Kiwipushrod

http://www.fleetwatch.co.za/magazine...ToyotaDyna.htm

JD

I think I'd better add some more pieces to the puzzle and hope I don't get too confusing

Greg

The R150/151 respective overdrive tooth count ratios to three decimal places gives an exact overdrive of 0.837 so rounded up its 16% or rounded down it's 17%. Even using 6 decimal places it won't get to 18% .

The Dyna truck is a Toyota cabover truck available in various tonnages. http://www.tradecarview.com/stock/de...aid=1&oid=3339

But I would suspect you guys never got these for reasons as below

You will have heard of the Marlin HD rock crawler gearset available for the Toy. Check option in this link

http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/transmission/3a.htm

ie, 1st = 5.15, 2 = 2.74, OD = 0.83 etc etc

Well guys they are gear sets from an Oz Dyna truck R452 trans and Marlin was getting these from Oz. In fact I was contacted to ascertain whether I could also supply them Whether he is still getting them from Oz or now direct from Japan I don't know.

The Dyna trans uses a cast case with an outside selector mechanism arm but it is still an R series so its a simple matter of removing the internals and transplanting them into your alloy R150/151 trans and bingo you have 5.15 1st rock crawler gear

Marks 4WD in Oz also sells these as a HD replacement trans for the Toy truck/4Runner in the cast casing with a slightly modified outside selector to better suit the Toy truck/4Runner R series gearlever etc but in reality the only HD bit is the cast case as except for the gear ratios the internals are exactly the same as a bog stock R150/151 !!!!!

I looked at all these R trans years ago and worked out that is was possible to swap the various overdrive gears as they are removeable and if fitted as indicated you can change your overdrive

There could be other alternatives as the Aisin trans is also used in other vehicles, ie, Jeep AX15, GM etc but I haven't had access to these others to pull apart for a snoop and I was happy that I determined that the R154 could easily be increased to a 37% overdrive so my 4Runner could cruise like this

http://members.iinet.net.au/~ozrunne...s/Cruising.jpg

I understand the later T100 trans has a slightly longer input shaft than the normal R150 but its still just under the R154. I am also unaware of its ratios.

Kiwi

Before you make a decision you need to consider the first gear and diff ratios as well, ie do you want a "street" 1st gear as well etc.

The R150 = 3.83, R151 = 4.31, R154 = 3.25

If you want a good trans for general use and cruising then I would say the R154 is the way to go. I use 4.56 gears but 32" tyres are about as big as you can go with this first but I also have a V8. 4.8's will let you go to larger tyres and still give you a good 1st for wheeling and also have a reasonable OD and it can be changed to 37%.

R154's are not plentiful at least over here but on the upside its stock 25% OD might be just perfect for your needs and tyres etc and its super easy to go to a 37% as R150/151 trans are plentiful to get their OD gears

You can get a 30% OD in the R150 but you will need to source a Dyna truck trans which seems it is not going to be easy . However, as it has a 3.83 1st you could use 4.1 gears to make it more streetable for take off etc and its stock 17% OD might be fine depending on what tyres you use etc. Again you could go to lower rear gears 3.7 etc if you use a R151 as having a 4.31 1st means it gives you more to play with and again the stock 17% OD would be more than enough with these rear gears.

I don't know if all this info that's in my head is coming out right when reading it but what I'm inferring is you need to make a chart of the zillion gear variables and options and using the formulars etc work out what the various speed and rpms are etc but also consider your 1st gear, eg 4.56 x 3.25 is a 14.82 overall 1st ratio, which is about as low as you can go to take off with 32's.

But in addition you will also have to consider what is the lowest rpm your engine could cruise at 65mph, ie what is its torque curve etc. It might sound great having it cruise at 2100rpm but if the torque is not there you will use more gas trying to maintain 65mph so you will save zip and have spent a lot of money to boot

What is your loaded tyre radius, ie distance from ground to center of axle as it now sits.

JD

Kiwipushrod

Hey JD, Guys, I love this thread!

JD, as usaual Your info is easily comprehended and readable, I can not Thank You, enough, for sharing Your TECH. I even read some info, between the lines.

I also agree, with the 25%, overdrive, for My application.

I have ordered a R154, for $250, (I should see it by next Wed. and decided not to salvage the Supra) I plan on a 25%, overdrive, "R154F" conversion, My only concern, is the jump in ratio's from 4th gear, to 5th gear(overdrive), I think the L67, S/C (that build is started), would be fine with it, but I'm not sure about the L36 N/A,....And as usaual, some one has to do it to find out. I'm not an engineer, but play one, on the net. (I hope You Guys get My humor)

Here is some of My logic, if You can call it that, I've always done things by "feel", rather then number's.



Toyota Motor Candy, for the rest of You swapper's

Thanks to 4RnrRick, for the compilation.

20R, 2.2L, 90 HP@4800, 122 Ft-Lbs@2400
22R, 2.4L, 96 HP@4800, 129 Ft-Lbs@2800
22RE, 2.4L, 112 HP@4600, 142 Ft-Lbs@3400
22RTE, 2.4L, 135 HP@4800, 173 Ft-Lbs@2800, 6psi
20R/22R Hybrid, Estimated 135-155 HP depending on build
2RZFE, 2.4L, 142 HP@5000, 160 Ft-Lbs@4000
3RZFE, 2.7L, 150 HP@4800, 177 Ft-Lbs@4000
3VZ-E, 3.0L, 150 HP@4800, 180 Ft-Lbs@3400
5VZ-FE,3.4L, 190 HP@4800, 220 Ft-Lbs@3600
5M-GE, 2.7L, 143 HP@5200, 154 Ft-Lbs@4400
7M-GE, 3.0L, 199 HP@6000, 188 Ft-Lbs@3600
7M-GTE,3.0L, 232 HP@5600, 254 Ft-Lbs@3200, 5psi




My Buick Motors

L36, 3.8L, N/A, 205 HP@5200, 230 Ft-Lbs@4000
L67, 3.8L, S/C, 240 HP@5200, 280 Ft-Lbs@3600 (very underrated)

For My calculation/Guesstimations, I will only consider Ft/Lbs of torque. My best analogy, of the difference between, Torque and Horsepower, is as follows; Horsepower is how fast You hit the Brick wall,....Torque, is how far You take it with You, after the impact. I'm only concerned with how far I can take the wall with Me.


I dont have actuall torque/RPM, Graphs, only ratings, so I'll have to make some, Kiwi guesses.
If I look at the 22re's #'s, 142 Ft-Lbs@3400, I know that @ 65mph, It ran about, 2600rpm. I'm going to take an educated guess, and say that at 2600 rpm, it makes No More, then 120 Ft-lbs (probably more then generous) of torque. depending on Throttle blade angle/fuel enrichment/load, But still, no more then a 120 Ft-lbs @2600 rpm.
A 142 Ft lbs rating, is an impressive #, for a 2.4L motor. It's Long stroke (tractor) design, affords this strong torque #. Unfortunatly, this design, is also the motors downfall for fuel effeciency, a long stroke creates more piston/cylinder wall, drag per revolution, then a shorter stroke motor. This is also why they dont like to rev. As many 22r hot rodders have found out. Including TRD, from what I've been told. The rest of this is another thread.

Anyway,..then I look at the L36's #,230Ft-Lbs@4000,..Hmmm.. So all I have to do, to move this truck along @ 65mph, is produce a 120 Ft-Lbs. Well Another Kiwi Guess, is that the L36 will produce this tq #, @less then 2000 rpm. As My truck is now (@2400 rpm, @65mph) it's already returning, a better then 23mpg rating, in mixed driving, and it's also now, Fun to drive. So I cant seem to keep My foot out of it. My avg., before the swap, was 14.7mpg, in mixed driving, over the last 2 yrs.

We'll see.... Everyone, please feel free, to throw Your $.O2, in the mix. Other opinions, keep the brain working.

Thanks, Kiwi

JD

Kiwi

Yikes $200 for an R154. If you can find them here they go for anything from $1500-2000. Mine cost me $1400 8 years ago.

With those torque figures I think your should be fine as 25% is only 8% more than what you have now so it should be just enough to drop your rpm's down a tad but still allow you to cruise at 65mph.

You just need to be mindful of the taller 3.25 1st gear, ie mine has a healthy V8 with 4.56's and 32" Michelin LTX A/T's and even I could not go to 4.3 without clutch stall issues in normal take off on tar, but give it some gas and that's another story

JD

Old pics.

Kiwipushrod

Oh My! . Does that Thing have, PUSHRODS.

Thanks, Kiwi

Greg_Canada

I am so jealous of that 5.0.
Right now i'm running 33's and 4.10's and the gearing is perfect on the highway, just i would like a bit lower gearing otherwise.
thats why i was thinking r150 1-4 gears and a r154 OD... but with 4.88 axle gears. That would give me all the low end power i want and still have nice highway cruising. I've got a 3.0 with exhaust and i can cruise at 2000-2500rpm all day long on the highway...

JD

Greg

No mate you can only get the different overdrives by the combinations I mentioned earlier, ie

R150/151 - Fit OD gears from a R452 to get a 30% OD. But you must get the right OD gear count trans.

R154 - Fit OD gears from a R150/151 to get 37% OD.

Fitting R154 OD gears to a R150/151 will do zip and give you another 1:1 top gear

Problem is though the R154 has a 30mm longer input shaft so its not a direct bolt up to your existing bellhousing. But anything can be modified so its a case of how much you want it and of course $$$$$'s

There's a guy in Oz that had a specialised metal shop cut 30mm out of an R154 input and then rewelded and heat treated etc so it could then be a straight bolt up. I haven't heard whether it still works or it broke, but that would be too risky for me

I'd look at whether a 30mm alloy plate between the bell and trans would work

JD

JD

Yep and they "push" Jesel shaft rockers

Greg_Canada

Oooohhh nice.
r154's are fairly easy to find here. Maybe a nice rebuild, some 4.88 diff gears and a r150 OD, and i'll be in business! Dude i'm so happy you found this stuff out. I could prob pick up a good r154 core for about $300...

JD

Greg

Hmmmmm, here's what I've been trying to point out that you need to be aware of with the R154 1st gear and why you need do the maths for all gears and combinations to determine if overall they will be better etc.

You indicated that your gearing is a bit high with your current combo.

So you first is currently 3.83 x 4.1 = 15.70

The R154 with 4.88 will be

3.25 x 4.88 = 15.86.

No great difference to what your 1st gear is now

So if its difficult to take off on tar now, the R154 and 4.88's is not going to be much different. But 2,3,4 will be better as the 4.88's will have an affect on those gears.

I'd also try the R154 standard 25% OD first as you might find the extra 8% enough but if not then yep you can always swap in a set of R150/151 OD gears for a 37% OD.

JD

Erick

if you look for the v6 4runner 3.92 axles f/r, i bet you'll be able to get a lot better mileage on top of the r154f. has this been a thought for you or are you settling for just the tranny mod?

~Erick

Kiwipushrod

Hey Erick, Guys,

I'm going to do the R154F, first, and You can only do one mod at a time, to keep control, of Your results. I must find out how every Mod changes My MPG, over a few tanks of fuel in order to be reasonably sure of it's effect.

There are way to many variables already, including, My own bias.

The biggest problem with the original Swap result is, I forgot how much fun it was to drive a "sleeper", ( I've built a few over the years ) The look on the faces of the, Go Go Magazine reading, K&N cold air kit buying, 4" exaust with chrome tip weilding teenagers, when the old Rusty Toy 4x4 pu goes by em,........Is Freaking priceless,.. It's Too much Fun, and also, bad for My MPG.

Thanks, Kiwi

Kiwipushrod

Hey Guys,

Heres a clip, Listen to the Napa $22 Turbo muffler.

http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/j...=newmov003.flv

Thanks, Kiwi

Kiwipushrod

Hey Guys,

Alright, I'm now finished, with My HotRod phase, and it's back to redneck MPG "science".

The motor is running exellent, but much richer then it needs to, partially because I have not achieved "Cruise mode", with the GM ecm.

Cruise mode, is not the same as "closed loop". I have closed loop, within 30 seconds of start, with O2 heaters, which is good, but not the goal.

CM is the leanest A/F ratio, the stock ecm can produce. To achieve CM, 4 parameters must be matched to meet the ecm's requirements, TPS position, RPM, Calculated load, and Vehical Speed.

Well.....I dont have a GM VSS (Vehical Speed Sensor) to fit the Toy trans..So I'll have to make one.


The R150F mech. speedo drive (top) with a 92' GM mech/vss combo drive. Speedo cable threads are the same! (Vss, makes an AC signal)




The GM speedo gear becomes a coupler, for the shafts




Works in the shop, we'll see.



My next move, was to tweak the breathing of the 3800. Heres My 98' 1/2 ton GM air filter ($14), mated to the Camaros stock Air cleaner boot. (Not good for off road, but I can build a water shroud/snorkel later) Ya think this Breathes?







Now for the other end, Exaust... I didnt think the (Napa off the shelf) crossover pipe was very efficient, so I cut it open, and found out I was right.
Bottle neck.





Cut and filed as needed.






Then welded 3" in place of 2 1/2" pipe. It will flow now, thru a Napa Turbo shorty muffler. (not a glass pak) I'm still looking for the right Cat., they seem to be in short supply.lol







I also replaced the 2 core radiator, with a 3.0, 3 core ($133), the smaller rad. was not a problem, but it has been leaking for a while, so Why not upgrade. Bolts right in.




Thanks, Kiwi

Kiwipushrod

Hey Guys,

I almost forgot the best pic of the day!











Thanks, Kiwi

Kiwipushrod

Hey Guys,

I only thought I pulled it off!

My home made vss, will only work in an older ecm, that requires 2 ac impulses per revolution, unfortunatly, The 97' Camaro ecm requires 40 ac impulses, per revolution. My computer speed never goes over 2 miles per hour,.. so no Cruise Mode Yet.

I'm now making a reluctor wheel for the R150's output flange, with 40 teeth that will get Me where I need to be, We'll see.

That's what happens when You dont do enough research!




Anyway, the truck is back to work. Scrap yard scale says truck weighs 3370#'s, it hauled 1750#'s of scap, no problem. ($103)
I'm looking for last years tickets to compare. will post.






The truck is still, returning 23 to 24 mpg, now, in default. (Hot rod phase, only 18mpg) I think with Cruise Mode and Decel Fuel, 28's are possible, yea I said 28. (With out hacking the ecm's tables, and forcing open loop.) From there who knows?... We'll see.

I'm still working on the "R154F", I'm just more worried about getting this ecm, dailed in first, then I'll add the gear change. Any Feedback?

Thanks, Kiwi

BAZ

Hello fellow Wisconsinite. Awesome build thread, very unique. Look here for your tire needs www.treadwright.com I'm running the green diamond OTR's and I've been extremely happy with my purchase. Cant beat the price either. PS: Go Brew Crew!

Erick

Is it bad for the engine to hack the computer loops? how about the electronics?

Kiwipushrod

Hey Guys,

New mileage figures, some hod rodding (not much), 18miles with 1750# load of scrap, 1 hour running in shop, for tuning/vss, about 35 miles @70-75mph, all the rest in/around, town. Over 4 days.

141.6 miles on 5.78 Gals = 24.49 MPG! Same pump, Same fill method. This also puts My tank range over 400 miles.

After a few tanks of fuel, to make sure it is what I think it is, I'll add EGR (Get rid of those block off plates!!) and the taller gearing of the "R154F". With new 32" tires, I really think, 30 MPG hwy. is possible, We'll see.

The addition of vss, has changed the character of the truck, it's power band is much smoother and managable, even the exaust tone has changed.

Word of this Build, has spread around a "bit", and I now seem to have people wanting, a 25mpg 4x4 mini truck, for themselves. I actually had some one yell, "Kiwipushrod" at a redlight, a few days ago,.....I hit the gas and got the hell out of there!... It must have been the "Buick grill badge".

Anyway, I got what I was after, a Toyota 4X4 truck that performs, is economical, and still reliable. I could not have done it, without this computer, Yotatech's cup holder mods, and Your help,...Thank You!, Over an Out, Kiwi

abecedarian

Change the wipers out to a single 'euro' style-full-screen wiper, add a spoiler, some cool 'wedge' graphics from the front wheel to the hatch.. oh wait, no hatch... the tailgate, and ditch the 'buick' logo and you'll pick up about 1.5 sec in the 1/4 mile, 2 sec in the 0-60 mph, and about 15 mph in top-speed!

Oh wait... this isn't ricecop?

Oh well. Damn nice to see the real alternatives. I didn't think this thread would go as far as it did. I hate you people for making me think!