87 4Runner 22RE troubleshooting help needed
09-08-2010, 10:15 AM
#781
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https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...e-help-159938/
Might take a look at this. It was my brother in laws vehicle.
Might take a look at this. It was my brother in laws vehicle.
09-08-2010, 10:35 AM
#782
Registered User
Hey Mark, I replied in Robert's thread in the build section. Which thread would be most appropriate, though? This'n, or that'n?
09-08-2010, 01:42 PM
#783
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did you throw on pair of jumper cables from the battery to a good known ground on chassi or the engine... its worth a shot at this point man, i would try it just to see if it makes a difference.. i know that ground wire on the intake can play a big part.. i would check to see if the wire isnt broke or pinched.. some where...
09-08-2010, 08:41 PM
#784
I just REALLY have a long way before that. ... MATTHEW(AKA THOOK) on the other hand... now there's a "TECH SOUNDY" guy, lol... (Just made up a thingymadoer of my own! hahaha.)https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...e-help-159938/
Might take a look at this. It was my brother in laws vehicle.
Might take a look at this. It was my brother in laws vehicle.
did you throw on pair of jumper cables from the battery to a good known ground on chassi or the engine... its worth a shot at this point man, i would try it just to see if it makes a difference.. i know that ground wire on the intake can play a big part.. i would check to see if the wire isnt broke or pinched.. some where...
Thanks, guys!
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 09-08-2010 at 08:43 PM.
09-08-2010, 08:46 PM
#785
MY POST on Rob2Techs thread from today's struggles.....
************************************************** **
Update;
Today we first removed the AFM air pipe so that the engine wouldn't be sucking on it... and then when turning it over, still connected by the connector... I can hear the fuel pump JAMMIN away, but it DOES NOT flap like that when it's not getting pulled on by the intake. So, I assume that the issue must be mechanical. Never had one get fuel to the rail, power TO the injectors, injectors clicking when pulled and applied voltage to, .... but not inject fuel through to the hole... so maybe it's normal for the motor to pull on the flap like that under those conditions??????
Then, we went through DOZENS more tests, including the ECU connector/Voltage-testing... It seemed to all check out ok. Also tried to run a noid test, but when cranking, fuel at the rail, they WOULD NOT light the noids...
Eventually, we tore off the plenum to get the injectors out, test them and the connectors... and ........
1. The injector connectors are getting 12.45V with the key on
2. The fuel is HIGH pressure to the rail and gets to all injectors and CSI
3. When turning over, injector connectors hooked up, they WILL NOT fire fuel out the other side.
....I'm not sure if the harness(which WAS in this car and ran at one point.....however terribly) is the right one... it had a set up for an Auto Tranny, the type of connectors(those two) that in this case are stuck together and have more wires than mine did... And besides, Robert said that they WERE NEVER hooked up to anything, ..even when it ran. I pulled the right ones off another harness he had and connected them to the tranny(soldered and heat shrunk up right). One odd thing is that it cranks over without having the clutch in or clutch start cancel button depressed... also, What I don't understand is that, Even though they're using the same injectors and harness, the other mechanic friend of Roberts(and Robert) said, "When we tore this all apart, the injector connectors just fell off(I guess they were taped on or something? I'll have to ask)they wouldn't stay on....so we soldered in new connectors that fit right on the injectors... that's all we've done to the harness".(and like I said, there's power to them, UNTIL you turn over the key...from what I remember)..They also CLICKED away when the other mechanic guy applied voltage to them. There also wasn't a knock sensor... so they got one, and I hooked it up.(odd thing, the connector that is on the thermo temp time switch is the same exact connector as the yellow knock sensor one... same color, everything. I guess it fits just fine, but I'm wondering if they're switched, now that I think about it. Not sure that wouldn't allow the injectors to fire fuel.(????) Might try to switch those wires, Robert... But EVEN THEN... the motor wouldn't fire, even before I got there, and without a knock sensor, without the new Tranny and Reverse Light wires soldered in(check for a reverse light, Robert, ok?)
It seems to me, seeing that it WANTS TO START when you give it starter fluid... it's got spark and compression, no?(Also wouldn't hurt to do a compression test, Robert, ya know? Just to rule out a bent valve like TED and TOD from Engnbldr suggested might be the less likely but worse case scenario........
Speaking of Tod and Ted, ... they both have been helping Robert out and answering as best as possible over the phone... When I said that the AFM flap was doing that, when the air pipe was hooked up, Ted chimed in in the background and said, "Sounds like they got the CAM moved when bolting on the head bolts... maybe a rocker pushed over the cam, just slightly, and it's not working 'true' TDC and CAM notch at 12oclock." THANKS for the input, TED! ...
When I had it on TDC(O), on the crank, the Cam Notch seems to be BARELY forward clockwise... not even a full minute on the clock... but enough that it caught my eye... Not sure it's related to any other issues that might be going on... but Ted thought it might be causing a strange vacuum to pull the AFM door open and shut every revolution.
Anyway, I feel really bad for you, Robert... I know you've been 'THROUGH THE FIRE' on this one... and, well, I'll leave any other personal explanations you want to share to you, yourself. Just know that I FEEL YA! lol... Really wish I could have 'sussed it up' by now... Seems these gremlins are NOT THAT UNCOMMON! lol.
They're taking the injectors in, tomorrow morning, and they'll call me. I REALLY doubt that RC Injectors would send em back without testing them like 6 or so Times... that's what they did with my 'full service' job... GREAT place, and hopefully they'll have some answers as to why it's 'NOT FIRING!' Besides, my motor fired up with 3 injectors, only, working, ...and on two 'clicks' of the starter. SOMETHING is stopping the voltage once the starter turns over.
*** ONE LAST THING ***
When we tested the EFI Relay(the Round one "M4") in the driver kick panel, it tested out with resistance that was just fine..., but it was REALLY HOT to the touch. We've not turned it over excessively, and it seemed to be hot without having turned it over for QUITE a while. Could that be an issue???????? I'm guessing that something is crossed or shorted and/or, something in the IG circuit is blown and causing the M4 Relay to surge/load up with voltage/heat. ?????????????
It seems to be RIGHT THERE, ....but there just isn't any pulsing of the injectors once the key is turning the starter. WTH? LOL.
************************************************** **
Update;
Today we first removed the AFM air pipe so that the engine wouldn't be sucking on it... and then when turning it over, still connected by the connector... I can hear the fuel pump JAMMIN away, but it DOES NOT flap like that when it's not getting pulled on by the intake. So, I assume that the issue must be mechanical. Never had one get fuel to the rail, power TO the injectors, injectors clicking when pulled and applied voltage to, .... but not inject fuel through to the hole... so maybe it's normal for the motor to pull on the flap like that under those conditions??????
Then, we went through DOZENS more tests, including the ECU connector/Voltage-testing... It seemed to all check out ok. Also tried to run a noid test, but when cranking, fuel at the rail, they WOULD NOT light the noids...
Eventually, we tore off the plenum to get the injectors out, test them and the connectors... and ........
1. The injector connectors are getting 12.45V with the key on
2. The fuel is HIGH pressure to the rail and gets to all injectors and CSI
3. When turning over, injector connectors hooked up, they WILL NOT fire fuel out the other side.
....I'm not sure if the harness(which WAS in this car and ran at one point.....however terribly) is the right one... it had a set up for an Auto Tranny, the type of connectors(those two) that in this case are stuck together and have more wires than mine did... And besides, Robert said that they WERE NEVER hooked up to anything, ..even when it ran. I pulled the right ones off another harness he had and connected them to the tranny(soldered and heat shrunk up right). One odd thing is that it cranks over without having the clutch in or clutch start cancel button depressed... also, What I don't understand is that, Even though they're using the same injectors and harness, the other mechanic friend of Roberts(and Robert) said, "When we tore this all apart, the injector connectors just fell off(I guess they were taped on or something? I'll have to ask)they wouldn't stay on....so we soldered in new connectors that fit right on the injectors... that's all we've done to the harness".(and like I said, there's power to them, UNTIL you turn over the key...from what I remember)..They also CLICKED away when the other mechanic guy applied voltage to them. There also wasn't a knock sensor... so they got one, and I hooked it up.(odd thing, the connector that is on the thermo temp time switch is the same exact connector as the yellow knock sensor one... same color, everything. I guess it fits just fine, but I'm wondering if they're switched, now that I think about it. Not sure that wouldn't allow the injectors to fire fuel.(????) Might try to switch those wires, Robert... But EVEN THEN... the motor wouldn't fire, even before I got there, and without a knock sensor, without the new Tranny and Reverse Light wires soldered in(check for a reverse light, Robert, ok?)
It seems to me, seeing that it WANTS TO START when you give it starter fluid... it's got spark and compression, no?(Also wouldn't hurt to do a compression test, Robert, ya know? Just to rule out a bent valve like TED and TOD from Engnbldr suggested might be the less likely but worse case scenario........
Speaking of Tod and Ted, ... they both have been helping Robert out and answering as best as possible over the phone... When I said that the AFM flap was doing that, when the air pipe was hooked up, Ted chimed in in the background and said, "Sounds like they got the CAM moved when bolting on the head bolts... maybe a rocker pushed over the cam, just slightly, and it's not working 'true' TDC and CAM notch at 12oclock." THANKS for the input, TED! ...
When I had it on TDC(O), on the crank, the Cam Notch seems to be BARELY forward clockwise... not even a full minute on the clock... but enough that it caught my eye... Not sure it's related to any other issues that might be going on... but Ted thought it might be causing a strange vacuum to pull the AFM door open and shut every revolution.
Anyway, I feel really bad for you, Robert... I know you've been 'THROUGH THE FIRE' on this one... and, well, I'll leave any other personal explanations you want to share to you, yourself. Just know that I FEEL YA! lol... Really wish I could have 'sussed it up' by now... Seems these gremlins are NOT THAT UNCOMMON! lol.
They're taking the injectors in, tomorrow morning, and they'll call me. I REALLY doubt that RC Injectors would send em back without testing them like 6 or so Times... that's what they did with my 'full service' job... GREAT place, and hopefully they'll have some answers as to why it's 'NOT FIRING!' Besides, my motor fired up with 3 injectors, only, working, ...and on two 'clicks' of the starter. SOMETHING is stopping the voltage once the starter turns over.
*** ONE LAST THING ***
When we tested the EFI Relay(the Round one "M4") in the driver kick panel, it tested out with resistance that was just fine..., but it was REALLY HOT to the touch. We've not turned it over excessively, and it seemed to be hot without having turned it over for QUITE a while. Could that be an issue???????? I'm guessing that something is crossed or shorted and/or, something in the IG circuit is blown and causing the M4 Relay to surge/load up with voltage/heat. ?????????????
It seems to be RIGHT THERE, ....but there just isn't any pulsing of the injectors once the key is turning the starter. WTH? LOL.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 09-08-2010 at 08:48 PM.
09-08-2010, 09:07 PM
#786
PS> Just came in the mail, Yesterday, while working on Rob2Techs Runner.....
I have a great Yotatech Brudda who has become a good friend, as well, who will be helping me, next weekend, with swapping out the TRASH with a New Cam, pictured above^^. LORD WILLING, it will solve my timing(OR AT LEAST MY MYSTERIOUS 'MISS-BUHHHHHBUBUBUBUHHHHHHHHHH' HICCUP ISSUE), and then I can move forward with the rest of the restoration of this truck.
We're going to try to replace the cam without pulling the head. He's done several that way and never had a HG leak. So, by leaving in the hidden bolt under dizzy gear, through the block.... By pulling the plugs and draining ALL coolant from the head and block,......By strapping the head down in the rear with straps to the Tranny, to hold down the rear and keep it from moving as you take the last bolt out...... I SHOULD BE FINE and have no HG leak.
I'm willing to help, further, with Roberts truck,... but at this point, we'll have to FO SHO figure out why the injectors aren't firing, in order to move forward. I'll post more if I hear from him, soon, but for now, if anyone could refer to his thread when commenting, that would be better for the purpose of keeping this thread focused. I just figured it would bring some ideas, AND IT DID, ...thanks! It REALLY feels ''RIGHT THERE'', ya know? My guess at this point would have to be either Dizzy, M4-EFI relay or Solenoid-Injector-Resistor. I can't be sure on the wiring harness, but power IS GETTING to the injectors...and they fire with direct voltage... so it SHOULD be something IGf or Ne related.
Hope to update this soon with A SWEET PURR on my motor, absent the 'CHUNKY-GREMLIN SYNDROME'! lol.
Thanks again,
Mark
I have a great Yotatech Brudda who has become a good friend, as well, who will be helping me, next weekend, with swapping out the TRASH with a New Cam, pictured above^^. LORD WILLING, it will solve my timing(OR AT LEAST MY MYSTERIOUS 'MISS-BUHHHHHBUBUBUBUHHHHHHHHHH' HICCUP ISSUE), and then I can move forward with the rest of the restoration of this truck.
We're going to try to replace the cam without pulling the head. He's done several that way and never had a HG leak. So, by leaving in the hidden bolt under dizzy gear, through the block.... By pulling the plugs and draining ALL coolant from the head and block,......By strapping the head down in the rear with straps to the Tranny, to hold down the rear and keep it from moving as you take the last bolt out...... I SHOULD BE FINE and have no HG leak.
I'm willing to help, further, with Roberts truck,... but at this point, we'll have to FO SHO figure out why the injectors aren't firing, in order to move forward. I'll post more if I hear from him, soon, but for now, if anyone could refer to his thread when commenting, that would be better for the purpose of keeping this thread focused. I just figured it would bring some ideas, AND IT DID, ...thanks! It REALLY feels ''RIGHT THERE'', ya know? My guess at this point would have to be either Dizzy, M4-EFI relay or Solenoid-Injector-Resistor. I can't be sure on the wiring harness, but power IS GETTING to the injectors...and they fire with direct voltage... so it SHOULD be something IGf or Ne related.
Hope to update this soon with A SWEET PURR on my motor, absent the 'CHUNKY-GREMLIN SYNDROME'! lol.
Thanks again,
Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 09-09-2010 at 08:56 AM.
09-10-2010, 08:57 PM
#788
Hey Brotha, ....How are you, Matthew? Well, .... the latest? ...Hmmmm, I guess, on my end, pretty much just the CAM, in the above post, that came in the mail... And I'm waiting for a buddy to return from AZ to help me swap it out. I just don't 'want' to do it, alone, as I've never done one without removing the head. Soooo, I'll just wait till he's able to help... Next Friday, the 17th. Maybe Saturday, depending on how wiped he is from the drive back here.
Rob? Well, he's not called me back.... Far as I know, it didn't get resolved yet. From what I know, he has to be 100% into the shoot he's on, and even a day or so before. I'm curious too, but I guess I'll find out when he's able to make some "other than work related" calls, lol. I doubt it's solved, ... I'm pretty sure he'd call me. I can help some more, ....but I don't think Rob's able to get back over to it till after the weekend. I'm sure he'll update his thread sooner or later.
He gave me a center console end(the part that goes over the shifter and has a lil dish in it on the end? Mine never had that, and I put that in. Looks good. Oh, and my console lid was done, so I'll get pics of the interior, tomorrow, in the daylight. I just don't wanna drive it, AT ALL, until I get that MEAT GRINDER OF A CAM out, lol. Buddy of mine is coming in to town, next week, and he'll be here around a month... I'd sure like to have it done so I can break the cam in on a nice LONG trip through the Sierras and Sequoias! Do some HOT SPRING CIRCUIT ROUTE type trip! lol.
Hope all is well with you, Matthew...
Mark
Rob? Well, he's not called me back.... Far as I know, it didn't get resolved yet. From what I know, he has to be 100% into the shoot he's on, and even a day or so before. I'm curious too, but I guess I'll find out when he's able to make some "other than work related" calls, lol. I doubt it's solved, ... I'm pretty sure he'd call me. I can help some more, ....but I don't think Rob's able to get back over to it till after the weekend. I'm sure he'll update his thread sooner or later.
He gave me a center console end(the part that goes over the shifter and has a lil dish in it on the end? Mine never had that, and I put that in. Looks good. Oh, and my console lid was done, so I'll get pics of the interior, tomorrow, in the daylight. I just don't wanna drive it, AT ALL, until I get that MEAT GRINDER OF A CAM out, lol. Buddy of mine is coming in to town, next week, and he'll be here around a month... I'd sure like to have it done so I can break the cam in on a nice LONG trip through the Sierras and Sequoias! Do some HOT SPRING CIRCUIT ROUTE type trip! lol.
Hope all is well with you, Matthew...
Mark
09-11-2010, 08:08 AM
#791
Been doing a bit of reading, and now I'm really praying that a few of my brand new rockers weren't damaged(to the point of needing to be pulled...(40$ each for OEM.... which Ted and Tod ONLY recommend using!) by the CAM'n'stien! lol. HOWEVER, my buddy who's coming back from AZ and helping me swap them out, next week? He's got GAGGLES of Rockers and they're all nice, if I need to yoink a few and replace them...(Very grateful, Andy! YOU ROCK! lol.... Oh, and don't worry, I'll have that "Kick Arse Coffee and Windmills" ret'to'go! hahaha.)... Yeah, I get people addicted to the stuff I make, quickly.... I SWEAR, MY MOTIVES ARE GOOD! HAHAHAH. No, but really, I appreciate your help, Andy.... BIG TIME! Matthew, as well, ....many hours(half of which were shooting the scat, ..but, also...) MANY of which helped me IMMENSELY with my P.O.E.!... Thanks!)
I can't wait to get this into the 'SOLVED' section, updating my Sig Links, etc.!
I can't wait to get this into the 'SOLVED' section, updating my Sig Links, etc.!
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 09-11-2010 at 08:09 AM.
09-11-2010, 03:27 PM
#792
Registered User
09-16-2010, 04:13 PM
#794
Ok, ......the build thread will be updated as well, but since I'd bet more people have found troubleshooting ideas and GREAT input from people on this thread.... I'll be posting the "CAM SWAP" and results, here. I will post plenty of pics, possibly some video and methods for swapping the cam without removing the head. I will also post video of the break in and street testing, afterward.
I hope it's helpful, and just to update;
Sunday, Sept. 19th, GOD WILLING AND THE DAM DON'T BREAK, ...I will be swapping out my original cam(PIECE OF TRASH) with an Engine Builder 261 CAM, without removing the head. I'm sure it will take much of the day, including the break in, etc.
Thanks for all your support, guys, and wish me well.... I know there's a SLIGHT chance the HG could leak... but I'm going to be strapping the rear of the head(both corners) downward to the bell housing bolts, slightly to the left and right of each corner. By doing this and leaving in the infamous 'hidden bolt' under the dizzy, I should be able to do so without compromising the Head Gasket in any way.
Stay tuned, lol,
Mark
I hope it's helpful, and just to update;
Sunday, Sept. 19th, GOD WILLING AND THE DAM DON'T BREAK, ...I will be swapping out my original cam(PIECE OF TRASH) with an Engine Builder 261 CAM, without removing the head. I'm sure it will take much of the day, including the break in, etc.
Thanks for all your support, guys, and wish me well.... I know there's a SLIGHT chance the HG could leak... but I'm going to be strapping the rear of the head(both corners) downward to the bell housing bolts, slightly to the left and right of each corner. By doing this and leaving in the infamous 'hidden bolt' under the dizzy, I should be able to do so without compromising the Head Gasket in any way.
Stay tuned, lol,
Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 09-16-2010 at 04:20 PM.
09-16-2010, 04:19 PM
#795
PS> Since I have to drain the coolant amongst some other preparation, I had a question, unrelated, regarding.........
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO CLEAN OUT MY HEATER CORE??? >>>
My heater hardly works, and while the blower motor is fine, the heater barely gets warm when fully set to 'HOT'! lol. I've heard many different ideas, and I'll WAIT, of course, until after i get the Head Bolts back down snug.... but I wondered, is that most likely why it's not blowing hot? I've heard "NO, if it's clogged it will usually blow WAY HOTTER, too hot even!" .... and yet, I would imagine that if, in fact, the hoses on both sides coming out of it are clogged, ..... wouldn't it limit the amount of HOT COOLANT that's allowed to run through it? Sorry if these are MORONIC questions, hahaha... I just don't really understand that thingymadoer just yet....
Any help?
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO CLEAN OUT MY HEATER CORE??? >>>
My heater hardly works, and while the blower motor is fine, the heater barely gets warm when fully set to 'HOT'! lol. I've heard many different ideas, and I'll WAIT, of course, until after i get the Head Bolts back down snug.... but I wondered, is that most likely why it's not blowing hot? I've heard "NO, if it's clogged it will usually blow WAY HOTTER, too hot even!" .... and yet, I would imagine that if, in fact, the hoses on both sides coming out of it are clogged, ..... wouldn't it limit the amount of HOT COOLANT that's allowed to run through it? Sorry if these are MORONIC questions, hahaha... I just don't really understand that thingymadoer just yet....
Any help?
09-16-2010, 05:42 PM
#796
Registered User
I don't know about that idea, Chef. Seems to me if a heater core was congested/clogged/whatever with lots of deposit, then it wouldn't be able to transfer heat as well. It's just a small radiator. With your engine radiator, if it was clogged, same thing. Less heat transference. So, the engine overheats. Maybe even think of it this way; with a hot water heater, if the elements build up with calcium, it takes a lot longer to heat the water. Why? Because the heat doesn't transfer as well through the water. Then, the element eventually burns out.
There's a product you get buy at RV supply stores that's used for water purification called chlorine dioxide. Pretty sure that's the name. I'll verify that with my wife. But, we use it to remove calcium/iron scale from our faucets since our well water is so hard. Works better than anything I've ever seen.......bar none! I'll be using it to clean my heater core before winter. The idea is to drain my coolant, pull the in and out heater hoses, cork off the outlet, fill the heater core with a funnel and chlorine dioxide, let it soak for however long, then flush it all out with a garden hose and finally distilled water. I think I may have mentioned this to you over the phone at one time not long ago. Anyway, I'll get clear on what it's called and post back about it.
There's a product you get buy at RV supply stores that's used for water purification called chlorine dioxide. Pretty sure that's the name. I'll verify that with my wife. But, we use it to remove calcium/iron scale from our faucets since our well water is so hard. Works better than anything I've ever seen.......bar none! I'll be using it to clean my heater core before winter. The idea is to drain my coolant, pull the in and out heater hoses, cork off the outlet, fill the heater core with a funnel and chlorine dioxide, let it soak for however long, then flush it all out with a garden hose and finally distilled water. I think I may have mentioned this to you over the phone at one time not long ago. Anyway, I'll get clear on what it's called and post back about it.
09-16-2010, 05:56 PM
#797
WOOT, WOOT! That's what I'm talking bout! Gotta love that service, man! hahaha. Thanks alot... I'll be dropping by and picking some up as soon as you let me know.
Have a great night, Matthew,
Mark
PS> If Luke and John are watching, ......SUP? hahahahaha. Jk, sorry, ..corny...silly, etc., etc..... lol.
Have a great night, Matthew,
Mark
PS> If Luke and John are watching, ......SUP? hahahahaha. Jk, sorry, ..corny...silly, etc., etc..... lol.
[/IMG]
09-17-2010, 05:36 AM
#800
Registered User
You can also try the garden hose and flush it backwards. That might help as well. Just don't put too much pressure on it I have know folks to blow out the core trying to flush them.
