10-01-2019 at 05:52 PM.
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10-01-2019, 05:55 PM
#8
About the head gasket. The Mahle new style flange, and the Beck/Arnley are both cheaper than the ITM head gasket. Beck/Arnley use to be made in Japan head gaskets, and it looks just like a Toyota head gasket that is made in Japan/Thailand. Couple years ago I compared the Toyota and Beck/Arnley head gaskets side by side, and they looked like the same part.
Personally, I would spend the little bit extra on at least a Cloyes tensioner. Been running a Cloyes timing kit on my 22RE for about 25,000 miles, and it's been doing great. A friend of mine has 105,000 miles on a Cloyes timing kit, and his is still doing good too. My Cloyes tensioner was marked made in Taiwan.
I hope my cam does not look like yours after 80,000 miles. I bought an Enginetech ccmplete cylinder head from RockAuto about 26 months ago. Cam is still nice and shiny. Just recently adjusted the valves, so I got a good look at the cam. Was not going to adjust the valves, but the valve cover gasket was seeping from the front for the second time in two years. Finally, after using a Beck/Arnley and Fel-pro valve cover gasket that both leaked, a Mahle that fit perfectly fixed the seeping problem. The Mahle half moons just fit better.
Personally, I would spend the little bit extra on at least a Cloyes tensioner. Been running a Cloyes timing kit on my 22RE for about 25,000 miles, and it's been doing great. A friend of mine has 105,000 miles on a Cloyes timing kit, and his is still doing good too. My Cloyes tensioner was marked made in Taiwan.
I hope my cam does not look like yours after 80,000 miles. I bought an Enginetech ccmplete cylinder head from RockAuto about 26 months ago. Cam is still nice and shiny. Just recently adjusted the valves, so I got a good look at the cam. Was not going to adjust the valves, but the valve cover gasket was seeping from the front for the second time in two years. Finally, after using a Beck/Arnley and Fel-pro valve cover gasket that both leaked, a Mahle that fit perfectly fixed the seeping problem. The Mahle half moons just fit better.
Last edited by the171; 10-01-2019 at 06:53 PM.
10-06-2019, 05:28 AM
#9
To follow up. I did install the itm cam rockers and timing gaskets. $260 all in including fast shipping to Canada. From rock auto. I reused my Toyota brand head gasket, and osk timing kit.
currentky running smooth as butter. Valve lash set tight. I’d like a Toyota head and cam but for the money, can’t complain.
This was my first time pulling the timing cover without lifting the head. To reinstall I did have to drop the oil pan a bit so the timing cover would slide under the front of the head gasket. This was successful, no leaks and 130psi on all cylinders.
Last edited by the171; 10-06-2019 at 06:06 AM.
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puertofrito (10-24-2019)
03-15-2020, 01:59 AM
#10
Since then I’ve installed an itm head gasket and other gaskets from itm. The itm head gasket looks identical to the oem Toyota gasket I removed. Everything is running strong no issues.
03-15-2020, 03:06 AM
#11
I’m also now running a cloyes timing kit. With a high miles osk chain and gears.
i also recently installed a wve or airtex igniter and coil. Cheap price from rock auto.
Stuff is all working good good she’s running like a new truck.
i also recently installed a wve or airtex igniter and coil. Cheap price from rock auto.
Stuff is all working good good she’s running like a new truck.
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