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Defective diagnostic connector/plug for 93 4Runner
I have a 1993 V6 4Runner, around 150K miles.
I have to get this car smogged biennually and last Thursday, I went to a smog shop that was open even during this lockdown. He said the emission was fine but when he tried to read the data using the diagnostic data connector, he couldn't get a reading. He said that when he plugged it in, the check engine light (CEL) went on. But when he took the reader off, the CEL went off. By law, he can't pass my 4Runner for smog test until he can get a reading using the diagnostic data connector.
It looks like the diagnostic data connector is bad or the pin underneath it is bad. I have to get this problem fixed. How much would it cost to replace the current diagnostic connector with a new one?
That smog guy is an idiot. Go to a different shop asap! He should not need to plug in any kind of scanner into an obd1 system. When my guy does my pickup, he jumps the diagnostic port just to check timing and for any stored codes and all he uses is a piece of wire.
From the factory, the diagnostic connector is filled with non-conductive "grease" to protect the terminals. It looks like your cap is missing (it has a plastic "hinge"), so you may have more dirt than usual. Unless you have conductive dirt (yes, some is), you can just pick up the connector with the standard SST (the one all of us use is a paper-clip). Poke through the grease. Since you may be missing the cap, all this talk of "TE1" and "E1" might be Greek to you. The FSM has a drawing of the connector. http://web.archive.org/web/201211190...85diagnosi.pdf If you can make the connection, the CEL will flash evenly (about 2x / second). If you have codes, the FSM tells how to read them from the flashes.
You may have misunderstood what the tech said (or, it is possible, he really doesn't know what he is doing). Like everyone else, he has to jumper E1 to TE1 to measure timing, and to check for stored codes. It is possible to build a "reader" that will read the codes from the connector (like millballs ancient MT2500), but it isn't necessary. Just count the flashes.
It is possible the tech is correct, and one of the two pins you need has been pushed out of the connector body, or you have a broken wire. Visual inspection will tell you. I'd start with a Q-tip and paint thinner to remove the grease (and dirt).
Commercially available "Electrical Contact Cleaner" will clean that grease and dirt out fast, and leave the contacts ready for use.
I recommend it strongly for something like this. The other things may work nicely as well, I don't know. I spent my working life as an Electronics Technician, and I discovered the effectiveness of Contact Cleaner very early on, so that's what I always used.
No matter what you use, definately clean out the grease, and see if you can find a cover for the connector. It will help a lot in the future.
You can also make a jumper wire super cheap. A short length, like 2-4 inches, of 14Ga wire, with a male spade terminal crimped onto each end. Might cost you up to $3.00! I know, very steep, but well worth the investment. The terminals will fit the test connectors very nicely, and stay in place while you do various tests.
From the factory, the diagnostic connector is filled with non-conductive "grease" to protect the terminals. It looks like your cap is missing (it has a plastic "hinge"), so you may have more dirt than usual.
I still have the cap. The cap has always been on the diagnostic port. But the hinge broke. So while I can take the cap off, it doesn't hang off to the side. When I took the picture, I took the cap off and put it off to the side.
I don't know what that white stuff/crud is. I bought this car used, back in 2000, from a Toyota dealership so I don't know who the original owner is. It isn't dirt. It's some milky-white plastic crud. Maybe something from a corrosion? The battery on this car leaked and I had to replace it, along with the tubing for the A/C compressor, because the acid ate away the tubing.
Unless you have conductive dirt (yes, some is), you can just pick up the connector with the standard SST (the one all of us use is a paper-clip). Poke through the grease. Since you may be missing the cap, all this talk of "TE1" and "E1" might be Greek to you. The FSM has a drawing of the connector. http://web.archive.org/web/201211190...85diagnosi.pdf If you can make the connection, the CEL will flash evenly (about 2x / second). If you have codes, the FSM tells how to read them from the flashes.
You may have misunderstood what the tech said (or, it is possible, he really doesn't know what he is doing). Like everyone else, he has to jumper E1 to TE1 to measure timing, and to check for stored codes. It is possible to build a "reader" that will read the codes from the connector (like millballs ancient MT2500), but it isn't necessary. Just count the flashes.
It is possible the tech is correct, and one of the two pins you need has been pushed out of the connector body, or you have a broken wire. Visual inspection will tell you. I'd start with a Q-tip and paint thinner to remove the grease (and dirt).
The smog test tried to read the code using a reader. He said that the two pins (shown in the diagram in the picture that I attached) were already cleaned out and he tried to read it but it didn't work. I'm assuming that these two pins are the E1 and TE1 jumpers?
In front of me, he used a simple two prong metal pin to connect the two pins but he saw the CEL go on. He thinks the pin underneath the port is either bent or broken. I haven't had this looked at yet but I would like to get an estimate of how much it would cost before I start any repairs on this.
I could go to another smog technician but there's a complication.
That smog guy is an idiot. Go to a different shop asap! He should not need to plug in any kind of scanner into an obd1 system. When my guy does my pickup, he jumps the diagnostic port just to check timing and for any stored codes and all he uses is a piece of wire.
The smog tech said, by law, he has to read the stored codes using the smog test reader.
I could try another place but there's a complication. I go to this smog tech because he's one of the few who will pass my converter for the visual inspection.
You see, the OEM converter that came with this 4Runner got stolen about 10 years ago. I had it replaced with a Magnaflow after-market converter. The Magnaflow works really well in passing the emissions test - from the smog test records, I can tell it does a better job than the OEM converter.
However, the Magnaflow converter has an etching for the California EO number. It wasn't etched in really well so it faded and is now hard to read. This EO number is required for me to pass the smog test. The tech has to be able to read it. Thus, when I take it to most other smog techs, they say they can't read the EO number and fail me on the visual test. The smog test guy I went to was willing to go underneath the car, use a damp cloth to read the EO number, and pass the visual test. He just can't pass the car on the stored code test.
I'm surprised than any jurisdiction still requires scanning any proprietary OBD-1 system. Ask the tech what brand and model scanner he used.
Most shops have no gear to read any proprietary OBD-1 anymore.
I still have an old Snap-On MT2500 with the software and correct plugs to read these.
I think CA still requires you to connect the smog test reader to check for any stored codes for the ODB-1 system. This is an older car (pre 1996) so it doesn't have the easier ODB-2 ports and I have to have this tested at smog centers with dyno rollers.
I have two questions:
1) Is there an ODB-1 system reader for the Toyota line that I can buy? I have an ODB-2 reader for my BMW and the reader is easy to use and I can determine the error codes any time the check engine light came on for my other car.
Could I get such an equipment for an ODB-1 car?
2) If the worst happens and I have to replace the diagnostic port, how much would this repair job usually cost?
The smog tech said, by law, he has to read the stored codes using the smog test reader.
I could try another place but there's a complication. I go to this smog tech because he's one of the few who will pass my converter for the visual inspection.
You see, the OEM converter that came with this 4Runner got stolen about 10 years ago. I had it replaced with a Magnaflow after-market converter. The Magnaflow works really well in passing the emissions test - from the smog test records, I can tell it does a better job than the OEM converter.
However, the Magnaflow converter has an etching for the California EO number. It wasn't etched in really well so it faded and is now hard to read. This EO number is required for me to pass the smog test. The tech has to be able to read it. Thus, when I take it to most other smog techs, they say they can't read the EO number and fail me on the visual test. The smog test guy I went to was willing to go underneath the car, use a damp cloth to read the EO number, and pass the visual test. He just can't pass the car on the stored code test.
You said in an earlier post that he failed the test because when he hooked up his reader, the check engine light came on. That's exactly what jumping the TE1 and E1 terminals do. The light will flash every time those terminals are jumpered. If the light flashes non stop like 2 times a second, then there are no stored codes and everything is good. If it flashes 2 times then pauses and then 4 times, you would have a stored 24. The light will cycle through all the stored codes if it has any.
Easier? You CANNOT read codes from an OBD-2 vehicle without a reader. If you shop around, you can get one for $20 to $2000. On your Toyota, the code reader will set you back $0.002 (that's 1/5 of 1 cent) https://www.staples.com/staples-1-pa...product_362590 Count your blessings. Don't search around for a "reader" that works on your Toyota. With the exception of some incredibly rare devices (like the MT2500), readers that claim to work on Toyotas do nothing but jumper the pins and tell you to count the flashes.
Originally Posted by Paxos
... If the worst happens and I have to replace the diagnostic port, how much would this repair job usually cost? ...
How would we know? I'm 99.9% certain that the part is no longer available (if it ever was). So you're talking searching salvage yards to get a wrecked one. You're not going to splice 16 wires (I hope), so you'll search for the correct types of new pins to fit the connector body, and that you can re-crimp onto the wires. A long job, at best.
But the only connections you care about are TE1 and E1 (the others are useful, but frankly, not to you). If the wire is broken, you can get away with splicing a single wire. If the connector body is cracked (so the pin slides out), that's what they make glue for.
As robertm and others have pointed out, what you want to happen is stick in your SST (paperclip), and look at the flashing CEL. So do it! IF the CEL comes on solid, then something is very wrong (not the connector, I'm afraid). If it doesn't come on at all (probably not your case), then you might have a connector problem. But given that something happened when the tech used his jumper, it looks like your connection is good. If it flashes 2x /second, take it back to the technician and do it for him.
On your converter, if it really is CARB approved and all you need to do to see the number is play with a wet sponge, then take a picture! An honest tech won't stop at your picture, but if knows exactly what he's looking for (just hand him your phone and wet paper towel), he'll find it.
Bottome line you can not read stored codes through the diagnostics link connector. It outputs a 8n1 (7n?) serial stream of sensor data, VS VTA and a few others. Your newbie smog tech needs educated. Print out the FSM pages detailing check engine light codes or contact your local smog referee.
Bottome line you can not read stored codes through the diagnostics link connector. ...
Actually, you can, sorta. The Check Engine Light is brought out through the "W" pin (at least on my '94). So you could have a "reader" that reads the blinks from there. Perhaps that's what the MT2500 did. But I doubt Paxos' tech is trying to read the stored codes that way.
For that matter, I'm pretty sure the Diagnostic Codes are not in the serial stream. I've got a gadget that reads that; no codes.
That's the non-conductive grease the factory fills the test connector with to try to prevent water intrusion, and corrosion.
Get rid of it. Contact cleaner, brake cleaner, carb cleaner, paint thinner will all do the job. You might need a short, stiff plastic or hair type brush to really get down into the little nooks and crannies.
If you want to replace the grease, try using the silicone dielectric grease. Just make sure it's not touching two, or more, contacts. It might be enough to short the contacts together. Just a little dab per contact, and maybe shove a male spade terminal down into the greased contact to coat the inside. It WILL permit connection, unlike that white stuff, but still keep water out. It will even allow that super-expensive Paper Clip jumper mentioned above.
I squirt a dab into every electrical connector I connect. Plug wires, both ends, radio plugs, fuses, you name it. If trons run through it, it gets the grease. It helps.
Yes, the "stuff/crud" on top of the Diagnostic Connector is factory dielectric grease. What your connector looks like is normal.
I see no reason to get rid of the factory dielectric grease unless you are having connection issues with the pin (which we haven't determined yet, jumping with a paper clip will let you know), or if you just want to get the connector clean and put fresh, new dielectric grease on the connector.
You don't have to worry about dielectric grease shorting anything out, as by definition, it is non-conductive. You just don't want to get too much on the pins themselves because the grease can prevent a good connection.
Just to be clear, dielectric grease is intended to keep out moisture and dirt from electrical connections, but it will not conduct electricity.
Easier? You CANNOT read codes from an OBD-2 vehicle without a reader. If you shop around, you can get one for $20 to $2000. On your Toyota, the code reader will set you back $0.002 (that's 1/5 of 1 cent) https://www.staples.com/staples-1-pa...product_362590 Count your blessings. Don't search around for a "reader" that works on your Toyota. With the exception of some incredibly rare devices (like the MT2500), readers that claim to work on Toyotas do nothing but jumper the pins and tell you to count the flashes.
What I meant was that the OBD-2 vehicles are easier to get the data from. Just get a JDIAG OBD2 reader, plug it into the OBD-2 port in your car, and the reader will give you the error code(s). My other car is ODB-2 and every time any check engine light comes on, I use the reader to check the error code. I don't have to jump pins or mess around with the ODB-2 connection other than to plug in the cable from the reader.
But for the 4Runner, getting the error code is not as simple as using a ODB-2 reader. You have to jump two pins and count the flashes on the dashboard.
What I meant was that the OBD-2 vehicles are easier to get the data from. Just get a JDIAG OBD2 reader, plug it into the OBD-2 port in your car, and the reader will give you the error code(s). My other car is ODB-2 and every time any check engine light comes on, I use the reader to check the error code. I don't have to jump pins or mess around with the ODB-2 connection other than to plug in the cable from the reader.
But for the 4Runner, getting the error code is not as simple as using a ODB-2 reader. You have to jump two pins and count the flashes on the dashboard.
...But, you don't need a fancy code reader for OBD-1, you just need a paperclip.. I call that way easier than having to hook up a code reader! Opinions! Opinions everywhere! Ahhhh!
I took my 4Runner to the mechanic who I usually go to to service this car. I explained the problem. He did a quick test by jumping the TE1 and E1 connectors using a metal prong. The "check engine light" (CEL) came on so he was dubious that the pins underneath the diagnostic data port were bad. He said it was possible that the diagnostic data port itself was bad. He said he would try to get a new diagnostic data port.
He called around and told me that his sources and every Toyota dealership told him that this part is very hard to get because it's no longer made. He said he could possibly get it from a junk shop or wrecking yard but if he got the part from these places, he couldn't ensure that the part actually worked. He said to try another smog test center (as some of you advised) because there might not be anything wrong with the diagnostic port itself.
I searched for other smog test centers on the Internet and found another smog test center that said they would work thru the EO number problem on my after-market converter. So I went there and explained the two problems I had with the smog test. He lifted the 4Runner and after wiping the converter, he was able to make out the EO number. So that visual inspection passed.
He told me that he needs to only hook up the diagnostic data port if the car had adjustable timing and to check if it had any error codes. He said that my 4Runner (V6) did not have any adjustable timing so he didn't have to check it. He did jump the TE1 and E1 connectors, to see if there were any error codes. The CEL light came on but it didn't flash. There were no stored error codes. I am not familiar with the smog testing equipment but I guess if you plug it to the diagnostic data port, it jumps the TE1 and E1 connectors? Maybe this is why the first smog tech got confused?
Anyways, the smog test passed without having to replace the diagnostic data port. The first smog tech was uninformed about how to smog test the diagnostic port with this model of the 4Runner. The 2nd smog tech was more experienced and knew what to do.
I would like to thank all of you who responded to my thread. Your responses were informative and I learned more about the 4Runner's diagnostic port.
This is all good news. Well, almost. When you jumper TE1 to E1, the CEL should flash evenly at about 2x / second. If it comes on steadily, something's wrong.
You do have adjustable timing. To read it, you first jumper TE1 to E1. This tells the ECM to go to base timing and sit there. Then you check the timing old-school with a timing light pointed at the harmonic balancer. To set the timing, old school again, you rotate the distributor.
From what you've described, you may have a problem with the plastic body of the diagnostic connector, but the electrical is fine. Your first tech sees these old vehicles rarely, and his machine just says to put in the "plug" he has for that purpose. I'll bet all that plug does is jumper the two pins, but if the plug doesn't seat correctly in your connector body, it won't connect the pins. Your second tech knew how to go farther and use a paperclip. (And now, so do you.)
If it were my rig, I'd go out there now with my trusty $0.002 paper clip, jumper TE1 to E1, and turn the key to on. I'll bet you see a steady flash. If not, well, you may have another two years to worry about it.
05-09-2020, 06:15 PM
