87 4Runner 22RE troubleshooting help needed
08-30-2010, 08:02 AM
#722
Hey 90, Rob, THANKS FOR DROPPING NUGGETS, MAN!
Yeah, I'm fairly sure the entire head components list is 'new', other than the CAM. I believe you can see in the first pic, even the Cam-Bearing Journal Keepers are new. WHY IN THE HECK he didn't see anything even a 'lil off' with this CAM? I just don't know. I'm not a machinist... and he is one of the best HYPO/JAP/DOMESTIC Block builders around.... He's done racing engines for 30 YEARS, and he USED to do the heads, himself, from what I've been told.... NOW? Guess he doesn't.
Like I said, Andy couldn't 'SEE', really, ANYTHING that would scream 'Valve'... but again, you can't really be CERTAIN until you tear into it or run it on really unique scopes, etc., etc., ...whatever they do, I don't have it, hahaha. Heads are 'touchy'... and obviously, they need to be SPOT ON,..... The 'HEAD COMPONENTS', other than the CAM, look pretty nice, even after several hundred miles... No pile up of shavings or metal dust that we could see.... No major scoring we could see on any of the valve stems(as I said, what we could see, as turning the crank by hand)... but WHAT WE DID see, obviously, was the CAM wearing/pitting/chipping.... I mean, it's 260K miles on this CAM... not TOTALLY ridiculous to suggest that it's warped or worn out beyond tolerance, etc., eh? Even if he did do a grind, IT WAS ON THIS CAM, YA KNOW? LOL. I've seen 150k mile Cam's that looked better than this! Am I wrong?
I think the fact that, while advanced to 14, 20, or, even as the Mechanic who did the propane test noted(50* BTDC-- 45* + base 5-8*/....remember, it's bouncing, too),...that it's RUNNING BETTER? With NO PINGING, no popping while coming down hard hills in 2nd at 3800 rpm.... nothing? ..... That's strange, guys, no? It could be also related to the Dizzy, regardless of the "HAPPY #" from the Pick up(160 Ohms with a recom. spec of 140-180),as pertaining to the 'timing jumping around'... But a BAD CAM could do that, as well, no? I mean, if the bearings in there are sticking up a lil, but it just hasn't developed any play yet, etc.???? I think that Dizzy portion of this could be involved with the timing being able to advance to up to 50* BTDC in order to get the AIR/FUEL just right.... eh?????
Anyway, with NO valve noise, and I MEAN NONE, at any range of the timing... that HAS TO BE telling of something, guys. I've also got NO SMOKE, NO REALLY STANK SMELL, and as a matter of fact, ...when advanced even 9* further, it smells even better at the pipe. Even the oil looks ok.
I think at this point, seeing as I don't have to pull the head to do a cam, ...I'll be swapping that pitted, scored, CHUNKS MISSING CAM out with a nice CRANE with a 1500-4800 Duration... Kragen actually gets them in for ya for around 115$
I'd prefer an Engnbldr CAM, most likely, so we'll see if my 'installation helper' can wait, ...and I'd probably go that route.
I've also got an 'IN' on some either 4.56 or 4.88 gears, from a racing shop that will trade straight up for my 4.10's ..... Sound good?
I've also, for now, removed the K&N kit. NO WAY IN HELL that thing isn't making things hotter in there. It's recycling HOT AS HELL breaking in engine heat, and the Powdercoated pipe to the plenum is so hot you can barely touch it. Drove around 30 minutes, last night, and noticed the stock set up was FAR cooler, not only on the stock plastic pipe. The AFM itself, with the LCE kit, was so hot that, you could barely hold your hand on it... NOW? >> NOT EVEN HALF as hot. That's got to effect the Ambient Temp reading, which would lean it out, no? Although, while it would seem to lean it out, it seems to be sucking air, SOOOOOO LOUDLY, you can barely hear the exhaust with your head tucked by the driver-front wheel! lol. The sound is GREAT, and I'm NOT KNOCKING IT!(the K&N)... I think with it moved to the other side, as well as an adjustment on the idle/intake air needle... maybe it's less likely to get as hot. Even with a BOX, which I would have to make, pulling air from the original or alternate route from the front... I would think that pulling even 90* air in as opposed to 220* or so?... has to be better, ..NO?
HELP, GUYS, LET'S GET THIS DONE! HAHAHAHA. Just want some more input on the appearance of the CAM, etc. Anyone see that kind of wear pattern, etc.? I know with the new lifters, it's going to leave some markings on the cam,....but they don't seem very even and the CHIPS AND PITS AND MISSING PIECES?????? I"m really interested in some input... Thanks,
Mark
Yeah, I'm fairly sure the entire head components list is 'new', other than the CAM. I believe you can see in the first pic, even the Cam-Bearing Journal Keepers are new. WHY IN THE HECK he didn't see anything even a 'lil off' with this CAM? I just don't know. I'm not a machinist... and he is one of the best HYPO/JAP/DOMESTIC Block builders around.... He's done racing engines for 30 YEARS, and he USED to do the heads, himself, from what I've been told.... NOW? Guess he doesn't.
Like I said, Andy couldn't 'SEE', really, ANYTHING that would scream 'Valve'... but again, you can't really be CERTAIN until you tear into it or run it on really unique scopes, etc., etc., ...whatever they do, I don't have it, hahaha. Heads are 'touchy'... and obviously, they need to be SPOT ON,..... The 'HEAD COMPONENTS', other than the CAM, look pretty nice, even after several hundred miles... No pile up of shavings or metal dust that we could see.... No major scoring we could see on any of the valve stems(as I said, what we could see, as turning the crank by hand)... but WHAT WE DID see, obviously, was the CAM wearing/pitting/chipping.... I mean, it's 260K miles on this CAM... not TOTALLY ridiculous to suggest that it's warped or worn out beyond tolerance, etc., eh? Even if he did do a grind, IT WAS ON THIS CAM, YA KNOW? LOL. I've seen 150k mile Cam's that looked better than this! Am I wrong?
I think the fact that, while advanced to 14, 20, or, even as the Mechanic who did the propane test noted(50* BTDC-- 45* + base 5-8*/....remember, it's bouncing, too),...that it's RUNNING BETTER? With NO PINGING, no popping while coming down hard hills in 2nd at 3800 rpm.... nothing? ..... That's strange, guys, no? It could be also related to the Dizzy, regardless of the "HAPPY #" from the Pick up(160 Ohms with a recom. spec of 140-180),as pertaining to the 'timing jumping around'... But a BAD CAM could do that, as well, no? I mean, if the bearings in there are sticking up a lil, but it just hasn't developed any play yet, etc.???? I think that Dizzy portion of this could be involved with the timing being able to advance to up to 50* BTDC in order to get the AIR/FUEL just right.... eh?????
Anyway, with NO valve noise, and I MEAN NONE, at any range of the timing... that HAS TO BE telling of something, guys. I've also got NO SMOKE, NO REALLY STANK SMELL, and as a matter of fact, ...when advanced even 9* further, it smells even better at the pipe. Even the oil looks ok.
I think at this point, seeing as I don't have to pull the head to do a cam, ...I'll be swapping that pitted, scored, CHUNKS MISSING CAM out with a nice CRANE with a 1500-4800 Duration... Kragen actually gets them in for ya for around 115$
I'd prefer an Engnbldr CAM, most likely, so we'll see if my 'installation helper' can wait, ...and I'd probably go that route. I've also got an 'IN' on some either 4.56 or 4.88 gears, from a racing shop that will trade straight up for my 4.10's ..... Sound good?
I've also, for now, removed the K&N kit. NO WAY IN HELL that thing isn't making things hotter in there. It's recycling HOT AS HELL breaking in engine heat, and the Powdercoated pipe to the plenum is so hot you can barely touch it. Drove around 30 minutes, last night, and noticed the stock set up was FAR cooler, not only on the stock plastic pipe. The AFM itself, with the LCE kit, was so hot that, you could barely hold your hand on it... NOW? >> NOT EVEN HALF as hot. That's got to effect the Ambient Temp reading, which would lean it out, no? Although, while it would seem to lean it out, it seems to be sucking air, SOOOOOO LOUDLY, you can barely hear the exhaust with your head tucked by the driver-front wheel! lol. The sound is GREAT, and I'm NOT KNOCKING IT!(the K&N)... I think with it moved to the other side, as well as an adjustment on the idle/intake air needle... maybe it's less likely to get as hot. Even with a BOX, which I would have to make, pulling air from the original or alternate route from the front... I would think that pulling even 90* air in as opposed to 220* or so?... has to be better, ..NO?
HELP, GUYS, LET'S GET THIS DONE! HAHAHAHA. Just want some more input on the appearance of the CAM, etc. Anyone see that kind of wear pattern, etc.? I know with the new lifters, it's going to leave some markings on the cam,....but they don't seem very even and the CHIPS AND PITS AND MISSING PIECES?????? I"m really interested in some input... Thanks,
Mark
08-30-2010, 10:45 AM
#723
THOOOOOOOOOOOK?!?!?! HAHAHAHAA.
Homie is busy, NO DOUBT... sure can't wait for you to chime in though, buddy!
Talked to TED;
First, he went through a GREAT list that I'm going to post here, granting he doesn't stop in and 'chime away'..... But his second post, once he'd read the couple posts above the pics and then the pics, themselves, said, ..... "THAT CAM IS HISTORY", hahaha. DANG I love that guy! lol. Ok, love is strong, but "I LOVE MILKING HIS KNOWLEDGE!" HAHAHA. Answered me in 20 minutes, too!
So, for now, I'm on the hunt for a Stock Cam to break it in fully, then I'll go to the 261 after a few hundy more.(Per Tod's suggestion). I might have a clean used cam from Rob2Tech, to use, but I'd rather go new, then sell it or something once I buy the 261. ANY IDEAS where I can walk in and get one? NOT a TRD, and Toyota does NOT have my OEM Stock Duration Cam... so other than Kragen? Napa doesn't have ANY in stock, they don't carry them any more. They said they might be able to get them, but he didn't sound enthusiastic, lol. I just wanna walk in an buy one somewhere, guys... I'm done with the net ordering, until I deal with Tod, in the near future(HOPEFULLY, PLEASE GOD!)lol.
L8r, t8rs,
Mark
Homie is busy, NO DOUBT... sure can't wait for you to chime in though, buddy!
Talked to TED;
First, he went through a GREAT list that I'm going to post here, granting he doesn't stop in and 'chime away'..... But his second post, once he'd read the couple posts above the pics and then the pics, themselves, said, ..... "THAT CAM IS HISTORY", hahaha. DANG I love that guy! lol. Ok, love is strong, but "I LOVE MILKING HIS KNOWLEDGE!" HAHAHA. Answered me in 20 minutes, too!
So, for now, I'm on the hunt for a Stock Cam to break it in fully, then I'll go to the 261 after a few hundy more.(Per Tod's suggestion). I might have a clean used cam from Rob2Tech, to use, but I'd rather go new, then sell it or something once I buy the 261. ANY IDEAS where I can walk in and get one? NOT a TRD, and Toyota does NOT have my OEM Stock Duration Cam... so other than Kragen? Napa doesn't have ANY in stock, they don't carry them any more. They said they might be able to get them, but he didn't sound enthusiastic, lol. I just wanna walk in an buy one somewhere, guys... I'm done with the net ordering, until I deal with Tod, in the near future(HOPEFULLY, PLEASE GOD!)lol.
L8r, t8rs,
Mark
08-30-2010, 04:47 PM
#729
Registered User
Hey Mark,
Just browsed through those pics...that cam definitely should not have been chipping around the lobes, and whats up with the surface rust on the valve springs? Maybe we should get together and hang our machinists LOL but I can't really tell anything 'out of the ordinary' besides the edges of the cam chipping away.
What are you going to end up doing? Engnbldr 268C Torkr ??
Just browsed through those pics...that cam definitely should not have been chipping around the lobes, and whats up with the surface rust on the valve springs? Maybe we should get together and hang our machinists LOL but I can't really tell anything 'out of the ordinary' besides the edges of the cam chipping away.
What are you going to end up doing? Engnbldr 268C Torkr
??
08-30-2010, 10:48 PM
#730
Registered User
I've been sitting back and watching knowing full well Todd or Ted would have something far better to offer in the way of input on that cam. I mean, the pitting/chips certainly didn't look good to me, either. But, what do I know? I hope none of them lodged in your bearings somewhere.
08-30-2010, 10:58 PM
#731
Ahhh, I see, you checked into it? O'reily's for sure has it. # different brands and a couple diff. profiles. One of them is 258$??? lol. Anyway, I believe they will get you a CRANE as well, as they must deal with them. Howeverrrrrr, a "machinist" told me, RECENTLY, lol... "Crane Cams are ALWAYS more aggressive of a profile than they claim." I DO NOT want that, period. I think I'll just go with a New 261, btw, because it is far more versatile, according to Tod, with around a 1400-4800rpm profile. THAT'S what I want... not a really torquing, not able to do over 70 comfortably type of CAM. I've been doing a lot of research, and I'll come to a decision SOON! Possibly tomorrow. Thanks for the info, 90!
Hey Mark,
Just browsed through those pics...that cam definitely should not have been chipping around the lobes, and whats up with the surface rust on the valve springs? Maybe we should get together and hang our machinists LOL but I can't really tell anything 'out of the ordinary' besides the edges of the cam chipping away.
What are you going to end up doing? Engnbldr 268C Torkr ??
Just browsed through those pics...that cam definitely should not have been chipping around the lobes, and whats up with the surface rust on the valve springs? Maybe we should get together and hang our machinists LOL but I can't really tell anything 'out of the ordinary' besides the edges of the cam chipping away.
What are you going to end up doing? Engnbldr 268C Torkr
??Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 08-30-2010 at 11:01 PM.
08-30-2010, 11:13 PM
#732
I've been sitting back and watching knowing full well Todd or Ted would have something far better to offer in the way of input on that cam. I mean, the pitting/chips certainly didn't look good to me, either. But, what do I know? I hope none of them lodged in your bearings somewhere.
HEYYYY! What is UP, Brudda? Hoping you're doing well. Yeah, it didn't look good to me, either, lol. I mean, I just don't get it... to build a head with everything new, and talk someone out of getting a new cam(Like the machinist did with me????)... Just really gets my goat.... Btw, you have goats? hehehe. I appreciate your candid nature, Matthew.. and don't sweat it, you know I wouldn't rest until it's GREMLIN FREE! hahaha... well, at least MOSTLY gremlin free. There's almost something to do on these! lol.
How's it going with your rig's?
08-30-2010, 11:24 PM
#733
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When you pull the rocker assembly check the part that rides on the cam lobes to make sure that cam hasn`t damaged them. Im definatly no expert at all but you can deffinatly tell that cam is toast.
08-31-2010, 12:40 AM
#734
Yeah, I'm just debating and VERY curious and concerned at this point on a couple things....
1. What do I do for journals with a new CAM? Don't they set them to the head with a particular CAM? Considering the CAM will be new, would I use the same new journals with the New CAM, using Plastigauge to check, etc.???
2. Am I taking a risk, even if the miss clears up, by just replacing the CAM, along with whatever might have worn unusually in the last 500 miles on a fresh motor? Or, is it 'totally acceptable' to replace the CAM, plug and play with whatever else it might need, and continue on with my 'break in'?
3. Would my best bet, could I afford it soon, be to just start fresh with the head and go with a Street Head w/261 CAM from Engine Builder?
Sorry, it's just that, DANGIT, I've gone through all this trouble, solely for the purpose of not having to mess with this any longer... and HERE I AM, tearing into this thing again. I hate the indecision, more than anything, so I just have to make up my mind. I told Ted, and Tod, that " I KNOW it's a spilled milk type situation, but I TOTALLY wish I'd bought your head to begin with, like I'D TOLD my machinist I wanted to do". ..... guess that could be a lesson for SOMEONE who might read this.... If something is telling you to do something that's reasonable and wouldn't hurt anything....DO IT! lol.
PS> We tried to get Rob2Techs 87 Running tonight, but some things weren't 'tight' that had been done in the last few weeks I guess..... It's been eventful, let's just say... but it's LOTS of fun... I doubt as much fun for you right now, eh Rob? haha... I know that feeling, but s'all good, and WE'LL GET IT!
1. What do I do for journals with a new CAM? Don't they set them to the head with a particular CAM? Considering the CAM will be new, would I use the same new journals with the New CAM, using Plastigauge to check, etc.???
2. Am I taking a risk, even if the miss clears up, by just replacing the CAM, along with whatever might have worn unusually in the last 500 miles on a fresh motor? Or, is it 'totally acceptable' to replace the CAM, plug and play with whatever else it might need, and continue on with my 'break in'?
3. Would my best bet, could I afford it soon, be to just start fresh with the head and go with a Street Head w/261 CAM from Engine Builder?
Sorry, it's just that, DANGIT, I've gone through all this trouble, solely for the purpose of not having to mess with this any longer... and HERE I AM, tearing into this thing again. I hate the indecision, more than anything, so I just have to make up my mind. I told Ted, and Tod, that " I KNOW it's a spilled milk type situation, but I TOTALLY wish I'd bought your head to begin with, like I'D TOLD my machinist I wanted to do". ..... guess that could be a lesson for SOMEONE who might read this.... If something is telling you to do something that's reasonable and wouldn't hurt anything....DO IT! lol.
PS> We tried to get Rob2Techs 87 Running tonight, but some things weren't 'tight' that had been done in the last few weeks I guess..... It's been eventful, let's just say... but it's LOTS of fun... I doubt as much fun for you right now, eh Rob? haha... I know that feeling, but s'all good, and WE'LL GET IT!
08-31-2010, 03:22 AM
#735
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
hey Chef.....awesome pics, apparently great camera.
my eyeballs say that cam looks like hell. is that your problem?? no clue. what caused that kind of damage? no clue. could it be from being machined lie i believe you said it was ? no clue.
mostly, i have no clue (in case you didn't see that...hehehehe).
i am frustrated for you though......though you are definitely holding up quite well with all this.
i also grow nervous watching this knowing that my ignoramous butt did such a superficial job on my engine compared to your's.
if it were me....i would go with whatever cam you want and try that out......and i would imagine you can't do any bad by doing that....whether it be stock or aggressive, it will be new and perfect and eliminated as a future suspect. but, of course, it's very easy for me to spend your money.
been away for a few days so i had to catch up and try to digest all the happenings in your thread. again, technical stuff is beyond me. even though i did my engine, it was a superficial rebuild at best.
sooooooo......i'm staying tuned, wishing you well.
in my future lap of america (ok, in my head only, because it's never gonna really happen), i will drive out to pittsburgh to pick up LUMPY, drive straight out to Washington state to meet up with the hooligans there (kiyo,vitaly,DC,tofer,bird,2-door,cody), pick up Scuba and then pig-out at your house, drive to texas to meet up with Rob, stop in florida at bleeder's and then hit the wab-fab compound in tennessee , find olharleyman (doesn't post like he used to, but he was one of the original guys to inspire me to do my repair) in maryland, see swimmerboy's school bus 4runner and then head home.
good luck man
my eyeballs say that cam looks like hell. is that your problem?? no clue. what caused that kind of damage? no clue. could it be from being machined lie i believe you said it was ? no clue.
mostly, i have no clue (in case you didn't see that...hehehehe).
i am frustrated for you though......though you are definitely holding up quite well with all this.
i also grow nervous watching this knowing that my ignoramous butt did such a superficial job on my engine compared to your's.
if it were me....i would go with whatever cam you want and try that out......and i would imagine you can't do any bad by doing that....whether it be stock or aggressive, it will be new and perfect and eliminated as a future suspect. but, of course, it's very easy for me to spend your money.
been away for a few days so i had to catch up and try to digest all the happenings in your thread. again, technical stuff is beyond me. even though i did my engine, it was a superficial rebuild at best.
sooooooo......i'm staying tuned, wishing you well.
in my future lap of america (ok, in my head only, because it's never gonna really happen), i will drive out to pittsburgh to pick up LUMPY, drive straight out to Washington state to meet up with the hooligans there (kiyo,vitaly,DC,tofer,bird,2-door,cody), pick up Scuba and then pig-out at your house, drive to texas to meet up with Rob, stop in florida at bleeder's and then hit the wab-fab compound in tennessee , find olharleyman (doesn't post like he used to, but he was one of the original guys to inspire me to do my repair) in maryland, see swimmerboy's school bus 4runner and then head home.
good luck man
08-31-2010, 06:30 AM
#736
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Hey Mark, I have a stock cam sitting on my bench right now...I just pulled it out of my '90 to put in one of Ted's 261's. I don't know if it's in perfect shape or not, but the truck was running good with it in.
If you want, I'll ship you out the cam and you can use it till you get your 261...then just send it on back.
PM me your address if you'd like it. Saves buying a new cam that you'll only use for a little while anyway.
If you want, I'll ship you out the cam and you can use it till you get your 261...then just send it on back.
PM me your address if you'd like it. Saves buying a new cam that you'll only use for a little while anyway.
08-31-2010, 09:37 AM
#737
hey Chef.....awesome pics, apparently great camera.
Just a Nikon Coolpix, 8.1, set on Macro.... But I do a bit of photography, so I can sometimes get pretty good/tight shots.... NOT ALWAYS, hahaha. Thanks, man! I really want this thread to help others, as much or MORE than even myself, ya know?
my eyeballs say that cam looks like hell. is that your problem?? no clue. what caused that kind of damage? no clue. could it be from being machined lie i believe you said it was ? no clue.
It was probably just polished up, or he possibly did a grind(which would entail adding a coat and then grinding it down.... Those pits and chips look like they've been there a LONGGG time. The head components are pretty much all new, but he REUSED THE SAME CAM!! Fhewwwww, I'll leave that alone, Jerry... because I'm fully capable of building the entire motor, bottom to top, and I LET HIM DO IT, INSTEAD... and he makes a choice like that?... Seeing what this cam looks like? There is NO WAY he 'personally' did that CAM, ...no way in hell...unless he's gone completely blind and enjoys messing with first timers like ourselves, eh? lol. Whatever, I think I'm done with him, unless I decide to fight him in court or something... Very difficult to prove and AHHHHHHH,.... at this point? lol
mostly, i have no clue (in case you didn't see that...hehehehe).
hahahha! C'mon... you're quite the knowledge base by now..... You've just not had to learn over 4/5th's of the entire rig due to INCREDIBLY ILLUSIVE GREMLINS! lol... Even Ted said, ".... I'm not surprised this threw so many for a loop, especially if it was intended to be plug and play".. Pretty much what he said.
i am frustrated for you though......though you are definitely holding up quite well with all this.
THANKS, MAN! I try to have a positive attitude in everything that comes at me. I mean, 1. I'm learning. 2. I've met 5 PEOPLE, from on here, already! All nice and all helpful themselves! 3. I'm able to help a few people myself....THAT, to me, is really #1, and when it is, the other 2 seemed to fall in place. But, THANK GOD I had this site. I'd have not even bothered, at some point, ya know?
i also grow nervous watching this knowing that my ignoramous butt did such a superficial job on my engine compared to your's.
Don't be! You did a great job, Jerry, and you used all good quality stuff and had the help of a good eye in X, eh? Besides, ...this miss was there before my build, and now IT'S STILL HERE! Makes perfect sense to me that it's the CAM, and I just couldn't believe it when taking it apart, what I saw! lol. TOTALLY regret not just getting the block done and then plug and play the rest, then POP ON THE ENGNBLDR HEAD, THOUGH! Lesson learned! NOT A CHEAP ONE, either, in regards to TIME AND CABBAGE! lol.
if it were me....i would go with whatever cam you want and try that out......and i would imagine you can't do any bad by doing that....whether it be stock or aggressive, it will be new and perfect and eliminated as a future suspect. but, of course, it's very easy for me to spend your money.
HEY, are you spending my money again? GRRRRRRR! lol.ahahhaa. Nah, see that's the thing.... If I get the CAM, and it doesn't do the trick, then it's time to pull the head and THEN, I WILL do one of Ted/Tod's heads! PERIOD! I just can't justify spending 600$ or so if I don't need to. If i do the cam, it doesn't work, maybe they'll prorate the rest and I'll pop her in and GO!
been away for a few days so i had to catch up and try to digest all the happenings in your thread. again, technical stuff is beyond me. even though i did my engine, it was a superficial rebuild at best.
sooooooo......i'm staying tuned, wishing you well. THANKS, BACK ATCHA!
in my future lap of america (ok, in my head only, because it's never gonna really happen), i will drive out to pittsburgh to pick up LUMPY, drive straight out to Washington state to meet up with the hooligans there (kiyo,vitaly,DC,tofer,bird,2-door,cody), pick up Scuba and then pig-out at your house, drive to texas to meet up with Rob, stop in florida at bleeder's and then hit the wab-fab compound in tennessee , find olharleyman (doesn't post like he used to, but he was one of the original guys to inspire me to do my repair) in maryland, see swimmerboy's school bus 4runner and then head home.
hahaha, SWEEET! I'd love to meet up with more Yotatechies.... just so busy and haven't even had a FRIGGEN CAMPING TRIP BECAUSE OF THIS! lol. .... So, soon as I'm done, it's "SNOW MONKEY" Time! ...(Me and a few buds camp in the winter up by the hot springs, where the snow falls on our heads while soakin in the GOOD HEATS! ...Just like the snow monkeys in Asia!thus, the name, hahaha)
good luck man
Just a Nikon Coolpix, 8.1, set on Macro.... But I do a bit of photography, so I can sometimes get pretty good/tight shots.... NOT ALWAYS, hahaha. Thanks, man! I really want this thread to help others, as much or MORE than even myself, ya know?
my eyeballs say that cam looks like hell. is that your problem?? no clue. what caused that kind of damage? no clue. could it be from being machined lie i believe you said it was ? no clue.
It was probably just polished up, or he possibly did a grind(which would entail adding a coat and then grinding it down.... Those pits and chips look like they've been there a LONGGG time. The head components are pretty much all new, but he REUSED THE SAME CAM!! Fhewwwww, I'll leave that alone, Jerry... because I'm fully capable of building the entire motor, bottom to top, and I LET HIM DO IT, INSTEAD... and he makes a choice like that?... Seeing what this cam looks like? There is NO WAY he 'personally' did that CAM, ...no way in hell...unless he's gone completely blind and enjoys messing with first timers like ourselves, eh? lol. Whatever, I think I'm done with him, unless I decide to fight him in court or something... Very difficult to prove and AHHHHHHH,.... at this point? lol
mostly, i have no clue (in case you didn't see that...hehehehe).
hahahha! C'mon... you're quite the knowledge base by now..... You've just not had to learn over 4/5th's of the entire rig due to INCREDIBLY ILLUSIVE GREMLINS! lol... Even Ted said, ".... I'm not surprised this threw so many for a loop, especially if it was intended to be plug and play".. Pretty much what he said.
i am frustrated for you though......though you are definitely holding up quite well with all this.
THANKS, MAN! I try to have a positive attitude in everything that comes at me. I mean, 1. I'm learning. 2. I've met 5 PEOPLE, from on here, already! All nice and all helpful themselves! 3. I'm able to help a few people myself....THAT, to me, is really #1, and when it is, the other 2 seemed to fall in place. But, THANK GOD I had this site. I'd have not even bothered, at some point, ya know?
i also grow nervous watching this knowing that my ignoramous butt did such a superficial job on my engine compared to your's.
Don't be! You did a great job, Jerry, and you used all good quality stuff and had the help of a good eye in X, eh? Besides, ...this miss was there before my build, and now IT'S STILL HERE! Makes perfect sense to me that it's the CAM, and I just couldn't believe it when taking it apart, what I saw! lol. TOTALLY regret not just getting the block done and then plug and play the rest, then POP ON THE ENGNBLDR HEAD, THOUGH! Lesson learned! NOT A CHEAP ONE, either, in regards to TIME AND CABBAGE! lol.
if it were me....i would go with whatever cam you want and try that out......and i would imagine you can't do any bad by doing that....whether it be stock or aggressive, it will be new and perfect and eliminated as a future suspect. but, of course, it's very easy for me to spend your money.
HEY, are you spending my money again? GRRRRRRR! lol.ahahhaa. Nah, see that's the thing.... If I get the CAM, and it doesn't do the trick, then it's time to pull the head and THEN, I WILL do one of Ted/Tod's heads! PERIOD! I just can't justify spending 600$ or so if I don't need to. If i do the cam, it doesn't work, maybe they'll prorate the rest and I'll pop her in and GO!
been away for a few days so i had to catch up and try to digest all the happenings in your thread. again, technical stuff is beyond me. even though i did my engine, it was a superficial rebuild at best.
sooooooo......i'm staying tuned, wishing you well. THANKS, BACK ATCHA!
in my future lap of america (ok, in my head only, because it's never gonna really happen), i will drive out to pittsburgh to pick up LUMPY, drive straight out to Washington state to meet up with the hooligans there (kiyo,vitaly,DC,tofer,bird,2-door,cody), pick up Scuba and then pig-out at your house, drive to texas to meet up with Rob, stop in florida at bleeder's and then hit the wab-fab compound in tennessee , find olharleyman (doesn't post like he used to, but he was one of the original guys to inspire me to do my repair) in maryland, see swimmerboy's school bus 4runner and then head home.
hahaha, SWEEET! I'd love to meet up with more Yotatechies.... just so busy and haven't even had a FRIGGEN CAMPING TRIP BECAUSE OF THIS! lol. .... So, soon as I'm done, it's "SNOW MONKEY" Time! ...(Me and a few buds camp in the winter up by the hot springs, where the snow falls on our heads while soakin in the GOOD HEATS! ...Just like the snow monkeys in Asia!thus, the name, hahaha)
good luck man
Hey Mark, I have a stock cam sitting on my bench right now...I just pulled it out of my '90 to put in one of Ted's 261's. I don't know if it's in perfect shape or not, but the truck was running good with it in.
If you want, I'll ship you out the cam and you can use it till you get your 261...then just send it on back.
PM me your address if you'd like it. Saves buying a new cam that you'll only use for a little while anyway.
If you want, I'll ship you out the cam and you can use it till you get your 261...then just send it on back.
PM me your address if you'd like it. Saves buying a new cam that you'll only use for a little while anyway.
THIS HAS BEEN A FREAKIN EDUCATIONAL JOURNEY, EH? LOL... Just like that Lucy episode, where they say, "we're going to put you on your own show,Mrs. Ricardo....".. "OH< REALLY?"... yes, and it's called, "How not to work", hahahaha! Nah, I can't feel bad or give myself too much grief.... I've REALLY tried to be thorough and USE GOOD PARTS, ETC.! So, I got a bad machinist...what can I do at this point, right?
08-31-2010, 09:40 AM
#738
Hey Mark, I have a stock cam sitting on my bench right now...I just pulled it out of my '90 to put in one of Ted's 261's. I don't know if it's in perfect shape or not, but the truck was running good with it in.
If you want, I'll ship you out the cam and you can use it till you get your 261...then just send it on back.
PM me your address if you'd like it. Saves buying a new cam that you'll only use for a little while anyway.
If you want, I'll ship you out the cam and you can use it till you get your 261...then just send it on back.
PM me your address if you'd like it. Saves buying a new cam that you'll only use for a little while anyway.
08-31-2010, 02:00 PM
#739
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The only negative that I'll throw out there is that I seem to have lost a few MPG. Prior to the cam I was getting 23-25 consistently, now it's 18-21. Seems like that's contrary to most other folks results, so maybe I got something else going on...I'm going to dig into it some more before I conclude that the cam is definitely what cost me the MPG.
'course, your MPG is in the crapper anyway so 18-21 would probably be an improvement, no?
08-31-2010, 04:04 PM
#740
Well...it's definitely a big improvement on the low end, lots of torque just off idle that really helps crawling up nasty stuff, it lugs really well now. On the highway, there's an improvement though not a ton - I'm sure I could benefit from exhaust flow stuff, and probably head work (OS valves, etc) wouldn't hurt.
The only negative that I'll throw out there is that I seem to have lost a few MPG. Prior to the cam I was getting 23-25 consistently, now it's 18-21. Seems like that's contrary to most other folks results, so maybe I got something else going on...I'm going to dig into it some more before I conclude that the cam is definitely what cost me the MPG.
'course, your MPG is in the crapper anyway so 18-21 would probably be an improvement, no?
The only negative that I'll throw out there is that I seem to have lost a few MPG. Prior to the cam I was getting 23-25 consistently, now it's 18-21. Seems like that's contrary to most other folks results, so maybe I got something else going on...I'm going to dig into it some more before I conclude that the cam is definitely what cost me the MPG.
'course, your MPG is in the crapper anyway so 18-21 would probably be an improvement, no?
" lol.... But the issue is because with valves not opening enough, or out of time, the O2 is going to ALWAYS read lean, ...so it will tell the ECU "DUMP MORE FUEL, HURRY!" lol.... At least I would think that's part of my mileage issue. Let's say I have 2 lobes that are SHOT, which appears to be the case.... Well, that's 4 Exhuast or Intake Valves that aren't opening properly and allowing enough flow, thus, I'm 2 TIMES as lean as you are with simply having a more aggressive cam, right? (RIGHT?.... ANYONE? LOL). EVERYTHING in my motor, other than the rocker arm mounting pillars and such is NEW, ...so I SHOULD have better mileage with a properly timed 261, 268, HECK, EVEN BIGGER(which I'd not do, lol... Just sayin).
After putting my Stock Air Box back on for now, it APPEARS to be getting a lil better mileage(I KNOW, again, contrary to 'what most ppl say they've experienced)... And I'll leave that K&N off(at least until it's not as warm in there.... which could ALSO be due, largely, to a poorly timed or unable to time properly-top end... but it's supposedly TOTALLY normal for it to run a lil warmer under the hood, at least until everything seats, fully, eh?)
I'm waiting to hear from my buddy Andy, ......and then IT'S ON, YOTATECH-BRUDDA'S! LOL.
I'll be, for now, just changing out the CAM. A machinist has the donor cam, right now, and he will tell me "THIS THING IS PERFECTLY FINE" or "NUH UH!" lol... and then I'll probably do that, for now, or just pop in a 261... Because I CAN NOT justify spending 600+ dollars right now on a new head. HOWEVER, within 6 months, THAT ENGNGLDR STREET HEAD W/261 will be 'INSTALLED'! lol. I just can't really afford it, without being close to broke again, and then I wouldn't be able to do other things I'd like to for now.... Like lift my front end a TEENY bit(working on that with Rob2tech
), ironing out some Camping gear and fishing gear I've denied myself for about 3 years... and then, once that's done, I'M GONE! I will run in that cam or whatever cam at high idle for 'whateverrrrrr', and then it's FREEWAY BOUND, MY FRIENDS! I need it, bad, but I decided that, since Ted told me, "This CAM is only going to make things worse and worse... it will NOT simply improve, PERIOD!".... well, I better just be patient a LIL longer and get this over with, eh? I'd appreciate any more advice or input anyone has
!!! Lots of guys on here, I'm sure, have learned from this thread(Not sure if from me, but STILL, hahaha).. L8r t8rs,
Mark
