ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

PS> For now, I think it would be wise to just PARK THE BEAST! So, that's just what I'll do! Granting I'll get help in the next couple days... I'll be done, QUICK!

Ted AND TOD, guys......... WOW, I gotta say, seriously, they're not only two of the most knowledgeable guys around, but they're also VERY kind, patient and SUPER helpful, ....whether or not they're going to get any cabbage out of it! NO question, however.... anything I NEED, or decide to get, ...I WILL be getting it through them, from now on!

1990yota-pickup

i just dont get it you can get the entire rebuild kit from any parts store under 400 bucks and it come with a brand new cam and pistons and gaskets and stuff... Chef, how did you get robbed...

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Well, I called him and said, "HI, I'm a dork.... I have no clue where the oil goes and I think it takes water, but I can't be sure... by the way, I want only HALF of the stuff it calls for... can I get a discount that way? " Just kiddin.... Actually, 90, Yeah... I can't tell ya how disappointed I am. My brother in laws yard mechanic(very good mechanic of 28 years) REALLY HIGHLY recommended him... So I figured, "great, SO MANY horror stories, and I finally found a guy who I know used one, personally"... He said he sent him stuff for 20 years, never had a problem but the normal freak things, once or twice out of hundreds! ... I told him about it, today, and he was basically "Oh, thanks for letting me know"... EH? I made it clear that I wasn't trying to toss anything back his way... He couldn't have known since he'd not used him in years... but not even a 'THAT SUCKS, I'm sorry man'... Whatever, .... honestly? I'M DOING EVERYTHING myself, from now on(aside from honing a block or machining a head, lol)... and even that I will CAREFULLY inspect. TOO MUCH headache over things that aren't just "Oh, I'll just unscrew this, replace the doohickie and VOILA, done in 45 minutes!"

HOWEVER< .... it doesn't really matter at this point, eh? As Ted said, i will be dropping that thing on his desk, as soon as I get it out, and saying "THANKS!" ... Maybe have a talk with him and just let him know, "Hey, I'm no engineer, ...I know you're night and day from me, but EVEN I can see this was really a bad choice... and I DID try every guru in the area, until I found one that felt so bad for me, he did 300$ worth of tests, FREE... only to tell me, '.. it's the CAM, dude... I'm sure of it!' " ......I'm DONE with him, period... can't even think about trying to haggle with him over this or that. Because, well, think about it... what excuse could there possibly be?

Btw, it WAS an engine kit... but you can opt out of certain things. That kit didn't come with the cam, automatically, because it's sold separately(just like Ted and Tod's heads are). So, the one thing I DID learn, for sure, ...."IF YOU FEEL something couldn't possibly hurt, and it makes sense, ...like making sure that EVERY POSSIBLE part is new... DON'T let someone talk you out of it!" I'm not a mechanic, but I've truly learned a lot, and I've always done my own brakes, fluids and lubing, bearings, building of big blocks and small block chevy's and fords..... Did a timing belt or 5 on my and some friends Cressida and Supras... but I would NEVER agree to do something like that, let alone talk someone into it, ya know?

Whatever, as I said.... NOT trying to whine... It is what it is, I'm just disappointed. Tell you what, though... IT WILL NEVER happen again, not on one SINGLE aspect of a 22re! lol.

yotarob2005

Mark, I am so sorry about all of this. What a terrible thing to have to diagnose. I know that it is not just the extra cabbage to buy a new cam that you have lost out of all this, it is the time & aggravation of the whole scenario, but I tell you what you have hung in there like a champion prize fighter & I am very proud of you. I know that I MIGHT have thrown in the towel. I can't wait to see the smile on your face once you get that new cam installed. I wish there was something I could do for you, but only one thing I can think of....PM me that machinist name & number, maybe even e-mail address & I will make sure he regrets what he did.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

HAHAHA! Welllllllll, thanks man! It's a bit frustrating, but it's FAR MORE 'disappointing'... NOT so much that I have to do all this extra work(while that is part of it, lol)... rather, because people do business like this! I just don't understand it. I should say that 'MAYBE' just maybe he entrusted someone to do it and blah blah blah.... but really, that's just my nature, to believe the best in people... Because when I'm really honest, I could NOT trust something like that to someone, especially if I'd built an ENTIRE engine for someone, without even inspecting it? Heck, I'd ask to look at the cam and throw it on a dial before I even let them put it in. He'd be better off just letting someone ship him brand new heads like Ted's! Seriously.

Like I said... 'THANKS' That means a lot, Rob, .. I know you've had your share of obstacles, etc.,...but you always have a good attitude. I have to be honest.... all along this journey, this is THE MOST ticked off I've been, period! When I MAKE a mistake, ...honestly, I LAUGH, more than once, and off and on as I tell people about it. This just seems more like a "Ahhhhh, whatever!" kinda job from a guy whom I'd entrusted with something MAJOR! Ya know? I guess I SHOULD Just call him, either way, immediately. The thing is, ....when I had to call him before? ..he was NOT very easy to deal with. He just doesn't seem to wanna hear anything from me, ya know? So I guess I'll give him a call in the morning, see what he says, ... why not, eh?

yotarob2005

I guess you really should get the new cam in before I blame the machinist, but I feel pretty confident that you have your problem. You have spent the last 3 months being consumed by a gremlin that should have been squashed long ago. Like I said WHAT A TERRIBLE THING TO DIAGNOSE !?!?! In a case like this you automatically suspect the usual things & assume that the major things are all done right......that is why you paid to have that part done right?? By a professional!! I am a machinist. Have been for the last 14 years, since I was first of working age. Worked at the SAME shop since I was 16. It is the only job I have ever had. I don't work on engines or anything, but I know attention to detail and NOTHING leaves my shop if it isn't right.

I can tell you this Mark....If I need any help diagnosing a problem with a 22re, I know just who to ask. You are quite a character.

thook

Hey Mark, I haven't been around a whole lot, I know. This little music project I've been involved in is gaining momentum. IOW's we've compiled recordings of our Monday night sessions and are going to mix all down for a CD to market locally. I don't know......a lot of ideas we're tossing around about what we'd like to do, but, basically this just means I've been "involved"....haha.

Anyway, were I you, I think I continue to follow Todd and Ted's advise and put in a stock cam, for now. Reason being with valves and the cam being so interrelated, I think it would be wise to rule out there's no problem with valves. If understand correctly, that hasn't exactly been ruled out, right? Keep the variables down to a mininum until you're sure of what's going on. That way when you begin to "rebuild" (once again), you know what you're building on.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

That, Matthew, makes PERFECT sense! lol... I agree, ... I think I will do just that, ...and I digress, .."YES", ....it's true that the valves are not TOTALLY in the clear. I wish I had a big shop do this, ya know? ... I mean, I could EASILY say, "LOOK at this, man.... I want that cam out, new one, NO LABOR!" .... But alas, I was trying to save money and time.... GO FIGURE, EH? hahahaha.

Yeah, I'm trying to load the pics of this donor cam, right now. Ted said, either way, I'll want to replace the followers on the really bad lobes.. so It looks like I'll be in to another 100$ on those, unless most of them are ok. I think he said I can have them "Refaced"... But why bother, eh? They're 30$ new at Toyota... He said, "Bite the bullet on that one, trust me,....that's why we don't sell them or rocker assembly's... TOO MANY aftermarket nightmares! Stock Cam?... should last LONGER THAN ANY HUMAN! lol" So, obviously something happened to this one, LONG before I ever thought of building it. Maybe 3-4 years, ya know? (that lil Puuuuuuu pup pup puuuuuuuuuuu)... and it's gotten progressively worse since it was attempted to be machined, or whatever he did, lol.

Far as the cam, Ted said, "Nah, you're fine to put the 261 right in and run it at high idle with known good rockers to break it in and then head on down the road with it... it's NOT THAT aggressive. It's also plug and play!".... So, I guess it's a bit of differing of opinions with them, ...but that's normal in any field and it's fine... I've got no problem going with a stock cam for the next YEAR, at least, to get this nightmarish gremlin behind me! lol. Once whatever it is goes in...IT'S IN, Matthew, ... I'm not up for that, for mainly the reason of 'TIME'.. I've pushed this to the limit where I live, ya know? lol... Enough is enough, lol. However, if it's the head, ...HE IS paying for it and giving me one that is verified by ANOTHER Shop! NO WAY this should have happened, honest man... I did EXACTLY what my instructions were, and well, all you have to do is look at it and you know, that's not anything I could have done in 600 miles, ya know? lol. I'm very anxious to see what he says, tomorrow.

I'M VERY excited for you, Matthew... VERY cool. AND, ...eh chemmmmmmmm, you know my address, don't you? hahaha. Seriously, I want a disc man!

ROB, I hear ya man! Thanks for adding that... I know 'things happen', ya know?... but this is clearly COSTLY carelessness, ya know?

Have a good night, guys... i'm finally getting to bed before MIDNIGHT! hahaha.

92 TOY

hey Chef just gonna chime in again.

the sentiment expressed here by Rob and Thook is the same as me. you hung in there waaaaaaaay longer than i would have. you want a perfectly running engine, whereas i certainly would have been like, meh, it's new and runs great except for this little miss and such. as i've said elsewhere and maybe here. when i did my engine, i was like, that was fun, hope i never have to do it again. but you!...YOU have learned sooooooo much and likewise have taught soooooo much through the trouble shooting / diagnostics well documented here.... as well as the multiple, multiple excellent postings in here by other members.

again, this thread right here is a "how to" of diagnostics. excellent , informative and well versed. your postings, the ones by Thook as well as many others (forgive me guys for not citing everyone) made me realize just how much there is i do not know. but just like anything, the information and resources are out there.

LUMPY has the 261 i believe. BLEEDER...not so sure, maybe he had the 268???(is there such a thing)....me....i'm stock. i know i've got no ooomph, never did, never will....but i'm satisfied with it. your's however is a veritable monster with it's shiney everything and header and all and would probably do just fine with stock or 261.

once again Chef....chin up....you are closer to the end than you are the beginning. you have proven to be a fine example of stick-to-it-iveness.

as far as your machinist / builder goes.....maybe you've got some sorta legitimate claim against him.....was there a warranty? or was it just a parts and labor kinda thing? i would probably give him a piece of my mind, but i doubt he will lose sleep over it. contacting the better business bureau might not be a bad idea too, especially if he is deceptive and shoddy and does not stand behind his work.

the plus / minus of this whole thing is that although the minus has stayed with you for quite some time now and has cost you brain cells, probably several layers of skin, money and time, the plus side of this is that your knowledge base has increased vastly and you apparently have formed several new friendships throughout this, myself included, and have elevated yourself to diagnostics guru in my book.

thanks Mark.

PS.....not saying that i wouldn't throw the cam on his front porch....but i know i shouldn't.....ehehehhe

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hahahaha! That last part is hilarious... I actually had one of those, well, you know, when you were back in elementary or something like that, and, the 'MEAN KID' started bullying or maybe someone embarrassed you?.... You start to daydream about punching them in the mug or something like that?(sometimes I'd even jar myself out of the daydream by flinching, because my punching or fighting back was so real! haha) Anyway, I know I'm not crazy cuz many have told me they can relate to that.... The kind of 'playing things out in your head' thing... Wellllll, I actually had that happen, last night, while vegetating on 'what exactly should I do here?'.... and one scenario was walking in to the office, slapping that on the desk, and saying, "Hey, I wondered if you needed a pull up bar or something, eh? Careful though, it's cracking and peeling back like my uncles bad comb-over... don't wanna have it snap while you're doing chin-ups!" HAHAHAHA..... Ok, well it was funny to me, lol. However, I don't think being a pissy customer is the answer. Even though I've heard MANY negative things about them(only, of course, after having him build my engine! hahaha), ...even though he was NEVER easy to deal with,.... I don't want to read too much into this. I'll lay it on his plate and see what he says, eh? We'll see.........

Yep, Jer' it's always worth it, and every negative situation or happenstance ALWAYS winds up for the good, if I keep my eyes open for/and focus on/ just that! I've met TONS of cool people, including yourself, Andy!, Thook!, Xxxtreme, Kiyo, Bleeder, 4crawler, Lives4crawlin, Seanmearse, Rob2Tech, 90, 81(soon to be 854runner-something?lol), 85gijunk, yotarob, Mtngoat, Pismo-joe, myyota,...... and the list goes on for a full page! VERY much, in that aspect alone, well worth it! OF COURSE, I'd rather have been meeting everyone under different circumstances, you know, like 'actually building new PARTS' on her! hahaha. BUT, that's not what was in the cards, eh? lol. I've also learned quite a bit, indeed, Jerry! Still, by no means am I a GURU of any sort, lol... I'm still trying to catalog much of it in my brain 'FOR GOOD', ya know what I mean? It comes back when I go over stuff long enough... but DANG it's a lot to remember, hahaha. But yes, that's been pretty interesting, even to me, that I've been able to help a couple people in ways I'd not have IMAGINED a couple months ago! lol.... Very funny and very cool!
************************************************** ********

Anywayyyyyyyyy, .... I think I'll give Tod one more call and see if he agrees with his dad, that "You can just plug and play the 261... it WILL help performance and you will not have to worry, ...just make sure your followers, etc., are all good, or replace the ones that aren't.... and you're good to go!" I explained to Ted, as I will to you guys... I JUST CAN'T afford to put a 600$ head plus this or that and this and that, that I might need along the way, if I don't have to. I have other things I'd rather do with that money over the next year or so. INCLUDING A NICE TOUR OF CALI. ONCE I GET HER SNUGGED UP! I can pop a Street RV w/261 head in, after around a year or so... NO problem to afford it then.

I spoke to my brother in laws buddy, this morning, first... He really is a great fleet style mechanic, and he said, "I know Ted and Tod, ...not personally, but I've used them. They're good guys. Just do this once, Mark.... Don't put one in and then another.....the Followers aren't gonna like that. Just put in the 261, you'll be FINE with that, and it WILL give you more guts on the hill, whether or not you have their 'beefy-head', ya know?" ......... As I said above, "If several specialists have told you it's ok, and you REALLY don't see a negative with something you're planning... DO IT!"... So, I'm going to call Tod and double check with him, like I said, and then go from there. I see no reason I can't plug and play their head, too, later on, to match with the 261 after a year or so, right? Might have to pull some rockers again, etc., but at that point, WHO CARES... the head will be coming off, ya know? hahaha.

THANKS, GUYS, so much, for giving me some perseverance "PEP TALKIN"! lol... I'd not have given up, no way... but it DOES get a bit flustering, at times. So much info from so many different people.... Gotta just measure all the pros and cons,....then go WIDIT! HAHAHA.

I'll let you know what Tod says, etc. Hope I'm representing them in a way that they'd not find 'off', ya know? lol. I doubt it, and I REALLYYYYYYYYYY respect them both, as well as having TONS of gratitude for their help! So hopefully, no flying lathe parts will be slung at my head, ...right guys? hahah.

L8r t8rs,

Mark

92 TOY

good reply Mark.

buy the 261 and offer to see the one with only 600 miles back to the jackhole and see what he says. of course, don't really sell it, because you wouldn't want that ending up in some other 22re.

thook

If you want a disc, I'll certainly send you one, Mark! But, I think we may try and get some recordings up on Youtube, first. Kinda test the waters before we make a lot of effort to put something together for marketing. What we do is a jazz/afro cuban percussion ensemble. NONE of what we do is rehearsed. It's all improvised. We all know some basic techniques and rhythms from all three of us having played drums for so long, but when we get together we have know no idea what we're going to do, where it's gonna go, and how it's gonna turn out. So, it's all intuitive following each other through our impulses and moods. So, it's turning out to be pretty unique. Over all, though, we're just having fun jamming and being creative. Being a lover of music and a musician, I love what we're doing and think it's incredible. And, more than making money, doing shows, and all the typical music world stuff, it'd be cool if we just made enough to support our "habit" (where's the needle?!!!!......<<<<aahhhhhhh!!!>>>) and share the magic we find in it all. If nobody else in the whole world even liked it AT ALL, we wouldn't care. We'd just continue to do what we're doing. We all love listening back over what was recorded and are always surprised. "That was us???!!!".....lol! Once we're in the groove and playing, we have no idea how it's sounding outside of that. We're just grooving on the feeling......riding a wave. That's what it's about......for us.

Anyway, thanks for the interest, Mark. Now.........if anyone here knows how to get something like this on Youtube, I'd really appreciate the help. I started a thread in the OT forum, but either no one knows how or just don't want to help. Meh....

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

UPDATE!;

A 261 CAM IS IN THE MAIL, ALREADY! >>>>>>

After speaking with Tod, over 2 hours, on the phone, prior to today... I then spoke to TED, his father, around 5 times, in email correspondence... WHAT A GREAT couple of guys! Needless to say, I APPRECIATE THEM BOTH AND THEIR TIME!

On to the point; Tod, today, for the first time, saw the pictures of my CAM, Valve shots, etc..... First thing from his mouth was, "Oooooooooh, ....can't even see how someone would re-use that! Looks like he just ground it where it was... but with that kind of pitting, missing chunks.... Mark, your followers of the rockers TRAVEL ON that edge, until it's all 'worn together' and it glides along the whole surface of the follower.... With those risen edges, missing pieces and even what appears to be BUMPS, it's no wonder you're having issues! I'm not saying it's not a valve, still.... i hope not, but you wont know until you get a cam in there. However, that thing most CERTAINLY, ...is TRASH!" (Sorry for ad-libbing, Tod, hahaha. I hopefully Got it pretty much right on, and HOPEFULLY, if you have time, you will sign in and leave a comment to clarify any of my moronic ''repeating of what I remember as 'YOU SAID' ", hahaha.

He basically said the same thing as his Dad, Ted, once he saw what the thing looked like. He also agreed that I could just go right to the 261, no problems. .... "Any other problems you have, IF the head has issues other than the cam and possibly worn too much followers, ...well, you'll have to tear off the head, anyhow,to get it right. It wont hurt to have this cam in, and like I said, now that I've SEEN this cam... GEEESH, ..yeah, you can't go wrong just slapping the 261 in there. In other words, it's not going to make anything worse. Just follow the instructions to the tee, and you should be golden. IF Not, and it IS a valve... we'll go from there".

So, there you have it... I WAS RIGHT, my builder WAS WRONG to put that back in. I spoke again to the guy who referred him and reassured him that I wasn't mad or trying to toss this in his lap,..... and I even pressed him for some info like the 'ok to just drop the 261 in there?'... As I said in my last comment. He was very helpful and actually relieved that I called back. I DON'T WANT any hard feelings going where they don't belong. My machinist was out, but I left a message with his brother. HE said, "WOW, you're kidding?".... I paused for about 30 seconds.... before I could expound, he said, "I guess you're not", hahaha. I'll speak to him and let you know what he says. Either way, at this point?..... as long as it runs better with the new cam, and that fixes it... I'M DONE with that company. I apologize for not mentioning them, by name,...it's just not 'the kind of drama' I want to start on here.... Kind of like when I see people REALLY degrading Tim at DOA... I wont elaborate on that... don't know him well enough and don't want to start a tangent on here... Just saying, as an example, because I KNOW that mistakes happen and I would rather just treat my 'incident' as an individual event, for now. Make sense?

I'm pretty much there on having the 'rockers off'.... and I'll be having them inspected, possibly polished/or replaced, and then SLAP IN THE 261 AND PRAY! lol.

Wish me well, Guys! This has been INSANE! lol..... but LOTS OF FUN, and I wouldn't change a thing... Because otherwise, I'd not have made so many great friends on here!

Mark

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

MATTHEW, MY BRUDDA FROM ANUDDA MUDDA! LOL. How are you, man? Sounds EXCITING! I hope your path with the music is VERY FULL in regards to the 'good fruits' basket! lol. I bet it's great, and I LOVE the improv type stuff. I have lots of that from various famous artists, actually. I have one from Benfold5, who I think are very talented. Sure, they're a bit strange and full of innuendo, ...but that just makes it more entertaining! hahaha.

Anyway, ..... I will be putting up a couple songs for ya on youtube, from the Mali to Memphis thing.... i think you'll REALLY like it. Could be wrong, we'll see, hahaha.

Far as this thread goes, Matthew....HONESTLY, THANK YOU, SO MUCH! I would have been chasing my tail even further, were it not for you and a few others. But YOU, buddy, have giving me much of your free time, and for that?...I'M GRATEFUL! I've learned a LOT from you, honestly! Maybe on this turn of the journey, I'll actually teach you something, eh? hahahaha.

Best wishes on the music, Matthew... I know, ANY way it goes on the 'production' end, it will bring good things!

Mark

92 TOY

wow.

wowee.

good job bud.

matthew.....i have no clue about the youtube thing.......all of our postings have been via cellphone video or video recorded with my son's digital camera set to video mode. i would love to post the videos from the hard drive of my video camera, but i'm an ignoramous with the attention span of a hyperactive gnat.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Matthew, until I figure out how to post my music where I can share it, here's the link to the CD I was talking about. I'll DEFINITELY burn you a copy and send it ova! lol....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=

thook

Oh yeah.......Putemayo! I have a bunch of those CD's in copy. Where I work, we used to sell the collection. I garnered a lot of inspiration from listening to many of them. The first World Music is still one of my favorites. So, yeah.....burn me a copy!

And, btw, I had to get the rear shock mount relocated where the repair was made to my frame. The fellow that did the work had it up a bit too high and too far back, so I couldn't get the shock to reach. Got it all fixed and now the ride is smoother, again. But, I also got his opinion on my rear diff. Just as I thought.....I'll be yanking it and replacing the pinion bearings before winter. Woohoo! This'll be a first, for me.

92 TOY

OK bud....i'm here.

yes....there is a bolt that you have to smear RTV on when installing the oil pump to the timing cover. the bolt protrudes ever so little (i mean like a millimeter)....and the RTV seals the deal. why they have this bolt in this configuration, no clue, made no sense at that time. using the wrong size bolt will cause clearance issues with the chain (i believe) and not the tensioner.

as far as any other questions about the cover......bolts are specific....i used a pizza box template....nothing technical about it....was basically a silhouette with corresponding holes....no bolt sizes or anything (4crawler has that).

timing cover.....no need for RTV....i did however use a smear of it to hold my gaskets steady while i put the cover on...that's it.

lots of pics on thread (B) in my sig.

hit me up if you need anything else......just got home from the store and gonna probably squeeze in some time in the pool since his seems to be the last day of summer....94 today, 84 tomorrow, 70 on saturday and on and on.

if you need, i can PM my cellphone# to ya

thook

Wow! PA summers drop off quick! We usually go mildly on into autumn. Gives me enough time to get my shiznit together and have a couple cords of firewood.......since I've been slacking all summer!

Hey Mark.......got your message, but looks like Jerry got you covered.

yotarob2005

So when is the new cam supposed to be delivered Mark?