87 4Runner 22RE troubleshooting help needed
08-20-2010, 04:13 PM
#601
OK, ... Did a few vids....
First one is just of the Dizzy and some other filler. lol. Not sure I'll be able to really check for play without taking it out. Here'go anyhow, lol.......
Next is of a jam around the block and showing that the IACV is working, etc....
A quick one of the idle dropping when I hit the brakes, headlights(LOAD)..........
The gnarly hill behind my house......
Just an example of how it seems to smooth out at times, lately, and hardly miss... Sometimes not at all, if just for a minute or so, max. Something is heating up and expanding like the contacts or body/bearings in the dizzy, something, anything?????? lol...
Well, I was doing these videos while running all over planning for a party and checking on a Dome Light Kit LED thingy with 24 Bulbs.... So I thought i'd check the dizzy play where it sat, but I didn't have time to remove it and then HOPE I got it back in just right, eh? lol.
First one is just of the Dizzy and some other filler. lol. Not sure I'll be able to really check for play without taking it out. Here'go anyhow, lol.......
Next is of a jam around the block and showing that the IACV is working, etc....
A quick one of the idle dropping when I hit the brakes, headlights(LOAD)..........
The gnarly hill behind my house......
Just an example of how it seems to smooth out at times, lately, and hardly miss... Sometimes not at all, if just for a minute or so, max. Something is heating up and expanding like the contacts or body/bearings in the dizzy, something, anything?????? lol...
Well, I was doing these videos while running all over planning for a party and checking on a Dome Light Kit LED thingy with 24 Bulbs.... So I thought i'd check the dizzy play where it sat, but I didn't have time to remove it and then HOPE I got it back in just right, eh? lol.
08-21-2010, 06:08 AM
#602
Contributing Member
Don't know if any one has made suggestions for finding lean conditions. Try spraying Mapp gas around the vacuum lines. If that causes the idle to smooth out then you have a vacuum leak. Do the same thing around the intake manifold. throttle body, air intake or any place that mite affect fuel mixture.
08-21-2010, 09:52 AM
#603
Hey Buck, ....thanks for stopping in!
Well, I've got all new vacuum lines and I've done everything but the smoke test. It's hard to get accurate readings with this Cold Air Intake.... the 50% Ether St. Fluid is SO volatile that, even when it just pics up a mist into the cone,....'REVVVVVVV', lol. However, with a careful spraying all along the intake, plenum, etc.... I didn't catch any racing. I'll be trying the smoke test, next, if I can't find the cause of this miss, myself(along with the voltage dropping under load with new battery, alternator, cleaned up grounds and new power lines????)
You're up in San Jose near a couple Yotatech Buddies of mine. Nice to meet ya, Buck87!
PS> is that just what you had in your pocket at the time of joining?... or is it deeper than that? lol.
Well, I've got all new vacuum lines and I've done everything but the smoke test. It's hard to get accurate readings with this Cold Air Intake.... the 50% Ether St. Fluid is SO volatile that, even when it just pics up a mist into the cone,....'REVVVVVVV', lol. However, with a careful spraying all along the intake, plenum, etc.... I didn't catch any racing. I'll be trying the smoke test, next, if I can't find the cause of this miss, myself(along with the voltage dropping under load with new battery, alternator, cleaned up grounds and new power lines????)
You're up in San Jose near a couple Yotatech Buddies of mine. Nice to meet ya, Buck87!
PS> is that just what you had in your pocket at the time of joining?... or is it deeper than that? lol.
08-21-2010, 03:20 PM
#606
Registered User
Hey yo...Mark,
I just checked my rotor. What you're seeing.....the "clicking around".....along with whatever movement I'm going to say is quite normal. The cam has some slack in it due to the chain having some slack in it. So, naturally, the rotor would be able to move a bit. Plus, any flex you'd feel would have to be from the rotor flexing around on the shaft. I just had to be able to feel what was going on instead of just looking at your video. What you need to check for is if the shaft itself has play by pulling the dizzy out and grabbing it from the bottom end.....rather, the end with the gear that engages the cam.
Sorry I had to let you go so quick. My wife was calling and closing time was approaching. I have to clear the credit card machine at 6pm.
Anyway, I'll see about checking the resistance in regards to your meter reading dropping from the high reading to the one your meter was finally settling/hovering around. I'll check it on my wife's 3vze, as well. That would atleast be another point of comparison. Even though the specs are different, the ignition system works the same. Probably won't be able to post back until tomorrow from work, though.
Later, amigo......
I just checked my rotor. What you're seeing.....the "clicking around".....along with whatever movement I'm going to say is quite normal. The cam has some slack in it due to the chain having some slack in it. So, naturally, the rotor would be able to move a bit. Plus, any flex you'd feel would have to be from the rotor flexing around on the shaft. I just had to be able to feel what was going on instead of just looking at your video. What you need to check for is if the shaft itself has play by pulling the dizzy out and grabbing it from the bottom end.....rather, the end with the gear that engages the cam.
Sorry I had to let you go so quick. My wife was calling and closing time was approaching. I have to clear the credit card machine at 6pm.
Anyway, I'll see about checking the resistance in regards to your meter reading dropping from the high reading to the one your meter was finally settling/hovering around. I'll check it on my wife's 3vze, as well. That would atleast be another point of comparison. Even though the specs are different, the ignition system works the same. Probably won't be able to post back until tomorrow from work, though.
Later, amigo......
08-21-2010, 08:29 PM
#607
Oh, btw, I wasn't implying that you're broke or anything like that... reading back my post just sounds wrong, hahha. Sorry if you took it that way. I've just seen some people come up with some elusive ID's that they later told me, "well, didn't mean anything, ...was just trying to think of something and my rig is a red and a 4Runner...and my dog's name is Bubba,.... so, '4Redbubbarunner' " . lol.
Anyway, as I said, nice to meet ya!
Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 08-21-2010 at 08:40 PM.
08-21-2010, 08:38 PM
#608
Hey yo...Mark,
I just checked my rotor. What you're seeing.....the "clicking around".....along with whatever movement I'm going to say is quite normal. The cam has some slack in it due to the chain having some slack in it. So, naturally, the rotor would be able to move a bit. Plus, any flex you'd feel would have to be from the rotor flexing around on the shaft. I just had to be able to feel what was going on instead of just looking at your video. What you need to check for is if the shaft itself has play by pulling the dizzy out and grabbing it from the bottom end.....rather, the end with the gear that engages the cam.
Sorry I had to let you go so quick. My wife was calling and closing time was approaching. I have to clear the credit card machine at 6pm.
Anyway, I'll see about checking the resistance in regards to your meter reading dropping from the high reading to the one your meter was finally settling/hovering around. I'll check it on my wife's 3vze, as well. That would atleast be another point of comparison. Even though the specs are different, the ignition system works the same. Probably won't be able to post back until tomorrow from work, though.
Later, amigo......
I just checked my rotor. What you're seeing.....the "clicking around".....along with whatever movement I'm going to say is quite normal. The cam has some slack in it due to the chain having some slack in it. So, naturally, the rotor would be able to move a bit. Plus, any flex you'd feel would have to be from the rotor flexing around on the shaft. I just had to be able to feel what was going on instead of just looking at your video. What you need to check for is if the shaft itself has play by pulling the dizzy out and grabbing it from the bottom end.....rather, the end with the gear that engages the cam.
Sorry I had to let you go so quick. My wife was calling and closing time was approaching. I have to clear the credit card machine at 6pm.
Anyway, I'll see about checking the resistance in regards to your meter reading dropping from the high reading to the one your meter was finally settling/hovering around. I'll check it on my wife's 3vze, as well. That would atleast be another point of comparison. Even though the specs are different, the ignition system works the same. Probably won't be able to post back until tomorrow from work, though.
Later, amigo......
I've just GOT to figure this out, man! lol. Well, "WE'VE just got....", and mostly you, at this point! hahaha. This has just gone on too long. Sure, having several serious Toy Mechanics kinda stumped has me not feeling so bad... but it doesn't solve the problem, which is all I care about, hahaha. Heck, I'm back to dreaming about this stuff again... NOT COOL! HAHAHAHA! I actually grasped a couple things that had eluded me, previously, before today. So that was good. It's just... regarding the dizzy; I just don't wanna have to do 10 tries in getting it back in right, hahaha.
So, checking for play up and down and side to side(when it's out). The up and down is clear... but what I mean is; When turning it from side to side, I'm checking for a 'slack' before it grabs on the inner bearings, etc., right? Like with a steering wheel, eh? In that video i told you about, he was getting play diagonally, too. Hmmm, how to explain. As in, if you put a pencil in an hourglass and were able to pivot it from side to side due to the space at top and bottom... make sense?
Thanks, Matthew,
Looking forward to speaking with ya again,
Mark
08-22-2010, 05:22 AM
#609
Registered User
Ah Chef, 'tis an easy thing reinstalling the dizzy. Just turn your crank to 5*btdc on compression and make sure the rotor's at 10 o'clock when you put it back in. Of course, you don't even have to do that. Leave the crank wherever it's at and mark the rotor wherever it's at. Then, just make sure it lines up with your mark, again. No big deal, man.
Like a steering wheel or even the splined slip joint on the driveshaft. The pencil in the hourglass is a good analogy, too. Not sure what you're talking about in the video, though..... ie. "he was getting play diagonally". Which video? I'll watch again when I'm at work today.
You're welcome, Mark. Your situation has really pushed me to the limits of my knowledge. I'm having to learn more, but I like that.
My friend at the Toyota parts dept. turned me on to an '88 automatic 4rnr that's been sitting under a tree out in the boondocks, yesterday. I took a spin out to see it after I picked up the supplies he left for me at Toyota. It's freakin' dirty as hell and in a rather dismantled state, but the body's in good shape. No rust or dents. The front bumper's banged up a bit, the back seat's missing, there's no radiator or fan......IOW's, looks like the owner started tearing it down and gave up at some point. So, I talked to the lady that lives there. Turns out it belongs to the landlord. I left her with my name and phone number and she's gonna see if the landlord's interested in selling it. I don't know. I'm fixing up my '86, but I've had it in the back of my mind if I could find a donor chassis in good shape it'd be nice to swap out. Depends on if he'd sell, for what price, and if I could even really swing it financially. If nothing else, it'll probably still be there when chances are greater that I could afford it. Eh....we'll see. It's charcoal grey and a DLX. I could go for that.
Like a steering wheel or even the splined slip joint on the driveshaft. The pencil in the hourglass is a good analogy, too. Not sure what you're talking about in the video, though..... ie. "he was getting play diagonally". Which video? I'll watch again when I'm at work today.
You're welcome, Mark. Your situation has really pushed me to the limits of my knowledge. I'm having to learn more, but I like that.
My friend at the Toyota parts dept. turned me on to an '88 automatic 4rnr that's been sitting under a tree out in the boondocks, yesterday. I took a spin out to see it after I picked up the supplies he left for me at Toyota. It's freakin' dirty as hell and in a rather dismantled state, but the body's in good shape. No rust or dents. The front bumper's banged up a bit, the back seat's missing, there's no radiator or fan......IOW's, looks like the owner started tearing it down and gave up at some point. So, I talked to the lady that lives there. Turns out it belongs to the landlord. I left her with my name and phone number and she's gonna see if the landlord's interested in selling it. I don't know. I'm fixing up my '86, but I've had it in the back of my mind if I could find a donor chassis in good shape it'd be nice to swap out. Depends on if he'd sell, for what price, and if I could even really swing it financially. If nothing else, it'll probably still be there when chances are greater that I could afford it. Eh....we'll see. It's charcoal grey and a DLX. I could go for that.
08-22-2010, 09:36 AM
#610
Thanks, Matthew! I'll be checking that out asap.
CONGRATZ, hopefully, on the new find!
I'll hopefully have time for this today, sure hope so.
As far as the video... I was speaking of a video in 'google' under "Porsche 911 bad distributor video"... Was searching just under signs of a bad distributor, lol. Anyway, he wiggled it from the top, from side to side and it had a LOT of play in the shaft, ...thus, the hourglass explanation.
CONGRATZ, hopefully, on the new find!
I'll hopefully have time for this today, sure hope so.
As far as the video... I was speaking of a video in 'google' under "Porsche 911 bad distributor video"... Was searching just under signs of a bad distributor, lol. Anyway, he wiggled it from the top, from side to side and it had a LOT of play in the shaft, ...thus, the hourglass explanation.
08-22-2010, 09:42 AM
#611
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Ah Chef, 'tis an easy thing reinstalling the dizzy. Just turn your crank to 5*btdc on compression and make sure the rotor's at 10 o'clock when you put it back in. Of course, you don't even have to do that. Leave the crank wherever it's at and mark the rotor wherever it's at. Then, just make sure it lines up with your mark, again. No big deal, man.
Like a steering wheel or even the splined slip joint on the driveshaft. The pencil in the hourglass is a good analogy, too. Not sure what you're talking about in the video, though..... ie. "he was getting play diagonally". Which video? I'll watch again when I'm at work today.
You're welcome, Mark. Your situation has really pushed me to the limits of my knowledge. I'm having to learn more, but I like that.
My friend at the Toyota parts dept. turned me on to an '88 automatic 4rnr that's been sitting under a tree out in the boondocks, yesterday. I took a spin out to see it after I picked up the supplies he left for me at Toyota. It's freakin' dirty as hell and in a rather dismantled state, but the body's in good shape. No rust or dents. The front bumper's banged up a bit, the back seat's missing, there's no radiator or fan......IOW's, looks like the owner started tearing it down and gave up at some point. So, I talked to the lady that lives there. Turns out it belongs to the landlord. I left her with my name and phone number and she's gonna see if the landlord's interested in selling it. I don't know. I'm fixing up my '86, but I've had it in the back of my mind if I could find a donor chassis in good shape it'd be nice to swap out. Depends on if he'd sell, for what price, and if I could even really swing it financially. If nothing else, it'll probably still be there when chances are greater that I could afford it. Eh....we'll see. It's charcoal grey and a DLX. I could go for that.
Like a steering wheel or even the splined slip joint on the driveshaft. The pencil in the hourglass is a good analogy, too. Not sure what you're talking about in the video, though..... ie. "he was getting play diagonally". Which video? I'll watch again when I'm at work today.
You're welcome, Mark. Your situation has really pushed me to the limits of my knowledge. I'm having to learn more, but I like that.
My friend at the Toyota parts dept. turned me on to an '88 automatic 4rnr that's been sitting under a tree out in the boondocks, yesterday. I took a spin out to see it after I picked up the supplies he left for me at Toyota. It's freakin' dirty as hell and in a rather dismantled state, but the body's in good shape. No rust or dents. The front bumper's banged up a bit, the back seat's missing, there's no radiator or fan......IOW's, looks like the owner started tearing it down and gave up at some point. So, I talked to the lady that lives there. Turns out it belongs to the landlord. I left her with my name and phone number and she's gonna see if the landlord's interested in selling it. I don't know. I'm fixing up my '86, but I've had it in the back of my mind if I could find a donor chassis in good shape it'd be nice to swap out. Depends on if he'd sell, for what price, and if I could even really swing it financially. If nothing else, it'll probably still be there when chances are greater that I could afford it. Eh....we'll see. It's charcoal grey and a DLX. I could go for that.
bank of america say's they will back you up..
08-22-2010, 09:43 AM
#612
Registered User
Yeppers........that's what you're looking for.
I've misplaced my meter, so I haven't looked at the coil/igniter on my '86, yet. I just used it the other day, too, figuring out what was wrong with my wife's shop vac.
I've misplaced my meter, so I haven't looked at the coil/igniter on my '86, yet. I just used it the other day, too, figuring out what was wrong with my wife's shop vac.
08-22-2010, 09:44 AM
#613
Registered User
08-22-2010, 09:54 AM
#614
YES< ... .BOA! That's a perfect Abbreviation for them... "They lure you in with their fascinating eyes(tales of BEST DEAL ON THE PLANET, FREE EVERYTHING, COME ON IN, IT'S SAFE HERE!)... .THEN THEY GRAB YOU, CONSTRICT THE LIFE OUT OF YOU AND SPIT OUT YOUR BONES WHEN THEY'RE DONE DIGESTING YOU! ... Oh, then they send a bill to your family members when you're gone! hahaha. I know some don't like Wells', but they've ALWAYS done me right! (24 years!) B Of A took me for a ride, 3 TIMES TOO MANY with waiting for a paycheck cashing! NO MO! lol
Ok, well, when I have a lil bit of time, I'll head out and verify that, Matthew!
Ok, well, when I have a lil bit of time, I'll head out and verify that, Matthew!
08-22-2010, 03:11 PM
#615
UPDATE VIDEO:
First is just the dizzy, out of the truck, in hand........
Next is some videos of other things, including some more of the same....
In this video, below, any static in the audio is just the mic, something with my camera when I hit bumps, etc.... Anyway, if you can hear the smooth parts of it at higher RPM in 3rd coasting down the hill... that's what I was trying to share. It's not missing or backfiring or misfiring, etc. I would think it would be worse at higher RPM(MORE LOAD) than at idle if it was the dizzy or coil, etc.... but who knows at this point, eh? hahaha....
Next is just after it's warmed up enough to where it's a bit smoother, like always. Sorry the sound is not great, but you can get an idea that it's smoother.
So there you have it. I'd appreciate any commentary on the dizzy video(first one) where I'm pulling on the shaft. Any commentary at all, actually. As I said in the video, I think I retarded the timing, slightly, when putting it back in... so, it idled a tad lower, forcing me to screw out the idle air screw a tiny bit.
ANY HELP, GUYS?????????
First is just the dizzy, out of the truck, in hand........
Next is some videos of other things, including some more of the same....
In this video, below, any static in the audio is just the mic, something with my camera when I hit bumps, etc.... Anyway, if you can hear the smooth parts of it at higher RPM in 3rd coasting down the hill... that's what I was trying to share. It's not missing or backfiring or misfiring, etc. I would think it would be worse at higher RPM(MORE LOAD) than at idle if it was the dizzy or coil, etc.... but who knows at this point, eh? hahaha....
Next is just after it's warmed up enough to where it's a bit smoother, like always. Sorry the sound is not great, but you can get an idea that it's smoother.
So there you have it. I'd appreciate any commentary on the dizzy video(first one) where I'm pulling on the shaft. Any commentary at all, actually. As I said in the video, I think I retarded the timing, slightly, when putting it back in... so, it idled a tad lower, forcing me to screw out the idle air screw a tiny bit.
ANY HELP, GUYS?????????
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 08-22-2010 at 03:15 PM.
08-22-2010, 09:54 PM
#616
Contributing Member
Hahaha, Cool, I like it!
Oh, btw, I wasn't implying that you're broke or anything like that... reading back my post just sounds wrong, hahha. Sorry if you took it that way. I've just seen some people come up with some elusive ID's that they later told me, "well, didn't mean anything, ...was just trying to think of something and my rig is a red and a 4Runner...and my dog's name is Bubba,.... so, '4Redbubbarunner' " . lol.
Anyway, as I said, nice to meet ya!
Mark
Oh, btw, I wasn't implying that you're broke or anything like that... reading back my post just sounds wrong, hahha. Sorry if you took it that way. I've just seen some people come up with some elusive ID's that they later told me, "well, didn't mean anything, ...was just trying to think of something and my rig is a red and a 4Runner...and my dog's name is Bubba,.... so, '4Redbubbarunner' " . lol.
Anyway, as I said, nice to meet ya!
Mark
08-22-2010, 11:32 PM
#617
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Hey chef, i know you have checked just about everything, including the distributor, but have you checked the pick up coil in the distributor, the igniter, and the coil ?, either of those three things can cause the problems your having.
08-22-2010, 11:46 PM
#618
Hey Myyota! Glad you stopped by, thanks very much!
I meant to post this already(and I'm sure I have a FEW pages back, hahaha....
Retested the Coil: My meter starts out at anywhere between 40 and 90ohms... then drops to 0.7 and flashes between 0.7 and 0.8. (Specs are 0.5-0.7)... Could that really be enough to cause an issue? No, really, I don't know, ahhaaha.
The second test of coil secondary(prong in the coil wire hole and prong on the rt. terminal): 12.33k ohms (Specs are 6-14k) or something around that.... It was within specs.
Retested the Pick up: Tests right on around 160 (Specs are 140-180)
Dizzy Air Gap: Was .016 that last time I tested a few weeks ago.
Not sure how to test the 'ignitor'... Anyone point me in the right direction? I was told I might need an oscilloscope for that one..... ???
Hope that helps. Thanks again, Myyota, for stopping in
Mark
I meant to post this already(and I'm sure I have a FEW pages back, hahaha....
Retested the Coil: My meter starts out at anywhere between 40 and 90ohms... then drops to 0.7 and flashes between 0.7 and 0.8. (Specs are 0.5-0.7)... Could that really be enough to cause an issue? No, really, I don't know, ahhaaha.
The second test of coil secondary(prong in the coil wire hole and prong on the rt. terminal): 12.33k ohms (Specs are 6-14k) or something around that.... It was within specs.
Retested the Pick up: Tests right on around 160 (Specs are 140-180)
Dizzy Air Gap: Was .016 that last time I tested a few weeks ago.
Not sure how to test the 'ignitor'... Anyone point me in the right direction? I was told I might need an oscilloscope for that one..... ???
Hope that helps. Thanks again, Myyota, for stopping in
Mark
08-23-2010, 07:21 AM
#619
Registered User
Your igniter's fine, Chef. In other words, the way it goes bad is either to produce no spark at all (in which the vehicel simply won't start) or it stays on constantly instead of switching off when it's supposed to and burning out the coil. It's the switching on and off that causes the coil to produce high voltage. Obviously, after all this time, the coil's not burned out, so the igniter is switching fine. IOW, if it sticks in OFF function, no spark. If it sticks in ON, toasted coil. If it leaks voltage giving a "partial ON", it will still burn out the coil.
It's the coil reading you're getting that I'm curious about. That resistance dropping like that and then hovering is what I vaguely recall as being the problem with my wife's 3vze coil. I just need to verify because I don't recall exactly, and I don't want to jump to any conclusions about it. I'm looking for my meter still. It can't have gone far....
It's the coil reading you're getting that I'm curious about. That resistance dropping like that and then hovering is what I vaguely recall as being the problem with my wife's 3vze coil. I just need to verify because I don't recall exactly, and I don't want to jump to any conclusions about it. I'm looking for my meter still. It can't have gone far....
Last edited by thook; 08-23-2010 at 07:24 AM.
08-23-2010, 10:32 AM
#620
Thanks for check'n in, Matthew... I know you're busy! Hope you find the Meter soon, ..not just for me, lol. Obviously you need it, ....that stinks.
Cool, and THANKS, that totally cleared up a bunch of stuff and it's beginning to really sink in now. Just need to know if ANY play is acceptable and then, with ruling out the Dizzy(granting .016 Air gap-max specs- can't result in missing), ruling out the ignitor and possibly coil... I guess I'd be either heading back into a EFI issue or possibly something related to that idle drop along with voltage load.
Anyway, Looking forward to hearing from ya.
Take care,
Mark
Cool, and THANKS, that totally cleared up a bunch of stuff and it's beginning to really sink in now. Just need to know if ANY play is acceptable and then, with ruling out the Dizzy(granting .016 Air gap-max specs- can't result in missing), ruling out the ignitor and possibly coil... I guess I'd be either heading back into a EFI issue or possibly something related to that idle drop along with voltage load.
Anyway, Looking forward to hearing from ya.
Take care,
Mark
