toyminator2000

1: If your worried about your old converter being taken, like I said before. cut yours off and say it was stolen.

2: Sell it on Ebay. The local scraper will rip you off too and give you nothing for it. If it is illegal to sell it for scrap like abecedarian is claiming it is only in California and just put a statement on your Ebay ad that you won't ship to California. There are 200 + scrap cats on Ebay at any given time so I doubt its illegal or Ebay would not allow it. I've sold several there becuase the local scrapers were ripping me off when I disassemble parts trucks. I get 3 times as much for them on auctions.

3: Quit listening to abecedarian he is screwing with you.

abecedarian

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/amcatq&a.pdf
has a table saying what's legal to install and what's not.
basically, within California,
1) new OEM is legal to install
2) new aftermarket are legal if they have an exemption order in accordance with the new exemption procedures
3) used converters are not legal to sell for use on a vehicle and are not legal to install

so maybe I'm not screwing with anyone?
...and if you don't get caught, what do I know?


more reading materials: (from this page: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...ftermktcat.htm)
B.A.R. announcement regarding converters: http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...C-summer08.pdf
List of legal aftermarket converters: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...xemptcat09.pdf

small town BIG TOYS

Doe's anyone else know about this exchange thing? Is there a such thing?

I feel when you have you work done on your truck.You have a right to the parts that were replaced. Unless they need them for a core and I never herd of a core on a cat.
It's my cat they just removed it.

toyminator2000

Huh? they can't replace a converter but they can?

Wrong.

Read first quote.

Only illegal to sell for use on a motor vehicle.

This is correct.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Alright guys, maybe its time to take a breather here. You are both right, and both wrong.

Let me fill you in the legalities of cats, and scrap.

It is illegal to sell a used cat, with the intention of use in a motor vehicle. IE, you cannot sell a cat to someone who will use it in their vehicle.

It is NOT illegal to sell used cats. You can sell them to anyone, at any given time, by saying "for scrap use only". This is where scrappers make their money. They used to pay into the hundreds of dollars PER CAT for used factory Toyota cats, because of the precious metals in them. That number is down now, but scrap companies still buy cats for scrap as the metal is still worth a lot more than scrap steel pricing.

Wrecking yards, such as Nix99, CANNOT sell the cats to ANYONE but licensed scrap operations. There IS a paper trail, and the government is very interested in what we do.

If we get caught selling a non-recerted cat for use in a vehicle, its BIG $$$ fine

abecedarian

CVC27156(c): "No person shall install, sell, offer for sale, or advertise any device, apparatus, or mechanism intended for use with, or as a part of, a required motor vehicle pollution control device or system that alters or modifies the original design or performance of the motor vehicle pollution control device or system."

Title 13, California Code of Regulations 2222 (here: www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2007/amcat07/attach2.pdf and here: http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/D...D1000&vr=2%2E0) part i (1):"On or after July 1, 2008, or after 30 days from the date of filing of this subsection with the Secretary of State, whichever is later, no person shall install, sell, offer for sale, or advertise any used, recycled, or salvaged catalytic converter in California."
... I don't see where it says "for use on a vehicle" or similar wording.
but like I said above- if you don't get caught....

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

it says it in the first part you listed. You cannot sell it for use that alters the original design or performance of the system. However, if you are not offering it for USE in a SYSTEM, there are no laws governing it.

Selling a part for scrap is 100% legal, as long as it is not used as part of a motor vehicle.

abecedarian

Do you mean the CVC27156(c) link?

If that's the case, by abstraction, selling a used converter can alter the performance of a vehicle's emissions since there is no way of knowing even after recertification (which California admits there is no way to determine the remaining life and / or performance of any particular converter even if OEM) that a vehicle will maintain compliance with emissions requirements... which is why California stopped allowing the installation of a converter which had been recertified even if it is an OEM converter.

In any case, the Code of Regulations would take precedence over the Vehicle Code (which cites and defers to the COR in the footnotes)... which specifically states it is illegal to sell a converter. Offering a converter for recycling is not technically selling as the purchaser (the recycler) has no intention (or rather should have no intention) of redistributing the converter to an entity which may have cause for using the converter to restore legal operation to a vehicle.

So I suppose I should correct myself and likewise admit that recycling is not illegal. My information regarding recycling was based on the words of two different facilities that replace converters, each of which stated that the recyclers were only willing to accept converters from a licensed installer or salvage facility and not some "average joe" walking in with a basket full of converters.

Among the vehicles I own, installing new converters did not entitle me to retain possession of the converter removed from the vehicle. The only facility that did allow us to take the converter home was the one that removed a converter which was completely burned out (Sin91's truck a couple of month's back).

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Things must be drastically different in CA than in WA. If any shop didn't allow me to retain my parts, it would be illegal.

If the vehicle i am removing it from will be scrapped, this part doesn't apply since I have no intention of maintaining emissions compliance. The way to keep that in check here, is if the vehicle doesn't pass emissions, you don't get tabs. No tabs equals no drivey.

abecedarian

We have this thing where a shop is not supposed to replace a converter (anti-tampering laws) unless the emissions have been tested and the converter is the likely cause of failing emissions ... or there wasn't a converter there to begin with in which case the emisions would test bad... yada yada yada requiring a new converter.

Does that help? Does what I previously stated make more sense?

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Nothing you say makes sense Abeypoo.

Maybe the cat in your Celica is bad?

abecedarian

actually, emissions were tested during the myriad of other tests on the Celica performed while trying to figure out why it overheated only when in gear (I'd think that would a the first indicator of a larger problem: when in gear)... and it passed the emissions test with flying (far better than average) numbers.

Next consideration Mr. Kitten?

small town BIG TOYS

Thanks for all the info guys.

Now I know when I go in for a test. To do the test only. And if it fails and needs a new cat chop off the old one. And take it in for a new one. Or pay my brother to weld a new one on.

abecedarian

good luck

snobdds

There's only one way to find out...I say go for it and see what happens!

turborich

Why would anyone pay $125 for an old cat when new ones can be purchaed for $50 or less from ebay? Doesn't make any sense to me. There isn't that much precious metal in there.

small town BIG TOYS

Google can be your friend here.

small town BIG TOYS

Thank you.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Factory Toyota cats contain Palladium, Rhodium, and Platinum. Do a quick market search on what these precious metals are worth, then you will have your answer

For a while rhodium was at $10,200/ounce. Even 1/10th of an ounce would yield $1000. Multiply by 50,000 cats, and VIOLA. Bank.

small town BIG TOYS

Hey death cougar you seem to be on the ball on this. Do you know if a shop with have a living fit if my new isuzu came in without a cat when I was getting a new one installed?