i need your opinions!!!!! 88 runner lift
09-10-2007, 04:09 PM
#21
Registered User
You'll find some people on this forum who like body lifts, you'll find some people who are indifferent, and you'll find some 100% anti-body-lift people. I happen to be the latter, I think they look absolutely tacky and hate seeing a perfectly good Toyota get a body lift installed. 
A bl provides so many advantages, for those who actually wheel their vehicles on tougher terrain, and can understand and take advantage of it.
Fred
09-10-2007, 04:38 PM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-10-2007, 05:10 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahhh, then you're one of those who add mods to the vehicle strictly for looks, performance (or lack of performance) from the mod be damned.
A bl provides so many advantages, for those who actually wheel their vehicles on tougher terrain, and can understand and take advantage of it.
Fred
A bl provides so many advantages, for those who actually wheel their vehicles on tougher terrain, and can understand and take advantage of it.
Fred
09-10-2007, 05:32 PM
#24
Registered User
Don't do the coil springs it will work,BUT I did it to my 4runner and it makes the ride very bouncy and it sucks driving on the highway and any bumpy road first bump is not too bad but if you have a bunch of bumps the truck will start to bounce all over the place.
looking back I wish I had not been so cheap and had got either new leafs or a add a leaf instead or had done the Chevy leaf swap.
looking back I wish I had not been so cheap and had got either new leafs or a add a leaf instead or had done the Chevy leaf swap.
The real thing I have appreciated about this mod is the way it works. It has returned lift in the rear end (slightly higher than stock height...1/2"), returned stability in turns (I can't speak for high speed because I don't drive fast anyway), improved handling on rough roads, and greatly increased the load capacity.(All this, of course, over the prior saggy situation. New leafs altogether may be a lot smoother, but that's wicked expensive) I hauled 1600lbs in the cargo bay two weeks ago. The coils shared the load with the leafs decreasing the amount either component had to work. To illustrate, the leafs were almost flat under all the weight, but not quite on the overloads whereas normally they would have been....even approaching negative arch. ROUGH riding there! I know, however, when I hit bumps the overloads were impacted, but I still had plenty of functional suspension because of the coils....which were no were near maxed. All I used were rear coils off of a Jeep TJ that Zuk sold to me.
I have a friend who's worked on vehicles most of his life. He has a Toyota extra cab and the rear leafs were spent. He put shackles on to lift it back up to stock height, but did NOTHING for the ride quality or his load capacity. It was very cheap....cheaper than even what I did, but he complains of what? Bouncing all over the road. Why? Because he's still riding on the overloads. So, I tease him...."When are you going to put those coils on?" He helped me install mine and really, really liked the results. But, he's too busy to get around to it himself. So, blocks and shackles and the like restore the height, but the ride stills sucks shat.
Anyway, one does whatever they wish and/or within their capacity, but I'd recommend the coil mod in this kind of situation.
I might add, if one is to do this mod be selective about the coils you use. Consider what there coming off of, if you buy them used like I did. Plus, it's not a "more flex" mod, so may not be the best for crawling.
Oh, and I have no need for bumpstops anymore...
09-10-2007, 05:42 PM
#25
Registered User
I got the pro-comp add-a-leaf, cost was around $30 for both springs.
I got about 2" of lift out of it.. My rear springs were dead, sitting on overload.
Adding a lift should increase the spring rate and impact how harsh the ride is, but the end result of my add-a-leaf is more articulation before I hit that overload leaf (very solid) - truck actually rides softer.
None of the suggestions listed here will give you more capability than a taller tire.. For a functional lift, you need articulation and flex. IE - longer springs and in most cases, removal of the IFS.
I got about 2" of lift out of it.. My rear springs were dead, sitting on overload.
Adding a lift should increase the spring rate and impact how harsh the ride is, but the end result of my add-a-leaf is more articulation before I hit that overload leaf (very solid) - truck actually rides softer.
None of the suggestions listed here will give you more capability than a taller tire.. For a functional lift, you need articulation and flex. IE - longer springs and in most cases, removal of the IFS.
09-10-2007, 06:54 PM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I think the benefits out weigh the disadvantages of a body lift. Although I do not run a body lift, I wish I would have gone with 1" smaller springs and a 1" body lift.
09-10-2007, 07:46 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The disadvantages are as follows:
1. Doesn't increase ground clearance (other than the little bit from the taller tire).
2. Almost every body lift kit I have ever seen and/or worked with has had HUGE pucks that don't allow the original body mounts as much flexing and movement. This translates to a harsh ride. I had a body lift on my truck for a little over a year. When I removed it I noticed I could jounce the truck again.
3. Leverage on the stock mounts can wear them out quickly.
4. Longer bolts can flex/break/wear out your body mounts prematurely as the frame and suspension move, flex, and vibrate offroad.
5. Body lift pucks can punch through the body because of the extra leverage and harshness from the added length.
6. Does raise the center of gravity more than people often think.
7. Just plain looks silly with the frame hanging out below the body.
With the time people spend installing a body lift, they could get themselves a hammer and "modify" the inner fender well to run the 33" tires. Heck, there's a guy on Pirate running 38"s without a lift!
With the money people spend on a body lift, they could get themselves some steel and make sliders and skid plates.
09-12-2007, 07:18 PM
#28
Registered User
The benefits of a body lift are that you can run a larger tire and the center of gravity isn't moved as far up as if you had lifted the entire suspension.
The disadvantages are as follows:
1. Doesn't increase ground clearance (other than the little bit from the taller tire).
2. Almost every body lift kit I have ever seen and/or worked with has had HUGE pucks that don't allow the original body mounts as much flexing and movement. This translates to a harsh ride. I had a body lift on my truck for a little over a year. When I removed it I noticed I could jounce the truck again.
3. Leverage on the stock mounts can wear them out quickly.
4. Longer bolts can flex/break/wear out your body mounts prematurely as the frame and suspension move, flex, and vibrate offroad.
5. Body lift pucks can punch through the body because of the extra leverage and harshness from the added length.
6. Does raise the center of gravity more than people often think.
7. Just plain looks silly with the frame hanging out below the body.
With the time people spend installing a body lift, they could get themselves a hammer and "modify" the inner fender well to run the 33" tires. Heck, there's a guy on Pirate running 38"s without a lift!
With the money people spend on a body lift, they could get themselves some steel and make sliders and skid plates.
The disadvantages are as follows:
1. Doesn't increase ground clearance (other than the little bit from the taller tire).
2. Almost every body lift kit I have ever seen and/or worked with has had HUGE pucks that don't allow the original body mounts as much flexing and movement. This translates to a harsh ride. I had a body lift on my truck for a little over a year. When I removed it I noticed I could jounce the truck again.
3. Leverage on the stock mounts can wear them out quickly.
4. Longer bolts can flex/break/wear out your body mounts prematurely as the frame and suspension move, flex, and vibrate offroad.
5. Body lift pucks can punch through the body because of the extra leverage and harshness from the added length.
6. Does raise the center of gravity more than people often think.
7. Just plain looks silly with the frame hanging out below the body.
With the time people spend installing a body lift, they could get themselves a hammer and "modify" the inner fender well to run the 33" tires. Heck, there's a guy on Pirate running 38"s without a lift!
With the money people spend on a body lift, they could get themselves some steel and make sliders and skid plates.
Ah ha, now I understand.
It's really obvious now that you simply don't play in the big stuff....
1. TIRES provide the lift, suspension lift and bl provide the clearance and additional flex to run the bigger tires. I don't care how much suspension lift (or bl) one adds, you won't raise the lowest part of your vehicle one itty bitty bit from it. And if you don't believe that those two lowest parts can and do hang up, then, as I've mentioned, you simply aren't wheeling in the bigger stuff.
2. Non-issue. No problem at all for any sensible sized bl (1" ~ 2"). If your vehicle had a ride quality problem with a bl installed, it had other issues.
3. Complete non-issue. Strictly hearsay with a sensible sized bl. I've seen a zillion parts break and wear out from the stresses caused by suspension lifts and have never seen anything wear or break from a bl, and I've been around bl lifted vehicles, run on some of the biggest, toughest trails here in the SW.
4. As with 3. (above), a complete non-issue. All comments in 3 (above) apply here.
5. As with 3. and 4., and complete non-issue. Above comments apply here, with the reiteration of the number of items that I've seen worn, twisted, ripped and broke from suspension lifts and the extra stresses that the cause, especially those lifts that aren't designed well (read, most of those mentioned on this forum).
6. But not as much as you seem to think. There is a HUGE difference that COG makes. On my last vehicle I was running 35's with a 5" suspension lift and a 2" bl and wasn't happy with the performance offroad, on steep climbs and really off camber areas in particular. I dropped the suspension lift down to 4" and the bl down to 1 1/4" and the difference was simply astounding.
7. Don't care how it looks to some. I (and a lot of others) don't care how it looks (nor do we think it looks silly). We care about function. What looks silly to me are bracket lifts and dropped front diffs.
Yes a hammer and such is very useful.
On my last vehicle I was able to tuck the tranny/xfer case up (by clearancing the tunnel some with an air hammer) such that the skid has completely flat and flush with the bottom of the frame rails, and that with a 1 1/4" bl.
The performance gain from that is something that simply has to be experienced to believe.
A lot of those that play in the big stuff already know all this. Those that aren't setup for it and try it, find the facts to be painfully obvious.
On a trip out to JV and really good friend of my was telling me about, how at the end of the first day, that night over dinner, the "boys" that were running a particular brand (Rubicon Express) of what are called "long arm" lifts on their Jeeps (TJ's) were trying to figure out what to do with the jam nut on the low heim. They were getting hung up on just that little thing to deweight the suspension to the point that they were requiring a strap for a little pop.
Fred
09-13-2007, 11:30 AM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah ha, now I understand.
It's really obvious now that you simply don't play in the big stuff....
1. TIRES provide the lift, suspension lift and bl provide the clearance and additional flex to run the bigger tires. I don't care how much suspension lift (or bl) one adds, you won't raise the lowest part of your vehicle one itty bitty bit from it. And if you don't believe that those two lowest parts can and do hang up, then, as I've mentioned, you simply aren't wheeling in the bigger stuff.
2. Non-issue. No problem at all for any sensible sized bl (1" ~ 2"). If your vehicle had a ride quality problem with a bl installed, it had other issues.
3. Complete non-issue. Strictly hearsay with a sensible sized bl. I've seen a zillion parts break and wear out from the stresses caused by suspension lifts and have never seen anything wear or break from a bl, and I've been around bl lifted vehicles, run on some of the biggest, toughest trails here in the SW.
4. As with 3. (above), a complete non-issue. All comments in 3 (above) apply here.
5. As with 3. and 4., and complete non-issue. Above comments apply here, with the reiteration of the number of items that I've seen worn, twisted, ripped and broke from suspension lifts and the extra stresses that the cause, especially those lifts that aren't designed well (read, most of those mentioned on this forum).
6. But not as much as you seem to think. There is a HUGE difference that COG makes. On my last vehicle I was running 35's with a 5" suspension lift and a 2" bl and wasn't happy with the performance offroad, on steep climbs and really off camber areas in particular. I dropped the suspension lift down to 4" and the bl down to 1 1/4" and the difference was simply astounding.
7. Don't care how it looks to some. I (and a lot of others) don't care how it looks (nor do we think it looks silly). We care about function. What looks silly to me are bracket lifts and dropped front diffs.
Yes a hammer and such is very useful.
On my last vehicle I was able to tuck the tranny/xfer case up (by clearancing the tunnel some with an air hammer) such that the skid has completely flat and flush with the bottom of the frame rails, and that with a 1 1/4" bl.
The performance gain from that is something that simply has to be experienced to believe.
A lot of those that play in the big stuff already know all this. Those that aren't setup for it and try it, find the facts to be painfully obvious.
On a trip out to JV and really good friend of my was telling me about, how at the end of the first day, that night over dinner, the "boys" that were running a particular brand (Rubicon Express) of what are called "long arm" lifts on their Jeeps (TJ's) were trying to figure out what to do with the jam nut on the low heim. They were getting hung up on just that little thing to deweight the suspension to the point that they were requiring a strap for a little pop.
Fred
It's really obvious now that you simply don't play in the big stuff....
1. TIRES provide the lift, suspension lift and bl provide the clearance and additional flex to run the bigger tires. I don't care how much suspension lift (or bl) one adds, you won't raise the lowest part of your vehicle one itty bitty bit from it. And if you don't believe that those two lowest parts can and do hang up, then, as I've mentioned, you simply aren't wheeling in the bigger stuff.
2. Non-issue. No problem at all for any sensible sized bl (1" ~ 2"). If your vehicle had a ride quality problem with a bl installed, it had other issues.
3. Complete non-issue. Strictly hearsay with a sensible sized bl. I've seen a zillion parts break and wear out from the stresses caused by suspension lifts and have never seen anything wear or break from a bl, and I've been around bl lifted vehicles, run on some of the biggest, toughest trails here in the SW.
4. As with 3. (above), a complete non-issue. All comments in 3 (above) apply here.
5. As with 3. and 4., and complete non-issue. Above comments apply here, with the reiteration of the number of items that I've seen worn, twisted, ripped and broke from suspension lifts and the extra stresses that the cause, especially those lifts that aren't designed well (read, most of those mentioned on this forum).
6. But not as much as you seem to think. There is a HUGE difference that COG makes. On my last vehicle I was running 35's with a 5" suspension lift and a 2" bl and wasn't happy with the performance offroad, on steep climbs and really off camber areas in particular. I dropped the suspension lift down to 4" and the bl down to 1 1/4" and the difference was simply astounding.
7. Don't care how it looks to some. I (and a lot of others) don't care how it looks (nor do we think it looks silly). We care about function. What looks silly to me are bracket lifts and dropped front diffs.
Yes a hammer and such is very useful.
On my last vehicle I was able to tuck the tranny/xfer case up (by clearancing the tunnel some with an air hammer) such that the skid has completely flat and flush with the bottom of the frame rails, and that with a 1 1/4" bl.
The performance gain from that is something that simply has to be experienced to believe.
A lot of those that play in the big stuff already know all this. Those that aren't setup for it and try it, find the facts to be painfully obvious.
On a trip out to JV and really good friend of my was telling me about, how at the end of the first day, that night over dinner, the "boys" that were running a particular brand (Rubicon Express) of what are called "long arm" lifts on their Jeeps (TJ's) were trying to figure out what to do with the jam nut on the low heim. They were getting hung up on just that little thing to deweight the suspension to the point that they were requiring a strap for a little pop.
Fred
09-13-2007, 12:08 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-13-2007, 12:42 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah ha, now I understand.
It's really obvious now that you simply don't play in the big stuff....
1. TIRES provide the lift, suspension lift and bl provide the clearance and additional flex to run the bigger tires. I don't care how much suspension lift (or bl) one adds, you won't raise the lowest part of your vehicle one itty bitty bit from it. And if you don't believe that those two lowest parts can and do hang up, then, as I've mentioned, you simply aren't wheeling in the bigger stuff.
2. Non-issue. No problem at all for any sensible sized bl (1" ~ 2"). If your vehicle had a ride quality problem with a bl installed, it had other issues.
3. Complete non-issue. Strictly hearsay with a sensible sized bl. I've seen a zillion parts break and wear out from the stresses caused by suspension lifts and have never seen anything wear or break from a bl, and I've been around bl lifted vehicles, run on some of the biggest, toughest trails here in the SW.
4. As with 3. (above), a complete non-issue. All comments in 3 (above) apply here.
5. As with 3. and 4., and complete non-issue. Above comments apply here, with the reiteration of the number of items that I've seen worn, twisted, ripped and broke from suspension lifts and the extra stresses that the cause, especially those lifts that aren't designed well (read, most of those mentioned on this forum).
6. But not as much as you seem to think. There is a HUGE difference that COG makes. On my last vehicle I was running 35's with a 5" suspension lift and a 2" bl and wasn't happy with the performance offroad, on steep climbs and really off camber areas in particular. I dropped the suspension lift down to 4" and the bl down to 1 1/4" and the difference was simply astounding.
7. Don't care how it looks to some. I (and a lot of others) don't care how it looks (nor do we think it looks silly). We care about function. What looks silly to me are bracket lifts and dropped front diffs.
Yes a hammer and such is very useful.
On my last vehicle I was able to tuck the tranny/xfer case up (by clearancing the tunnel some with an air hammer) such that the skid has completely flat and flush with the bottom of the frame rails, and that with a 1 1/4" bl.
The performance gain from that is something that simply has to be experienced to believe.
A lot of those that play in the big stuff already know all this. Those that aren't setup for it and try it, find the facts to be painfully obvious.
On a trip out to JV and really good friend of my was telling me about, how at the end of the first day, that night over dinner, the "boys" that were running a particular brand (Rubicon Express) of what are called "long arm" lifts on their Jeeps (TJ's) were trying to figure out what to do with the jam nut on the low heim. They were getting hung up on just that little thing to deweight the suspension to the point that they were requiring a strap for a little pop.
Fred
It's really obvious now that you simply don't play in the big stuff....
1. TIRES provide the lift, suspension lift and bl provide the clearance and additional flex to run the bigger tires. I don't care how much suspension lift (or bl) one adds, you won't raise the lowest part of your vehicle one itty bitty bit from it. And if you don't believe that those two lowest parts can and do hang up, then, as I've mentioned, you simply aren't wheeling in the bigger stuff.
2. Non-issue. No problem at all for any sensible sized bl (1" ~ 2"). If your vehicle had a ride quality problem with a bl installed, it had other issues.
3. Complete non-issue. Strictly hearsay with a sensible sized bl. I've seen a zillion parts break and wear out from the stresses caused by suspension lifts and have never seen anything wear or break from a bl, and I've been around bl lifted vehicles, run on some of the biggest, toughest trails here in the SW.
4. As with 3. (above), a complete non-issue. All comments in 3 (above) apply here.
5. As with 3. and 4., and complete non-issue. Above comments apply here, with the reiteration of the number of items that I've seen worn, twisted, ripped and broke from suspension lifts and the extra stresses that the cause, especially those lifts that aren't designed well (read, most of those mentioned on this forum).
6. But not as much as you seem to think. There is a HUGE difference that COG makes. On my last vehicle I was running 35's with a 5" suspension lift and a 2" bl and wasn't happy with the performance offroad, on steep climbs and really off camber areas in particular. I dropped the suspension lift down to 4" and the bl down to 1 1/4" and the difference was simply astounding.
7. Don't care how it looks to some. I (and a lot of others) don't care how it looks (nor do we think it looks silly). We care about function. What looks silly to me are bracket lifts and dropped front diffs.
Yes a hammer and such is very useful.
On my last vehicle I was able to tuck the tranny/xfer case up (by clearancing the tunnel some with an air hammer) such that the skid has completely flat and flush with the bottom of the frame rails, and that with a 1 1/4" bl.
The performance gain from that is something that simply has to be experienced to believe.
A lot of those that play in the big stuff already know all this. Those that aren't setup for it and try it, find the facts to be painfully obvious.
On a trip out to JV and really good friend of my was telling me about, how at the end of the first day, that night over dinner, the "boys" that were running a particular brand (Rubicon Express) of what are called "long arm" lifts on their Jeeps (TJ's) were trying to figure out what to do with the jam nut on the low heim. They were getting hung up on just that little thing to deweight the suspension to the point that they were requiring a strap for a little pop.
Fred
1. Did you read what I posted? That's almost exactly what I said. "[Body lifts don't] increase ground clearance (other than the little bit from the taller tire).
2. Most people install 3" body lifts. Mine was 3". No, it was not another problem. Again, did you read what I posted? The puck was so wide that the ring where the stock mount fits into was not allowed to flex. Perhaps I should explain it better, since I'm guessing your reading comprehension is a tad below average. Say you have a 3" diameter hole. Put a 2 3/4" diameter puck that is thin (like a stock body mount) in there and you can completely flip it inside the hole. Now, make the puck extremely thick, but still 2 3/4" in diameter. Now you can't move it so much, thus a harsher ride. This is a legitimate issue for 2" and probably 1" body lifts, however, the harshness would go down as the body lift size goes down.
3. Ever driven in the rust belt? Ever seen a vehicle break a body mount bolt and have the body completely warp to one side because of a body lift mount that fell out because of a broken bolt? I don't live in the rust belt, but I have seen it all too common on older vehicles and newer ones that have come from the rust belt.
4. Stock body mounts rot after quite a few years. Not so bad that they have to be replaced, but enough to see cracking and damage on them. The extra leverage that the longer bolt is putting on the body mount can tear them further and lead to a need for replacement.
5. Actually this is an issue. Previously I worked on many many vehicles in a vo-tech shop. There were several vehicles that came in with body lifts that had punched through the body and were now hanging crooked. I also looked for a 4x4 for about a year before I actually bought one and the amount of body lifted rigs with a dented, or completely punched through mount was absolutely astounding!
6. Did you read my post? I didn't overstate anything. I simply said "raises COG more than some people think." It WILL raise the center of gravity. Period.
7. This is a matter of opinion. We could go round and round on this for days. The bottom line is that a body lift is just as "functional" as cutting the fenders, or adding a suspension lift, except they have their own set of disadvantages that come with them. BLs just plain look tacky.
I have actually seen a lot of flat-belly rigs. A lot of people are body lifting them to get them this way. A lot of people are also cutting out the center of the floor and re-welding them with a taller hump to keep the stock body height and gain the advantage of a flat-belly. If you're really as mechanically inclined as you make yourself out to be, seeing as how you clearly know about "the big stuff", then a cut and weld feat such as this should be an afternoon job.
Last edited by jcfb; 09-13-2007 at 12:44 PM.
09-13-2007, 02:59 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, but there's a lot of rigs running with solid axles, shaved fenders, body armor... NO BODY LIFT. Body lifts are stupid.
It's really obvious that you don't have the slightest clue!
1. Did you read what I posted? That's almost exactly what I said. "[Body lifts don't] increase ground clearance (other than the little bit from the taller tire).
2. Most people install 3" body lifts. Mine was 3". No, it was not another problem. Again, did you read what I posted? The puck was so wide that the ring where the stock mount fits into was not allowed to flex. Perhaps I should explain it better, since I'm guessing your reading comprehension is a tad below average. Say you have a 3" diameter hole. Put a 2 3/4" diameter puck that is thin (like a stock body mount) in there and you can completely flip it inside the hole. Now, make the puck extremely thick, but still 2 3/4" in diameter. Now you can't move it so much, thus a harsher ride. This is a legitimate issue for 2" and probably 1" body lifts, however, the harshness would go down as the body lift size goes down.
3. Ever driven in the rust belt? Ever seen a vehicle break a body mount bolt and have the body completely warp to one side because of a body lift mount that fell out because of a broken bolt? I don't live in the rust belt, but I have seen it all too common on older vehicles and newer ones that have come from the rust belt.
4. Stock body mounts rot after quite a few years. Not so bad that they have to be replaced, but enough to see cracking and damage on them. The extra leverage that the longer bolt is putting on the body mount can tear them further and lead to a need for replacement.
5. Actually this is an issue. Previously I worked on many many vehicles in a vo-tech shop. There were several vehicles that came in with body lifts that had punched through the body and were now hanging crooked. I also looked for a 4x4 for about a year before I actually bought one and the amount of body lifted rigs with a dented, or completely punched through mount was absolutely astounding!
6. Did you read my post? I didn't overstate anything. I simply said "raises COG more than some people think." It WILL raise the center of gravity. Period.
7. This is a matter of opinion. We could go round and round on this for days. The bottom line is that a body lift is just as "functional" as cutting the fenders, or adding a suspension lift, except they have their own set of disadvantages that come with them. BLs just plain look tacky.
I have actually seen a lot of flat-belly rigs. A lot of people are body lifting them to get them this way. A lot of people are also cutting out the center of the floor and re-welding them with a taller hump to keep the stock body height and gain the advantage of a flat-belly. If you're really as mechanically inclined as you make yourself out to be, seeing as how you clearly know about "the big stuff", then a cut and weld feat such as this should be an afternoon job.
It's really obvious that you don't have the slightest clue!
1. Did you read what I posted? That's almost exactly what I said. "[Body lifts don't] increase ground clearance (other than the little bit from the taller tire).
2. Most people install 3" body lifts. Mine was 3". No, it was not another problem. Again, did you read what I posted? The puck was so wide that the ring where the stock mount fits into was not allowed to flex. Perhaps I should explain it better, since I'm guessing your reading comprehension is a tad below average. Say you have a 3" diameter hole. Put a 2 3/4" diameter puck that is thin (like a stock body mount) in there and you can completely flip it inside the hole. Now, make the puck extremely thick, but still 2 3/4" in diameter. Now you can't move it so much, thus a harsher ride. This is a legitimate issue for 2" and probably 1" body lifts, however, the harshness would go down as the body lift size goes down.
3. Ever driven in the rust belt? Ever seen a vehicle break a body mount bolt and have the body completely warp to one side because of a body lift mount that fell out because of a broken bolt? I don't live in the rust belt, but I have seen it all too common on older vehicles and newer ones that have come from the rust belt.
4. Stock body mounts rot after quite a few years. Not so bad that they have to be replaced, but enough to see cracking and damage on them. The extra leverage that the longer bolt is putting on the body mount can tear them further and lead to a need for replacement.
5. Actually this is an issue. Previously I worked on many many vehicles in a vo-tech shop. There were several vehicles that came in with body lifts that had punched through the body and were now hanging crooked. I also looked for a 4x4 for about a year before I actually bought one and the amount of body lifted rigs with a dented, or completely punched through mount was absolutely astounding!
6. Did you read my post? I didn't overstate anything. I simply said "raises COG more than some people think." It WILL raise the center of gravity. Period.
7. This is a matter of opinion. We could go round and round on this for days. The bottom line is that a body lift is just as "functional" as cutting the fenders, or adding a suspension lift, except they have their own set of disadvantages that come with them. BLs just plain look tacky.
I have actually seen a lot of flat-belly rigs. A lot of people are body lifting them to get them this way. A lot of people are also cutting out the center of the floor and re-welding them with a taller hump to keep the stock body height and gain the advantage of a flat-belly. If you're really as mechanically inclined as you make yourself out to be, seeing as how you clearly know about "the big stuff", then a cut and weld feat such as this should be an afternoon job.
09-13-2007, 03:27 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dude you are running a drop bracket lift... The guys that have the "big rigs" know better then to run those kits. Drop bracket lift kits do not increase travel at all. You are just lifting unnecessary weight to clear a larger tire. You could have a lower cog, and fit larger tires if you ran a body lift instead of a drop bracket kit.
Last edited by jcfb; 09-13-2007 at 03:32 PM.
09-13-2007, 03:46 PM
#34
I have a 3" body lift, 2" suspension lift.
Why I like it:
1.Clears my 35's.
2.I get into some SERIOUSLY deep mud on ocassion. Usually getting stuck, up to and including the frame rails. Needing to exit the vehicle to attatch a strap, it helps to be able to open a door, before climbing out onto the hood, or jumping into the bed. Doors sit 3" higher with a 3" body lift, possibly avoiding a mud-filled cab. Yes, my windows work fine, and I said "it helps" and "possibly". Nothing about wheeling is certain, that's why it's so entertaining.
3.Raised bumpers are good for me, not so good for the fool that rear-ends me. My rear bumper is raised 3" to match the BL. Better departure angle. The front is raised the same amount, but the improved approach angle is less significant. Adding BL on it's own, or atop suspension lift will ALWAYS help you in these aspects.
4.I can get under my truck and actually sit darn near straight up and not hit my head. Very convenient for all chassis/suspension/drivetrain work.
Why I don't like it:
1.Sucks working on my engine with it not lifted 3" to match the body. For the most part, however, getting at the starter or changing out the oil filter is a BREEZE now.
Meditate on that!
Why I like it:
1.Clears my 35's.
2.I get into some SERIOUSLY deep mud on ocassion. Usually getting stuck, up to and including the frame rails. Needing to exit the vehicle to attatch a strap, it helps to be able to open a door, before climbing out onto the hood, or jumping into the bed. Doors sit 3" higher with a 3" body lift, possibly avoiding a mud-filled cab. Yes, my windows work fine, and I said "it helps" and "possibly". Nothing about wheeling is certain, that's why it's so entertaining.
3.Raised bumpers are good for me, not so good for the fool that rear-ends me. My rear bumper is raised 3" to match the BL. Better departure angle. The front is raised the same amount, but the improved approach angle is less significant. Adding BL on it's own, or atop suspension lift will ALWAYS help you in these aspects.
4.I can get under my truck and actually sit darn near straight up and not hit my head. Very convenient for all chassis/suspension/drivetrain work.
Why I don't like it:
1.Sucks working on my engine with it not lifted 3" to match the body. For the most part, however, getting at the starter or changing out the oil filter is a BREEZE now.
Meditate on that!
Last edited by MudHippy; 09-13-2007 at 05:32 PM.
09-13-2007, 05:06 PM
#35
Registered User
Yup, I read all that you posted.
"Just" be able to "belly up" isn't the only advantage of a body lift.
Mods, I can do about anything and am pretty damn skilled.
Here's a link to my Webshots page:
http://community.webshots.com/user/fredtj
Note the follow albums:
- "Auto tranny swap, albums 1 & 2.
- Shock outboarding, rear
- Currie J-Arms, rear
- Currie front J-Arms, WJ knuckles (this also includes the HPD30 swap and the WJ big brake conversion.
That'll give you some idea of my skills.
Here's a little side shot of my Jeep and will explain the advantages of a "total bellyup" that is the xfer case/tranny pushed up such that the skid is totally flat and even with the bottom of the frame rails.
Go look at almost any other Jeep that you're likely to see (or even Toyota) and look at the difference. This is a HUGE mod, performance gain wise.
And yes, you can hack and cut up the tunnel, or not.
A 1 1/4" bl (in this case) allowed for this mod with the totally flat fabbed skid. Only some minor dimpling of the tunnel, with a hammer (from the underside) in one are was all that was required. Since the Jeeps have a double layed pan, the effect wasn't even visible from the inside.
This is running 35's and I have a 4" suspension lift and a 1 1/4" body lift and that allows for 22" of total vertical tire movement in the front and 19" in the rear. Nice low COG, compared to a lot of others running 35's.
Currie Enterprises, how has been around for many, many, many years, is a big vendor for off road racing products, on road racing, and rock crawling (Jeeps), even ran several in the various major RockCrawling events, make a lot of after market parts for Jeeps (I know, I know, it's not Toyota, but I'm making a point) from suspension parts, to total suspension systems, bumpers, skids, sway bars (adjustable), etc. Almost everything that they make, such as their bumpers, skids, belly up skids, etc., all designed for a 1" (or more) bl.
Wonder why that is ??
Anyway, I've been on this forum for what, mmmmm, ca a year now. Before I got the 4Runner I poked around some of the forums and vendors (though just very briefly) and it "looked" like that there was a lot of after market support and a lot of good knowledge.
I've been wrong with that original assessment.
While there is a lot of after market support, most of it is really in the dark ages still, compared to TJ's at least.
This forum certainly has a handful of people that have a good working knowledge, however for the most part many don't.
It's extremely rare to even see the mention of bumpstops here, for instance, (other than in some of my previous post) and as rare to see then included in some of the vendors lift kits, yet they are a vital part of a suspension lift.
Very few seem to have any idea of even the basics of how their suspensions work.
I post about outboarding the rear shocks and I get the blank looks of deer caught in the headlights, not only have most never heard of it, but they have no idea of the value of that mod. Many are happy to run their rear shocks pointed in towards the center of the vehicle sort of in an inverted 'V' shape, which is about the worse thing that you can do for vehicle stability.
I post about the advantage (which is HUGE) of doing a belly up and again, blink, blink.. mmmmmm... Note everyone, some, as I've mentioned, are knowledgeable, but most aren't.
Anyway, this all assumes that people want to actually want to wheel their vehicle somewhere at least where a Honda Accord couldn't be driven
Anyway, I'm through with this silly discussion.
Some know, some may want to understand and learn, but most don't.
Cheers mate,
Fred
"Just" be able to "belly up" isn't the only advantage of a body lift.
Mods, I can do about anything and am pretty damn skilled.
Here's a link to my Webshots page:
http://community.webshots.com/user/fredtj
Note the follow albums:
- "Auto tranny swap, albums 1 & 2.
- Shock outboarding, rear
- Currie J-Arms, rear
- Currie front J-Arms, WJ knuckles (this also includes the HPD30 swap and the WJ big brake conversion.
That'll give you some idea of my skills.
Here's a little side shot of my Jeep and will explain the advantages of a "total bellyup" that is the xfer case/tranny pushed up such that the skid is totally flat and even with the bottom of the frame rails.
Go look at almost any other Jeep that you're likely to see (or even Toyota) and look at the difference. This is a HUGE mod, performance gain wise.
And yes, you can hack and cut up the tunnel, or not.
A 1 1/4" bl (in this case) allowed for this mod with the totally flat fabbed skid. Only some minor dimpling of the tunnel, with a hammer (from the underside) in one are was all that was required. Since the Jeeps have a double layed pan, the effect wasn't even visible from the inside.
This is running 35's and I have a 4" suspension lift and a 1 1/4" body lift and that allows for 22" of total vertical tire movement in the front and 19" in the rear. Nice low COG, compared to a lot of others running 35's.
Currie Enterprises, how has been around for many, many, many years, is a big vendor for off road racing products, on road racing, and rock crawling (Jeeps), even ran several in the various major RockCrawling events, make a lot of after market parts for Jeeps (I know, I know, it's not Toyota, but I'm making a point) from suspension parts, to total suspension systems, bumpers, skids, sway bars (adjustable), etc. Almost everything that they make, such as their bumpers, skids, belly up skids, etc., all designed for a 1" (or more) bl.
Wonder why that is ??
Anyway, I've been on this forum for what, mmmmm, ca a year now. Before I got the 4Runner I poked around some of the forums and vendors (though just very briefly) and it "looked" like that there was a lot of after market support and a lot of good knowledge.
I've been wrong with that original assessment.
While there is a lot of after market support, most of it is really in the dark ages still, compared to TJ's at least.
This forum certainly has a handful of people that have a good working knowledge, however for the most part many don't.
It's extremely rare to even see the mention of bumpstops here, for instance, (other than in some of my previous post) and as rare to see then included in some of the vendors lift kits, yet they are a vital part of a suspension lift.
Very few seem to have any idea of even the basics of how their suspensions work.
I post about outboarding the rear shocks and I get the blank looks of deer caught in the headlights, not only have most never heard of it, but they have no idea of the value of that mod. Many are happy to run their rear shocks pointed in towards the center of the vehicle sort of in an inverted 'V' shape, which is about the worse thing that you can do for vehicle stability.
I post about the advantage (which is HUGE) of doing a belly up and again, blink, blink.. mmmmmm... Note everyone, some, as I've mentioned, are knowledgeable, but most aren't.
Anyway, this all assumes that people want to actually want to wheel their vehicle somewhere at least where a Honda Accord couldn't be driven
Anyway, I'm through with this silly discussion.
Some know, some may want to understand and learn, but most don't.
Cheers mate,
Fred
09-13-2007, 05:06 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well good for you. These topics always blow up, so I'm sticking to my original statement.
You'll find some people on this forum who like body lifts, you'll find some people who are indifferent, and you'll find some 100% anti-body-lift people. I happen to be the latter, I think they look absolutely tacky and hate seeing a perfectly good Toyota get a body lift installed.
You'll find some people on this forum who like body lifts, you'll find some people who are indifferent, and you'll find some 100% anti-body-lift people. I happen to be the latter, I think they look absolutely tacky and hate seeing a perfectly good Toyota get a body lift installed.
09-13-2007, 06:00 PM
#38
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cape cod
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jesus christ look what the saggy rear end question turned into!!! hahah thanks for the help from the people that actually helped and didn't thrash
09-13-2007, 06:03 PM
#39
Registered User
look at www.downeyoff-road.com their 2" replacement lift springs would be perfect for you. pluss they are not very expensive. i would go with those n ur stock shackles
09-13-2007, 09:15 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Elk Grove(Sacramento), CA
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get the AALs
As far as a general overall lift with 31's, it is not needed, and may even look funny. 31's fill out the wheel wells nicely. If the vehicle is lifted (body lift or suspension), the tires may look too small.
For the saggy rear end, get the add-a-leafs (AALs). The rear leafs on the IFS 1st gens are the same as the pickup, as far as I know. Since a 4Runner is much heavier over the rear axle than a pickup, the springs are actually underated for the 4Runner. The extra spring rate added by the AAL will improve the ride, in addition to raising the rear end 1 1/2 in at the axle. Installing the AALs is easy (not as easy as changing the shackles, but the shackles will not improve your ride the AALs will). Just make sure that you purchase a full length AAL set, not a short set.
I have this setup on my 4Runner, and even with a 4 in. suspension lift (with 33's), and no front sway bar, it is much more stable in turns and the body roll is much less than the stock setup (I had this vehicle before it was lifted).
And while you are under your Runner, get a few cans of something like the Rustoleum rust coversion, and spray anything that looks rusty.
For the saggy rear end, get the add-a-leafs (AALs). The rear leafs on the IFS 1st gens are the same as the pickup, as far as I know. Since a 4Runner is much heavier over the rear axle than a pickup, the springs are actually underated for the 4Runner. The extra spring rate added by the AAL will improve the ride, in addition to raising the rear end 1 1/2 in at the axle. Installing the AALs is easy (not as easy as changing the shackles, but the shackles will not improve your ride the AALs will). Just make sure that you purchase a full length AAL set, not a short set.
I have this setup on my 4Runner, and even with a 4 in. suspension lift (with 33's), and no front sway bar, it is much more stable in turns and the body roll is much less than the stock setup (I had this vehicle before it was lifted).
And while you are under your Runner, get a few cans of something like the Rustoleum rust coversion, and spray anything that looks rusty.
Last edited by Gonzo4Runner; 09-13-2007 at 09:16 PM.
