About to defect to Jeep...
05-21-2008, 10:55 PM
#43
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Cherokees are hard to find cheap??? i see them regularly for 500-800 dollars here.
lets do a quick non biased review of a cherokee
Pros:
1. AMC 4.0L I6 is a very proven, durable, and buildable motor
2. solid front and rear axles
3. very very cheap, lots of parts, cheap parts
4. good low-end torque for towing, and can legally tow slightly more than a 4runner.
Cons:
1. Dana 30 or Dana 35 front axles offered (absolute crap)
2. most cherokees use either a Dana 30 rear end, or a chrysler 8.25" rear end which is marginally stronger but still ty.
3. Horribly useless gearing! (most cherokees use 3.50, 3.55, or at the most 3.83)
4.Unibody construction
5.not very reliable or powerful automatic transmissions (some of the newer cherokee classics use toyota automatic transmissions, but they still suck)
6. MPGs are not the best with the 4.0L though if you have a 3vz-e nothing can possible be much worse...
So in the long run, if you are looking for something to lift and use for very light 4wheeling, a cherokee is a good platform because they are very cheap, and parts are very cheap. HOWEVER, if you want to use it for serious 4x4ing you will find that though the parts are all dirt cheap, you will be upgrading so many of them that you might as well of just stuck with the 4runner, because by the time you have a setup thats even capable of wheeling with 33" tires without serious trail breakage you will have different front and rear axles, control arms, different gears, a different tranny if its an auto, and a new driveline.
lets do a quick non biased review of a cherokee
Pros:
1. AMC 4.0L I6 is a very proven, durable, and buildable motor
2. solid front and rear axles
3. very very cheap, lots of parts, cheap parts
4. good low-end torque for towing, and can legally tow slightly more than a 4runner.
Cons:
1. Dana 30 or Dana 35 front axles offered (absolute crap)
2. most cherokees use either a Dana 30 rear end, or a chrysler 8.25" rear end which is marginally stronger but still ty.
3. Horribly useless gearing! (most cherokees use 3.50, 3.55, or at the most 3.83)
4.Unibody construction
5.not very reliable or powerful automatic transmissions (some of the newer cherokee classics use toyota automatic transmissions, but they still suck)
6. MPGs are not the best with the 4.0L though if you have a 3vz-e nothing can possible be much worse...
So in the long run, if you are looking for something to lift and use for very light 4wheeling, a cherokee is a good platform because they are very cheap, and parts are very cheap. HOWEVER, if you want to use it for serious 4x4ing you will find that though the parts are all dirt cheap, you will be upgrading so many of them that you might as well of just stuck with the 4runner, because by the time you have a setup thats even capable of wheeling with 33" tires without serious trail breakage you will have different front and rear axles, control arms, different gears, a different tranny if its an auto, and a new driveline.
05-24-2008, 08:10 AM
#44
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I've got my 87' Runner, and practically had to give away my 03' Overland. I used to visit the JeepForum website for tech questions, and any time the discussion of reliability came up, rarely would anyone even utter the word Toyota, it's a dirty word over there. They (Jeep owners) all know about the reliability of Toyota, but many of them want to stick with an American brand out of pride. I can understand that, and brand loyalty goes along way. But having had both now, there's no way in hell I'd own a Jeep again.
Fix your Yota, or buy a newer one.
Fix your Yota, or buy a newer one.
05-31-2008, 07:53 PM
#45
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just empty every pocket=jeep
Cherokees are hard to find cheap??? i see them regularly for 500-800 dollars here.
lets do a quick non biased review of a cherokee
Pros:
1. AMC 4.0L I6 is a very proven, durable, and buildable motor
2. solid front and rear axles
3. very very cheap, lots of parts, cheap parts
4. good low-end torque for towing, and can legally tow slightly more than a 4runner.
Cons:
1. Dana 30 or Dana 35 front axles offered (absolute crap)
2. most cherokees use either a Dana 30 rear end, or a chrysler 8.25" rear end which is marginally stronger but still ty.
3. Horribly useless gearing! (most cherokees use 3.50, 3.55, or at the most 3.83)
4.Unibody construction
5.not very reliable or powerful automatic transmissions (some of the newer cherokee classics use toyota automatic transmissions, but they still suck)
6. MPGs are not the best with the 4.0L though if you have a 3vz-e nothing can possible be much worse...
So in the long run, if you are looking for something to lift and use for very light 4wheeling, a cherokee is a good platform because they are very cheap, and parts are very cheap. HOWEVER, if you want to use it for serious 4x4ing you will find that though the parts are all dirt cheap, you will be upgrading so many of them that you might as well of just stuck with the 4runner, because by the time you have a setup thats even capable of wheeling with 33" tires without serious trail breakage you will have different front and rear axles, control arms, different gears, a different tranny if its an auto, and a new driveline.
lets do a quick non biased review of a cherokee
Pros:
1. AMC 4.0L I6 is a very proven, durable, and buildable motor
2. solid front and rear axles
3. very very cheap, lots of parts, cheap parts
4. good low-end torque for towing, and can legally tow slightly more than a 4runner.
Cons:
1. Dana 30 or Dana 35 front axles offered (absolute crap)
2. most cherokees use either a Dana 30 rear end, or a chrysler 8.25" rear end which is marginally stronger but still ty.
3. Horribly useless gearing! (most cherokees use 3.50, 3.55, or at the most 3.83)
4.Unibody construction
5.not very reliable or powerful automatic transmissions (some of the newer cherokee classics use toyota automatic transmissions, but they still suck)
6. MPGs are not the best with the 4.0L though if you have a 3vz-e nothing can possible be much worse...
So in the long run, if you are looking for something to lift and use for very light 4wheeling, a cherokee is a good platform because they are very cheap, and parts are very cheap. HOWEVER, if you want to use it for serious 4x4ing you will find that though the parts are all dirt cheap, you will be upgrading so many of them that you might as well of just stuck with the 4runner, because by the time you have a setup thats even capable of wheeling with 33" tires without serious trail breakage you will have different front and rear axles, control arms, different gears, a different tranny if its an auto, and a new driveline.
Have you driven a 3rd gen Runner? Once you feel the cush ride of the gen3s you will never look back to a 2nd gen-ok maybe still have one for a project vehicle....I would think most folks agree the 3rd gen reliability and the 3.4 are 2 good reasons to step up a generation.
Can they be converted to solid axle?-well- yes it is expensive but you can find a lot of articulation and upgrades to 3rd gens, some would say there are more options than with the 2nd gens.
There is probably a 3rd gen out there right now for you with a good combination of lift and other off road capability.
I miss my old 2nd gen for it's more truck like feel and ruggedness-but my newer 3rd gen just has a great combination of creature features and off road ability.
05-31-2008, 08:05 PM
#46
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i plan to upgrade to a gen3 runner with 3.4litre auto to tow my trail rig gen 2 and sell my dd gen 2 eventually... ill know when i find the right one.. till then ill just keep on improving my 2 yotas 
cant wait for the coumfy elocked smoooothing riding powerful DD!!!
until then ill love my 22res.
jeep???
my friend just got a 08 rubicon dual lockers upgraded d44 blah blah blah...35k canadian and we got it stuck real bad first time out.. and it smells funny when wheeling.
cant wait for the coumfy elocked smoooothing riding powerful DD!!!
until then ill love my 22res.
jeep???
my friend just got a 08 rubicon dual lockers upgraded d44 blah blah blah...35k canadian and we got it stuck real bad first time out.. and it smells funny when wheeling.
05-31-2008, 11:52 PM
#47
06-01-2008, 12:31 AM
#48
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06-01-2008, 08:44 AM
#49
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Don't forget weaker D35 or Chrys. 8.25 axles. And, there's no way you can fit larger tires on a Cherokee for less. 33X10.50 will fit a stock 4Runner thats the same tire size Rubicon Express recommends for their $1500 5.5" short arm kit. Then you still have drivetrain modifications.
$1500+ $700 for tires= $2200
or
$700 for just tires
Pretty easy decision for me...
$1500+ $700 for tires= $2200
or
$700 for just tires
Pretty easy decision for me...
06-01-2008, 08:39 PM
#50
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My personal opinion is, sell your 4runner, get another 4runner. Yes, toyotas are damn reliable but the odd one is gonna run crappy because not every vehicle is exactly the same and you probably just got a beat one which hasnt been maintained well. Jeeps are not nearly as reliable for the most part, although you could get lucky. They are not as good in my opinion for 4x4ing (especially a cherokee compoared to a 4runner). they get worse gas mileage, dont last as long as they are domestic. They lack some of the cool things about the 4runner, eg. short wheel base, high stance, and they are much wider so dont expect to go up any quad trails or narrow passages like you could with your 4runner. Honeslty if you got 10 4runners, 9 of them are gona run amazing and will take a beating, but one will probably cause problems and not work right. You probably just got that one. My friend has a new grand cherokee and he never wheels it or anything, just city driving, the thing has taken no abuse what soever and the damn thing is just falling apart, almost brand new, its unbelievable. I am not exagerating either. And one last thing. You will always get more respect driving a toyota than driving a jeep. And dont even get me started on resale. hah. So its pretty obvious where i stand, although not surprising considering this is a toyota forum. Hope that helps. Try checking out a jeep forum and seeing how they like their rigs.
06-01-2008, 09:32 PM
#51
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Sounds like you're at the back side of the "repair curve." Park it for a bit, do some overhaul, I think you'll be happy. "Preventative" should be a word you get used to. I'm currently building a '90 Runner and have started (almost) from scratch. Interior, suspension, drivetrain, intake, exhaust, no gearing or lift needed for my cause. When done, will survive a nuclear holocaust like Reagan's hair and cockroaches....
06-01-2008, 09:35 PM
#52
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My personal opinion is, sell your 4runner, get another 4runner. Yes, toyotas are damn reliable but the odd one is gonna run crappy because not every vehicle is exactly the same and you probably just got a beat one which hasnt been maintained well. Jeeps are not nearly as reliable for the most part, although you could get lucky. They are not as good in my opinion for 4x4ing (especially a cherokee compoared to a 4runner). they get worse gas mileage, dont last as long as they are domestic. They lack some of the cool things about the 4runner, eg. short wheel base, high stance, and they are much wider so dont expect to go up any quad trails or narrow passages like you could with your 4runner. Honeslty if you got 10 4runners, 9 of them are gona run amazing and will take a beating, but one will probably cause problems and not work right. You probably just got that one. My friend has a new grand cherokee and he never wheels it or anything, just city driving, the thing has taken no abuse what soever and the damn thing is just falling apart, almost brand new, its unbelievable. I am not exagerating either. And one last thing. You will always get more respect driving a toyota than driving a jeep. And dont even get me started on resale. hah. So its pretty obvious where i stand, although not surprising considering this is a toyota forum. Hope that helps. Try checking out a jeep forum and seeing how they like their rigs.
True story: 3 of my friends all drive white Jeep Cherokees, all with 31x10.50's and 3" lift kits. they all parked together at school... I pull up in my yota, sporting 31x10.50's, a factory option, and park next to my friend who's lift is brand new. my truck, with its 17 year old sagging suspension, was taller. thats when the crap started. I was reminded daily how much of a post (P.O.S. Toyota) my truck was, which it is because its the odd truck out, but they meant it brand wide. We finally went wheeling together.
thats when all the Toyota bashing seized and the compliments!!! came out. they even rescinded all they had said before. talk about a change in heart. mine was all stock, their's decently modded, and I have IFS and straight treads. proof that Toyota's are indeed not inferior, and in fact superior to Jeep's.
if you ever think about going to a Jeep, remember one thing.
Japenese Engineering Eventually Prevails
then slap yourself in the head for thinking so stupidly.
I bet if you go to the Jeep forums, you wont find near as many convert-to-a-different-brand-and-love-it-more stories as you could here.
and just to clarify, I actually wouldn't mind owning a Cherokee as a woodland beater. the 4.0 I6 is a magnificent engine! I would call it the 22RE of Jeeps, but that is far too grand of a title for it. more like the 3VZE of Jeeps. But anyways, plenty of torque, lots of HP, easy on the gas, and pretty much bullet proof. my friends all get 20-24, and they are by no means light on the gas. thats also without mileage correction for their oversized tires.
and above all other reasons, if you go Jeep, you'll have to listen to comments like these:
"I drive a Toyota because I do understand."
"I got your Jeep thing, now it hurts when I pee."
06-01-2008, 10:23 PM
#54
HAHAHA wow i cant believe there is someone actually contemplating switching to a jeep. i dont own a jeep, i own a 1994 toyota extra cab pickup with 7 inches and 37 inch iroks, but i do drive a 1995 jeep cherokee XJ quite often that has 8 1/2 inches and can only clear a 33 inch tsl. a 35 is stuffin it and would probably create way more problems than he already has. well this jeep ALWAYS has some kind of problem! we very rarely do any wheeling, but i do manage to do a little more than him. let me start on the laundry list of problems he has had and i have managed to over come and fix. alright when he fisrt lifted it he had rediculous death wobble, the interior is horrible and the door handles ALWAYS fall off, o and both front doors have fell off also, (i had to disassemble the front end to weld them back on) the o handles come off every now and then, he breaks bolts holding all kinds of things on his suspension all of the time (keep in mind this is pretty much a road queen), he has constant death wobble lately, we have tightened EVERYTHING on the suspension and it goes away for maybe a day, right now he has a fricken big hole in the floor that you can fit a softball through, absolutely everything rattles in the interior, his center console top has broken off a few times, the horn keeps breaking, on the back hatch, the support shocks have managed to break off at the welds so i had to weld that back on too. O and the biggest thing is the fourwheel drive does not work, at all. o and also if the truck has to sit up for more than an hour it will not goin in to drive or reverse unless you slam on the gas, then it will violently pop into gear and take off. it absolutely sucks to ride in the pathetic escuse for a back seat and if i was older would be almost impossible to get in and out of the tiny back door!
there are a few other things tat have been wrong with this cherokee but im just tired of listing things. one thing i can say is that he definatelly whips my ass when we race and i have 529 hears in my truck and his are stock. but ihave the 3.slow and he has the i6
there are a few other things tat have been wrong with this cherokee but im just tired of listing things. one thing i can say is that he definatelly whips my ass when we race and i have 529 hears in my truck and his are stock. but ihave the 3.slow and he has the i6
06-02-2008, 10:38 AM
#55
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Sounds like you're at the back side of the "repair curve." Park it for a bit, do some overhaul, I think you'll be happy. "Preventative" should be a word you get used to. I'm currently building a '90 Runner and have started (almost) from scratch. Interior, suspension, drivetrain, intake, exhaust, no gearing or lift needed for my cause. When done, will survive a nuclear holocaust like Reagan's hair and cockroaches....
There's some interesting vibration from under the console too. I hope it doesn't have anything to do with the recently replaced (before I got it a year ago) transmission.
Also, the power steering gearbox is going out. It sounds like a whale...eeeeeeern....weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeernnnn....g rrrrrrrrrrn. It leaks fluid everywhere. Drips on the concrete in fact.
06-02-2008, 10:50 AM
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06-02-2008, 11:00 AM
#57
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Everyone's staring at my saggy rear end! What kind of forum is this????
I'll get updated pics when possible, added 1.5" spacers and air shocks. Can't pull it out of the garage 'til I get the steering/front suspension put back on. Quite a difference! If you like staring at my rear when it was saggy, you'll like my new "firmer" setup...
Qdude
I'll get updated pics when possible, added 1.5" spacers and air shocks. Can't pull it out of the garage 'til I get the steering/front suspension put back on. Quite a difference! If you like staring at my rear when it was saggy, you'll like my new "firmer" setup...
Qdude
06-02-2008, 05:42 PM
#58
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Everyone's staring at my saggy rear end! What kind of forum is this????
I'll get updated pics when possible, added 1.5" spacers and air shocks. Can't pull it out of the garage 'til I get the steering/front suspension put back on. Quite a difference! If you like staring at my rear when it was saggy, you'll like my new "firmer" setup...
Qdude
I'll get updated pics when possible, added 1.5" spacers and air shocks. Can't pull it out of the garage 'til I get the steering/front suspension put back on. Quite a difference! If you like staring at my rear when it was saggy, you'll like my new "firmer" setup...
Qdude
