Anybody have a 3VZE that starts good everytime??
#81
check the electrical connection to the igniter. Mine had this issue and it was random. Starts everytime now. connections on these vehicles are 15 plus years old now and are deteriating with age and heat. Found on mine that the igniter connection was allowing water to pass down the wires. Seeing as how your in NY i would imagine that salt is an issue and this will definately rot connections. I fixed mine with a can of electrical cleaner from advance for 5 bucks and some sealant around the connection.
I would start going through the connections and checking them.
I would start going through the connections and checking them.
#85
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Thread Starter
Wow, haven't looked at this for a while, still haven't been able to get this figured out, but then again I haven't tried very hard yet.
Yeah the problem really has nothing to do with sitting cold for a long time, I have left it sit for 2 weeks while away and it will crank up on the first crank, as I mentioned cold starts are not my issue, whether it's overnight or a month of sitting.
Hot starts either. I can shut it off run into 7-11 grab a cup of coffee and come back out 5 min later and it will barely crank, will fire over with a bump of the key. Which is kind of strange to me too, that sometimes it take a crank or two to start and sometimes it starts with no crank and just a bump of the key.
Every engine I have ever owned has started the exact same EVERY single time you turned the key, whether ice cold, sitting for 3 weeks, or hot as can be after sitting for 5-10 minutes after running. Same amount of cranks to start.
Including the two 22RE's that I have owned. Didn't matter how long or short those things sat, hot or cold, they cranked the same amount of times to start.
But now on my 3rd 3VZE and it's the 3rd one that I've had starting issues with. My '88 had the exact same problem as the '92 I currently have, same EXACT starting problem. My '91 started hard cold, but would take a bump of the key for the rest of the day, no matter how long it sat.
Just another strange thing about the 3VZE that make me nuts.
Anyway.....
I took a look around the whole intake, took it apart, and put it back together....nothing wrong with it. Drilled out the broken bolt for the coil/ignitor bracket, and cleaned up all the ground points and re-bolted it back down good and tight, checked all the connections at it too. No change.
I am gonna check my timing tomorrow, and also go through the checks for both the cold start injector and time switch. I gotta get this resolved, it annoys the hell out of me.
I saw the temp sensor mentioned in here. Does the 3VZE use one sensor for both the gauge and the ECM or does it use two? Seems like a bad temp reading to the ECM would cause a problem.
This is definitely temp related, as now since it's warmer and doesn't cool down as much, as fast, it starts hard when I come out of work and it's been sitting for like 4 or 5 hours. In the middle of winter I can come out after 2 hours and it will start fine, because it has cooled down to the point where whatever is causing the problem isn't happening at the cold temp.
Yeah the problem really has nothing to do with sitting cold for a long time, I have left it sit for 2 weeks while away and it will crank up on the first crank, as I mentioned cold starts are not my issue, whether it's overnight or a month of sitting.
Hot starts either. I can shut it off run into 7-11 grab a cup of coffee and come back out 5 min later and it will barely crank, will fire over with a bump of the key. Which is kind of strange to me too, that sometimes it take a crank or two to start and sometimes it starts with no crank and just a bump of the key.
Every engine I have ever owned has started the exact same EVERY single time you turned the key, whether ice cold, sitting for 3 weeks, or hot as can be after sitting for 5-10 minutes after running. Same amount of cranks to start.
Including the two 22RE's that I have owned. Didn't matter how long or short those things sat, hot or cold, they cranked the same amount of times to start.
But now on my 3rd 3VZE and it's the 3rd one that I've had starting issues with. My '88 had the exact same problem as the '92 I currently have, same EXACT starting problem. My '91 started hard cold, but would take a bump of the key for the rest of the day, no matter how long it sat.
Just another strange thing about the 3VZE that make me nuts.
Anyway.....
I took a look around the whole intake, took it apart, and put it back together....nothing wrong with it. Drilled out the broken bolt for the coil/ignitor bracket, and cleaned up all the ground points and re-bolted it back down good and tight, checked all the connections at it too. No change.
I am gonna check my timing tomorrow, and also go through the checks for both the cold start injector and time switch. I gotta get this resolved, it annoys the hell out of me.
I saw the temp sensor mentioned in here. Does the 3VZE use one sensor for both the gauge and the ECM or does it use two? Seems like a bad temp reading to the ECM would cause a problem.
This is definitely temp related, as now since it's warmer and doesn't cool down as much, as fast, it starts hard when I come out of work and it's been sitting for like 4 or 5 hours. In the middle of winter I can come out after 2 hours and it will start fine, because it has cooled down to the point where whatever is causing the problem isn't happening at the cold temp.
#86
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
You checked some basics but I think Skybox was on to something. Throw a pressure gauge on the fuel line, check the pressure with the engine running, 5 min. after you shut it off, and an hour after you shut it off. I'd bet you are slowly losing pressure in the fuel line which is causing some vapor lock because of engine hear. This is a common problem that's hard to diagnose in fuel injected engines. When you crank and crank you're refilling the fuel line and then eventually it restarts, sputters as the sensors catch up and correct everything, then runs good. You said it starts better when you leave the key "on" for a few seconds - the fuel pump is running and refilling the lines.
If the pressure stays constant or only decreases a little, check your other sensors. Start with the cold start injector - that's a simple check to see if it squirts when you crank the engine (search here, it's on this forum somewhere). Cold start injector is on the pass. side of the upper plenum, circled in red.
Good luck!
If the pressure stays constant or only decreases a little, check your other sensors. Start with the cold start injector - that's a simple check to see if it squirts when you crank the engine (search here, it's on this forum somewhere). Cold start injector is on the pass. side of the upper plenum, circled in red.
Good luck!
#87
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thanks rusty, I will definitely give checking the fuel pressure a shot.
I have also noticed that if you just hold the key and crank the hell out of it for 3-5 seconds without stopping, it will then fire right off. If you actually look at your watch and count 5 seconds while picturing cranking, you will see 5 seconds is a LONG crank.
Any pics of where I can hook a pressure gauge up to measure fuel pressure?
Thanks again.
I have also noticed that if you just hold the key and crank the hell out of it for 3-5 seconds without stopping, it will then fire right off. If you actually look at your watch and count 5 seconds while picturing cranking, you will see 5 seconds is a LONG crank.
Any pics of where I can hook a pressure gauge up to measure fuel pressure?
Thanks again.
#88
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You checked some basics but I think Skybox was on to something. Throw a pressure gauge on the fuel line, check the pressure with the engine running, 5 min. after you shut it off, and an hour after you shut it off. I'd bet you are slowly losing pressure in the fuel line which is causing some vapor lock because of engine hear. This is a common problem that's hard to diagnose in fuel injected engines. When you crank and crank you're refilling the fuel line and then eventually it restarts, sputters as the sensors catch up and correct everything, then runs good. You said it starts better when you leave the key "on" for a few seconds - the fuel pump is running and refilling the lines.
If the pressure stays constant or only decreases a little, check your other sensors. Start with the cold start injector - that's a simple check to see if it squirts when you crank the engine (search here, it's on this forum somewhere). Cold start injector is on the pass. side of the upper plenum, circled in red.
Good luck!
If the pressure stays constant or only decreases a little, check your other sensors. Start with the cold start injector - that's a simple check to see if it squirts when you crank the engine (search here, it's on this forum somewhere). Cold start injector is on the pass. side of the upper plenum, circled in red.
Good luck!
#89
Registered User
Thread Starter
I don't might buying a gauge at all.
Just need to know where to hook it up to, I assume somewhere on the fuel rail, but I don't see a Shraeder valve on the driver side fuel rail, and hopefully Toyota wasn't genius enough to put it on the rail that's under the plenum, for the pass side bank.
Also if it is losing fuel pressure after being shut off, then wouldn't it always start hard, and not just when after sitting for longer than 15 minutes? Wouldn't it still not have correct pressure for a cold start then too and be hard to start cold, or would the cold start injector make up for that?
Just need to know where to hook it up to, I assume somewhere on the fuel rail, but I don't see a Shraeder valve on the driver side fuel rail, and hopefully Toyota wasn't genius enough to put it on the rail that's under the plenum, for the pass side bank.
Also if it is losing fuel pressure after being shut off, then wouldn't it always start hard, and not just when after sitting for longer than 15 minutes? Wouldn't it still not have correct pressure for a cold start then too and be hard to start cold, or would the cold start injector make up for that?
#91
Registered User
Thread Starter
Didn't drive it yesterday until about 2pm, sun had been beating on it all day, and the inside was pretty hot, so inside the engine bay was hotter than 7am, when I usually leave for work.
Well since it was hotter than I when I usually start up for the first time of the day in the morning, it started kind of hard. Cranked it and it didn't start, cranked again and it stumbled a bit and died, then cranked again and it stumbled and recovered and then idled fine, ran fine all day.
So this is definitely temp related, and I don't really see how vapor lock would be an issue, if it had been sitting all night and half the next day, and wasn't started until 2pm. I can see vapor lock being an issue after it sitting for a bit after running, but not for like 20 hours. I could be wrong though.
Does this sound to anyone like the cold start injector time switch, is not turning on the cold start injector at anything except very cold temps, even when the engine may need it at semi warm starts?
Well since it was hotter than I when I usually start up for the first time of the day in the morning, it started kind of hard. Cranked it and it didn't start, cranked again and it stumbled a bit and died, then cranked again and it stumbled and recovered and then idled fine, ran fine all day.
So this is definitely temp related, and I don't really see how vapor lock would be an issue, if it had been sitting all night and half the next day, and wasn't started until 2pm. I can see vapor lock being an issue after it sitting for a bit after running, but not for like 20 hours. I could be wrong though.
Does this sound to anyone like the cold start injector time switch, is not turning on the cold start injector at anything except very cold temps, even when the engine may need it at semi warm starts?
#92
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I have to admit that does seem a little odd to me as well that it didn't start real well just because the sun and outside air temp seemed to warm it up enough. I would think that the pressure build up inside the fuel tank would be enough to push fuel up the lines to your injectors and keep it there and not be vapor locked. I checked the haynes manual to see if there is a pressure test location but couldn't find anything. It did say your pressure should be around 30-40 something, I can't remember the exact numbers.
#93
might sound stupid, but timing? when i bought my runner it was timed like -15 degrees.
Had trouble starting sometimes and no power. Initially I thought it was just because I was switching from a 4.0 inline(JeepXJ) to a 3.slow. Anyway doesnt take any time to check. Good luck!
Had trouble starting sometimes and no power. Initially I thought it was just because I was switching from a 4.0 inline(JeepXJ) to a 3.slow. Anyway doesnt take any time to check. Good luck!
I still have a Jeep XJ with a 4.0 and I had another one in the past (both pre-1991 Renix) and they both needed a lot of cranking before they would start. And so did a few others that I started (even when they were much newer!).
But so does my 3VZE with 142k miles on it. It never really bothered me but yesterday night, I was wondering why it does that while I was starting it (it has been sitting for about 2 hours when I started it). I haven't noticed if it's worse in any situation, just needs cranking for a while almost everytime. And since a few weeks, it still idles fine and accelerates ok but seems to misfire at around 1800-2200 rpm. I guess it needs a tuneup (at least!) and maybe something related to the cold start injector...
#94
I would have loved a conclusion to this thread, sorry for reviving it after so long. I've been troubleshooting the same problem in my 4runner for the last 3 years. I've hooked up the fuel tester to the line and found all the pressures are within limits of the FSM. My question to you is, if you jump across the fuel pump test ports and let the fuel pump run for a few seconds before starting does it work just fine? Mine does, although I don't know what it means.
#95
My 3VZE started instantly, the second the key reached the ON position. Not bad for a truck with 278k/miles!
Not to mention, she blew like-new emissions numbers this last smog test, on the original exhaust and cat!
Not to mention, she blew like-new emissions numbers this last smog test, on the original exhaust and cat!
#96
Registered User
If you think you're not getting enough gas in the engine at startup try this.
Like an old carb with a spray nozzle and a pump to make them start the 3vz has a similar system every time you turn the key on it pumps gas into the in intake and injectors. I know this because when my starter was acting up I flooded the engine more than once.
Like an old carb with a spray nozzle and a pump to make them start the 3vz has a similar system every time you turn the key on it pumps gas into the in intake and injectors. I know this because when my starter was acting up I flooded the engine more than once.
#100
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I don't might buying a gauge at all.
Just need to know where to hook it up to, I assume somewhere on the fuel rail, but I don't see a Shraeder valve on the driver side fuel rail, and hopefully Toyota wasn't genius enough to put it on the rail that's under the plenum, for the pass side bank.
Also if it is losing fuel pressure after being shut off, then wouldn't it always start hard, and not just when after sitting for longer than 15 minutes? Wouldn't it still not have correct pressure for a cold start then too and be hard to start cold, or would the cold start injector make up for that?
Just need to know where to hook it up to, I assume somewhere on the fuel rail, but I don't see a Shraeder valve on the driver side fuel rail, and hopefully Toyota wasn't genius enough to put it on the rail that's under the plenum, for the pass side bank.
Also if it is losing fuel pressure after being shut off, then wouldn't it always start hard, and not just when after sitting for longer than 15 minutes? Wouldn't it still not have correct pressure for a cold start then too and be hard to start cold, or would the cold start injector make up for that?
Jon H.