87 4Runner 22RE troubleshooting help needed
06-17-2010, 09:39 AM
#181
Flecker, ....
Sorry, I'd forgotten you'd said 'Friday'....either way, let me know if you would rather I drop it off somewhere. NO problemo!
PS> Know anyone with a Fuel Pressure Test Kit? I left a message with my neighbor, he MOST LIKELY has one, but I never thought to ask him. I'll let you know. Seems like I'm back to a few variables here, lol. Also, maybe the timing being advanced is causing less mileage?
Sorry, I'd forgotten you'd said 'Friday'....either way, let me know if you would rather I drop it off somewhere. NO problemo!
PS> Know anyone with a Fuel Pressure Test Kit? I left a message with my neighbor, he MOST LIKELY has one, but I never thought to ask him. I'll let you know. Seems like I'm back to a few variables here, lol. Also, maybe the timing being advanced is causing less mileage?
06-17-2010, 09:50 AM
#182
Registered User
I've had some similar issues w/ my '87 22re engine sputtering and running like S_ at lower rpm's. After much troubleshooting, I tried unplugging the aftermarket O2 sensor that was installed when i bought the rig. It took care of the problem, so I bought an O2 sensor for $30 from the YotaYard and the sputtering hasn't returned (200 miles since).
06-17-2010, 10:06 AM
#183
Thanks JL,
Yeah, it's a brand new Denso from the dealer(bout 100 Miles on it). However, I did have to splice in the wiring, and even though it's done right, I'm going to redo it from harness to connector with shielded wire, just to rule that out.
Also, right now?...it's more of a creeping up idle issue, to where; Even if I leave the idle screw in nearly all the way, at cold start up, then drive it for a while, it will eventually creep up to 1000 rpms.
Still trying to rule out the booster, too.
Thanks, JL!
Yeah, it's a brand new Denso from the dealer(bout 100 Miles on it). However, I did have to splice in the wiring, and even though it's done right, I'm going to redo it from harness to connector with shielded wire, just to rule that out.
Also, right now?...it's more of a creeping up idle issue, to where; Even if I leave the idle screw in nearly all the way, at cold start up, then drive it for a while, it will eventually creep up to 1000 rpms.
Still trying to rule out the booster, too.
Thanks, JL!
06-17-2010, 12:26 PM
#184
Hey Guys,
I just spoke to a friend of my neighbors on the phone. He's the one I mentioned who is one of the serious 22re Guru's and worked at Toyota for Several years.
He explained a couple tests that I can do to try and figure out whether the O2 sensor is good or bad. He also explained a way to test the IACV, which could be the cause of my high idle at warm and low idle at cold, even though it's passing the air test, that's not going to rule out it's function/malfunction relating to coolant passing through it.
To be honest, he is WAY beyond my skill by a thousand times, so I'm having trouble keeping up with him. He said he could surely diagnose and fix it, quickly, if I can get it to him, but he's in Temecula, CA, and trust me, that's a bit far to go if I can't get it done in a day. However, .....I'm thinking about it, because if I can't fully rule out several things or can't really figure out how to do some of what he's suggesting, ....I just can't, period, lol. He said I can call him back if I can't figure something, so I'll probably do that when I'm out there with the car. I'm also a lil concerned about driving it all the way to Temecula, but I think I'd be ok, ...it's about 2 hours or so. It's not overheating, and as long as I was leaving around 6am I could avoid the stop and go. We'll see......
Sorry for confusing anyone, ........ I'm just really confused, hahaha.
I just spoke to a friend of my neighbors on the phone. He's the one I mentioned who is one of the serious 22re Guru's and worked at Toyota for Several years.
He explained a couple tests that I can do to try and figure out whether the O2 sensor is good or bad. He also explained a way to test the IACV, which could be the cause of my high idle at warm and low idle at cold, even though it's passing the air test, that's not going to rule out it's function/malfunction relating to coolant passing through it.
To be honest, he is WAY beyond my skill by a thousand times, so I'm having trouble keeping up with him. He said he could surely diagnose and fix it, quickly, if I can get it to him, but he's in Temecula, CA, and trust me, that's a bit far to go if I can't get it done in a day. However, .....I'm thinking about it, because if I can't fully rule out several things or can't really figure out how to do some of what he's suggesting, ....I just can't, period, lol. He said I can call him back if I can't figure something, so I'll probably do that when I'm out there with the car. I'm also a lil concerned about driving it all the way to Temecula, but I think I'd be ok, ...it's about 2 hours or so. It's not overheating, and as long as I was leaving around 6am I could avoid the stop and go. We'll see......
Sorry for confusing anyone, ........ I'm just really confused, hahaha.
06-17-2010, 01:38 PM
#185
Well what ever gets the job done 
Your problem is one of those deals like you said can be soooooo many things, we could prob add another 8 pages with ideas and try this and thats. Its hard for me cause i'm not there to physicaly approach it...
So guessing and idea tossing is all i can do.
But its getting narrower. It could very well still be the IAC. The tapping doesent always work so its not ruled yet. Fuel pressure/Reg is another possibility...
The new booster more than likely will solve your issue with the brakes.
After you repalce that booster if you can or want to get me some vacuum readings again and what the gauge is doing.
You said you cleaned the throttle body? Did you clean the coolant passages that run through the bottom of it?
Your problem is one of those deals like you said can be soooooo many things, we could prob add another 8 pages with ideas and try this and thats. Its hard for me cause i'm not there to physicaly approach it...
So guessing and idea tossing is all i can do.But its getting narrower. It could very well still be the IAC. The tapping doesent always work so its not ruled yet. Fuel pressure/Reg is another possibility...
The new booster more than likely will solve your issue with the brakes.
After you repalce that booster if you can or want to get me some vacuum readings again and what the gauge is doing.
You said you cleaned the throttle body? Did you clean the coolant passages that run through the bottom of it?
06-17-2010, 03:59 PM
#186
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If your brake pedal slowly creeps to the floor with vehicle stopped, it has been my exprience (not on Toyotas) that the master cylinder is bypassing inside. Just my .02 worth. That's all I can offer. LOL
06-17-2010, 10:28 PM
#187
Hey Kiroshu, Alan, ......
Thanks, so much, guys, for continuing to check in and throw in ....whatever! lol. NOTHING is ever wasted on a grateful person....and I'M VERY grateful, honest!
Ok, so I'll kill two birds with one stone here.
IT EXPLODED AND FLEW 30 FEET IN THE AIR, .....jk, lol. Actually, Flecker came by again, to pick up the cabbage for the ECU and see what he could do. GREAT GUY, ...thanks Brother! So anyway, he thinks, and I agree, the booster is most likely ok. The fuel cut system due to high idle is what's causing the dropping in idle and sometimes surging.{What happens is this. When your idle is above 1000, the ECU cuts the fuel when the brake is depressed, because it's trying to avoid a surge of fuel while you're trying to stop. This happens whether you're moving or not, thus, ....when you come to a stop and your idle is above 1000 for any number of reasons, hahaha(don't worry, we'll get it), the fuel is cut and the idle drops down. It 'surges' up and down because the idle is still sticking in mine at 1000 or above, thus, fuel cuts, then restores, then cuts, then restores, until I take my foot off the brake pedal.} I realllllllly don't think it has much or anything to do with the booster. I have one that my buddy at Kragen said, "Go ahead and swap it out, if it doesn't work, oh well, return it, no problem". The only reason I would do this is to see if the Master(Alan, lol) is working properly or maybe leaking fluid very slowly past the cylinder. I DOUBT this, only because, unless it's TINY, I'm not having any noticeable brake fluid loss.
NOWWWWW, as far as the few other kinks. It's really been hard to pin down, and I'm VERY grateful that Flecker has taken it on as a mission, when he's had time, hahaha. What we tested as best as we could tell by the Haynes Vague-Book, was the VSV, the one toward the rear of the Valve Cover. The front one is for AC, as most of you probably know, and is not seemingly functioning well, ....but the other day, Flecker, ...we did kick on the AC button and it seemed to drop in idle a bit as if I load was heading through it, ...no? Anyhow, that shouldn't effect performance and is far less important than the VSV in the rear, which controls, THE FPR, and ......Flecker is going to check, but he believes it controls the Cold Start Idle Up(Makes sense, at a mental glance for me, because I would think that it's either supposed to be relaxing or increasing vacuum pressure to the fuel pressure regulator...no? lol) Mine seems to run in reverse....'When cold, it idles lower, and doesn't seem to stick higher until fully warm(which, the VSV also being connected to the ECU and related to temperature and necessities of lean or rich conditions, ....seems almost as though it's just a passive valve at this point...not providing the proper pressure on the FPR, ever. Thus, it doesn't load up on fuel when cold like it should, then relaxing it off as it warms up>>>>?????? )
Flecker also took back my Gauge section of my dash and slapped some Dielectric Grease on the connection, hoping to restore the Temperature Gauge......which seemed to have worked at first, but it fell off, like it always does. Thus, I probably need a new gauge. My Oil Pressure Gauge was also seeming to read improperly, but then I think the grease brought it back to life....seems to be holding a reading well now. I think I'll replace both of them, just to be safe.
Kiroshu, I cleaned the coolant passages VERY WELL, in everything, and actually TOO FREAKING WELL! lol(Cleaned some of the pipes so much that they actually leaked through the pipes at the tapers, hahaha.) Plus, as I mentioned, the IACV seems to be operating properly. It's allowing coolant to pass through both hoses on top of passing the air hose check......
All the above was written around 10pm. Below was written just now as I came back from the store.....
Flecker, ......
I ran to the store tonight, and it actually gave me trouble starting. Once I made the next stop, then started it again a few minutes later, it started right up. Very odd, since, from the time it's been rebuilt, and even before the build, it's NEVER once had trouble starting. That Oil pressure gauge has got me a bit freaked out. I think I'll work on that along with whatever else, right away.
Anyway, I'm just a bit tired and needing to rest before a busy morning. Not sure what else i can say at this point. That pedal thing has me thinking, Flecker....Pretty sure I need to look at the linkage a bit closer, along with the plate/stop screw setting, know what I mean?
Night guys....I'm just a bit worn out on this for the moment, lol,
Mark
Thanks, so much, guys, for continuing to check in and throw in ....whatever! lol. NOTHING is ever wasted on a grateful person....and I'M VERY grateful, honest!
Ok, so I'll kill two birds with one stone here.
IT EXPLODED AND FLEW 30 FEET IN THE AIR, .....jk, lol. Actually, Flecker came by again, to pick up the cabbage for the ECU and see what he could do. GREAT GUY, ...thanks Brother! So anyway, he thinks, and I agree, the booster is most likely ok. The fuel cut system due to high idle is what's causing the dropping in idle and sometimes surging.{What happens is this. When your idle is above 1000, the ECU cuts the fuel when the brake is depressed, because it's trying to avoid a surge of fuel while you're trying to stop. This happens whether you're moving or not, thus, ....when you come to a stop and your idle is above 1000 for any number of reasons, hahaha(don't worry, we'll get it), the fuel is cut and the idle drops down. It 'surges' up and down because the idle is still sticking in mine at 1000 or above, thus, fuel cuts, then restores, then cuts, then restores, until I take my foot off the brake pedal.} I realllllllly don't think it has much or anything to do with the booster. I have one that my buddy at Kragen said, "Go ahead and swap it out, if it doesn't work, oh well, return it, no problem". The only reason I would do this is to see if the Master(Alan, lol) is working properly or maybe leaking fluid very slowly past the cylinder. I DOUBT this, only because, unless it's TINY, I'm not having any noticeable brake fluid loss.
NOWWWWW, as far as the few other kinks. It's really been hard to pin down, and I'm VERY grateful that Flecker has taken it on as a mission, when he's had time, hahaha. What we tested as best as we could tell by the Haynes Vague-Book, was the VSV, the one toward the rear of the Valve Cover. The front one is for AC, as most of you probably know, and is not seemingly functioning well, ....but the other day, Flecker, ...we did kick on the AC button and it seemed to drop in idle a bit as if I load was heading through it, ...no? Anyhow, that shouldn't effect performance and is far less important than the VSV in the rear, which controls, THE FPR, and ......Flecker is going to check, but he believes it controls the Cold Start Idle Up(Makes sense, at a mental glance for me, because I would think that it's either supposed to be relaxing or increasing vacuum pressure to the fuel pressure regulator...no? lol) Mine seems to run in reverse....'When cold, it idles lower, and doesn't seem to stick higher until fully warm(which, the VSV also being connected to the ECU and related to temperature and necessities of lean or rich conditions, ....seems almost as though it's just a passive valve at this point...not providing the proper pressure on the FPR, ever. Thus, it doesn't load up on fuel when cold like it should, then relaxing it off as it warms up>>>>?????? )
Flecker also took back my Gauge section of my dash and slapped some Dielectric Grease on the connection, hoping to restore the Temperature Gauge......which seemed to have worked at first, but it fell off, like it always does. Thus, I probably need a new gauge. My Oil Pressure Gauge was also seeming to read improperly, but then I think the grease brought it back to life....seems to be holding a reading well now. I think I'll replace both of them, just to be safe.
Kiroshu, I cleaned the coolant passages VERY WELL, in everything, and actually TOO FREAKING WELL! lol(Cleaned some of the pipes so much that they actually leaked through the pipes at the tapers, hahaha.) Plus, as I mentioned, the IACV seems to be operating properly. It's allowing coolant to pass through both hoses on top of passing the air hose check......
All the above was written around 10pm. Below was written just now as I came back from the store.....
Flecker, ......
I ran to the store tonight, and it actually gave me trouble starting. Once I made the next stop, then started it again a few minutes later, it started right up. Very odd, since, from the time it's been rebuilt, and even before the build, it's NEVER once had trouble starting. That Oil pressure gauge has got me a bit freaked out. I think I'll work on that along with whatever else, right away.
Anyway, I'm just a bit tired and needing to rest before a busy morning. Not sure what else i can say at this point. That pedal thing has me thinking, Flecker....Pretty sure I need to look at the linkage a bit closer, along with the plate/stop screw setting, know what I mean?
Night guys....I'm just a bit worn out on this for the moment, lol,
Mark
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-17-2010 at 10:31 PM.
06-18-2010, 03:41 AM
#189
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
still here....still watching....still hoping.
geezous.....you're gonna be a 22re wizard by the time your done with this, holy hell Chef.
geezous.....you're gonna be a 22re wizard by the time your done with this, holy hell Chef.
06-18-2010, 09:59 AM
#190
Thanks Alan, I'll read up.
92, .....hardly a wizard, lol, ....but I have learned quite a bit .... Largely in the last couple weeks via Flecker, and I AM paying close attention to everyone I speak with. However, .....I think at times it just becomes TOO MUCH INFORMATION. It feels like trying to do a 1 year class in a couple months, hahahaha.
OKKKKKK, NOW, I'm waiting on Flecker or an otherwise more experienced 22re Brothers to interject....but I think I have something to focus on here. Reading this morning, through section 4-6 and 4-7, I FINALLY came across the 'AIR VALVE' description, which says;
"Air Valve;
The air valve BYPASSES the throttle valve to control the quantity of air required for INCREASING THE ENGINE IDLE SPEED when starting the engine at a coolant temperature below a predetermined level. A bimetal spring and HEATER are built into the valve. When the ignition switch it turned to start position, or when the engine is running electrical current, flows through the heater and bimetal spring. As the heater warms up, the air passage will remain closed until the engine is stopped or the coolant temperature drops below the predetermined level."
AM I CRAZY, or does this IACV CONTROL the idle up procedure? The reason I ask is because MY TRUCK HAS NEVER IDLED UP, EVER, since buying it 8 years ago! The only thing I can think of, not being able/or being willing to take it apart(I've read superdaves thread, lol) is that, SOMETHING in this valve, while APPEARING to operate properly and allow coolant to pass through(both hoses become hot as it warms up) IS NOT FORCING THE IDLE UP WHEN FIRST STARTING THE TRUCK!!!!! PLEASE, SOMEONE, confirm this for me, ...that the IACV has it's OWN heater and temp sensor inside, and bypasses the throttle valve until the motor REACHES OPERATING TEMP???????????
Another important note to RE-INTRODUCE;
When I start it cold, it doesn't idle up....we've covered that. However, as I feather the pedal, it increases slightly within a couple minutes....BUT NOT ON IT'S OWN! Flecker can testify to the fact that, when I PULL BACK ON THE GAS PEDAL with my foot, ....the idle drops down and stays there, at 750-800(wherever we have the screw at the time). SO, ...am I correct in assuming that I JUST MIGHT just have a problem with 1. My Throttle Linkage/cable. And 2. That, my IACV IS NOT operating properly?
I called a fairly highly skilled Toy mechanic who told me, straight out, "THAT VSV HAS NOTHING to do with idle up. It only alters vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator, and seeing that the Fuel Pump in this system only gets to 38"lbs or so, ....and YOURS IS NEW, ...it's doubtful that it would cause an idle problem or otherwise problems like you're experiencing"....then he said, "I'M REALLY BUSY AND HAVE TO GO", hahaha. He also said the Damper is more common a replacement than the FPR, and that even then, it would NOT be displaying the problems I'm experiencing. Rather, I would more likely just be flooding, or too lean, either way. More often, flooding, as the diaphragm goes and the fuel pump is unrestricted, thus dumping fuel, but NOT CONTROLLING IDLE!
GUYS???????????????
92, .....hardly a wizard, lol, ....but I have learned quite a bit .... Largely in the last couple weeks via Flecker, and I AM paying close attention to everyone I speak with. However, .....I think at times it just becomes TOO MUCH INFORMATION. It feels like trying to do a 1 year class in a couple months, hahahaha.
OKKKKKK, NOW, I'm waiting on Flecker or an otherwise more experienced 22re Brothers to interject....but I think I have something to focus on here. Reading this morning, through section 4-6 and 4-7, I FINALLY came across the 'AIR VALVE' description, which says;
"Air Valve;
The air valve BYPASSES the throttle valve to control the quantity of air required for INCREASING THE ENGINE IDLE SPEED when starting the engine at a coolant temperature below a predetermined level. A bimetal spring and HEATER are built into the valve. When the ignition switch it turned to start position, or when the engine is running electrical current, flows through the heater and bimetal spring. As the heater warms up, the air passage will remain closed until the engine is stopped or the coolant temperature drops below the predetermined level."
AM I CRAZY, or does this IACV CONTROL the idle up procedure? The reason I ask is because MY TRUCK HAS NEVER IDLED UP, EVER, since buying it 8 years ago! The only thing I can think of, not being able/or being willing to take it apart(I've read superdaves thread, lol) is that, SOMETHING in this valve, while APPEARING to operate properly and allow coolant to pass through(both hoses become hot as it warms up) IS NOT FORCING THE IDLE UP WHEN FIRST STARTING THE TRUCK!!!!! PLEASE, SOMEONE, confirm this for me, ...that the IACV has it's OWN heater and temp sensor inside, and bypasses the throttle valve until the motor REACHES OPERATING TEMP???????????
Another important note to RE-INTRODUCE;
When I start it cold, it doesn't idle up....we've covered that. However, as I feather the pedal, it increases slightly within a couple minutes....BUT NOT ON IT'S OWN! Flecker can testify to the fact that, when I PULL BACK ON THE GAS PEDAL with my foot, ....the idle drops down and stays there, at 750-800(wherever we have the screw at the time). SO, ...am I correct in assuming that I JUST MIGHT just have a problem with 1. My Throttle Linkage/cable. And 2. That, my IACV IS NOT operating properly?
I called a fairly highly skilled Toy mechanic who told me, straight out, "THAT VSV HAS NOTHING to do with idle up. It only alters vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator, and seeing that the Fuel Pump in this system only gets to 38"lbs or so, ....and YOURS IS NEW, ...it's doubtful that it would cause an idle problem or otherwise problems like you're experiencing"....then he said, "I'M REALLY BUSY AND HAVE TO GO", hahaha. He also said the Damper is more common a replacement than the FPR, and that even then, it would NOT be displaying the problems I'm experiencing. Rather, I would more likely just be flooding, or too lean, either way. More often, flooding, as the diaphragm goes and the fuel pump is unrestricted, thus dumping fuel, but NOT CONTROLLING IDLE!
GUYS???????????????
06-18-2010, 10:13 AM
#191
Registered User
I am not too familiar with the re but by the sounds of it between the thermo time switch and the IACV, they are pretty much the EFI version of a choke. You might be on the right track.
06-18-2010, 10:17 AM
#192
Registered User
one thing of note, not that it means anything when I first start my carbed motor int he morning the idle starts "low" then increases by about 400 RPM within maybe 30 seconds. the reason being is that the fan clutch is engaged when first cold and after it warms up a bit then the clutch releases and the fan takes it's drag off the motor. But you would notice this as the fan makes a distinct noise when the clutch is engaged.
06-18-2010, 10:18 AM
#193
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
boy Chef, I wish i knew what the hell to say here.
what you got here is a conundrum....and enigma. i can only testify as to what i touched in my project and to that extent only very superficial knowledge of the working and procedures......in other words....just enough to get me by.
on your list, with 2 columns or so, i assume you have crossed off the "least likely", crossed off most of the "kinda likely" and have been concentrating heavily on the "highly likely" suspects in this CSI-ish mystery.
i know you made mention once of "not just gonna throw parts at it", but geezous already.......it may be time for it. for me, it would have been a long time ago......you have the patience of a saint and the endurance of a marathon runner to keep at this. I admire and applaud you for it, but in no way could i imitate it myself.
my hat is off to you.
what you got here is a conundrum....and enigma. i can only testify as to what i touched in my project and to that extent only very superficial knowledge of the working and procedures......in other words....just enough to get me by.
on your list, with 2 columns or so, i assume you have crossed off the "least likely", crossed off most of the "kinda likely" and have been concentrating heavily on the "highly likely" suspects in this CSI-ish mystery.
i know you made mention once of "not just gonna throw parts at it", but geezous already.......it may be time for it. for me, it would have been a long time ago......you have the patience of a saint and the endurance of a marathon runner to keep at this. I admire and applaud you for it, but in no way could i imitate it myself.
my hat is off to you.
06-18-2010, 10:19 AM
#194
YotaTech Milestone-Two Millionth Post
again....the only thing close to what you have going on is what i experienced when purging my cooling system and had a "loping" idle
06-18-2010, 12:26 PM
#195
Registered User
Ok lemme see here...
I'm thinking the "Air valve" and the IACV are right close to each other and or built into the same piece of stuff here. I'd pull the Throttle body out and clean it all...get in to all the lil nicks and crannies. If you see a screw take it out and clean it. Also go to a pick and pull and get a new Fuel pressure reg. and be done with that. Make sure your Cold Start Injector is doing what it's suppose to be doing and the A/C has it's own idle up screw.
Give everything a good burp as well, I know you've been there but just do it again. If there is an air pocket it can cause issues.
Test for the throttle cable, disconnect it. Don't need it if your not driving it. Maybe the throttle plate is sticking a bit, may not be the cable. You can also get a vac leak around the TP.
I really don't think it's the booster although I have seen stranger things.
I hope this helps ya some...sorry it took me so long to get caught up. I'll try to keep a better eye on this. Did the PM's help at all?
I'm thinking the "Air valve" and the IACV are right close to each other and or built into the same piece of stuff here. I'd pull the Throttle body out and clean it all...get in to all the lil nicks and crannies. If you see a screw take it out and clean it. Also go to a pick and pull and get a new Fuel pressure reg. and be done with that. Make sure your Cold Start Injector is doing what it's suppose to be doing and the A/C has it's own idle up screw.
Give everything a good burp as well, I know you've been there but just do it again. If there is an air pocket it can cause issues.
Test for the throttle cable, disconnect it. Don't need it if your not driving it. Maybe the throttle plate is sticking a bit, may not be the cable. You can also get a vac leak around the TP.
I really don't think it's the booster although I have seen stranger things.
I hope this helps ya some...sorry it took me so long to get caught up. I'll try to keep a better eye on this. Did the PM's help at all?
06-18-2010, 12:26 PM
#196
Thanks Guys, ...
Dang, it's just CRAZY! It's like there are a couple lil mechanical and electrical gremlins fighting me, and other than that, it's REALLY running well! However, it's enough of a concern that I'm not ready to just head out on some longer style trip and work it out later, know what I mean?
OK, SOOOOOOOOOOOOO;
I went out and relaxed my throttle cable, which didn't seem too tight to begin with, and oddly, the idle started out much lower, chunkier and then within 20 seconds or so with a couple taps of the throttle and , it came up to about 600 or so, then with an screw OUT of the Idle Adjustment screw, it came up to 750 or so. (Before starting it, I also cleaned the tips of the stop screw and stop plate, because that IS where that 'sticking' sound is coming from.....yet, this would only make it stick low, not higher). I drove around the block, which usually gets me up to 1000 rpms or so, but this time did not. I then continued to drive about a couple miles to let it FULLY warm up, ....I pulled in the driveway, stopped, and it was now stuck at 1100 rpms again, actually more. First, I opened the hood and pressed back(closed) on the throttle linkage, and it idled down some to 850 or so, but still, I had to screw the adjustment screw back in at this time to get it back to 750.
WTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH? SOMETHING in my linkage or throttle body inner workings(plate, etc.) seem to be causing it to stick....but the fact that I HAVE to screw in the idle screw(or out if it's cold) to get it where it should be JUST SIMPLY HAS ME STUMPED!
Since cleaning the surfaces of the stop screw tip and stop plate, along with relaxing the cable, it seems to have freed it up some, INITIALLY....but that still doesn't explain the REVERSE FREAKING ORDER on the idle up and so on at warm up.
I'D REALLY LOVE for someone with experience in the idle up system to chime in. For now, I'm just resolved to accept that I'm fairly stuck!
Dang, it's just CRAZY! It's like there are a couple lil mechanical and electrical gremlins fighting me, and other than that, it's REALLY running well! However, it's enough of a concern that I'm not ready to just head out on some longer style trip and work it out later, know what I mean?
OK, SOOOOOOOOOOOOO;
I went out and relaxed my throttle cable, which didn't seem too tight to begin with, and oddly, the idle started out much lower, chunkier and then within 20 seconds or so with a couple taps of the throttle and , it came up to about 600 or so, then with an screw OUT of the Idle Adjustment screw, it came up to 750 or so. (Before starting it, I also cleaned the tips of the stop screw and stop plate, because that IS where that 'sticking' sound is coming from.....yet, this would only make it stick low, not higher). I drove around the block, which usually gets me up to 1000 rpms or so, but this time did not. I then continued to drive about a couple miles to let it FULLY warm up, ....I pulled in the driveway, stopped, and it was now stuck at 1100 rpms again, actually more. First, I opened the hood and pressed back(closed) on the throttle linkage, and it idled down some to 850 or so, but still, I had to screw the adjustment screw back in at this time to get it back to 750.
WTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH? SOMETHING in my linkage or throttle body inner workings(plate, etc.) seem to be causing it to stick....but the fact that I HAVE to screw in the idle screw(or out if it's cold) to get it where it should be JUST SIMPLY HAS ME STUMPED!
Since cleaning the surfaces of the stop screw tip and stop plate, along with relaxing the cable, it seems to have freed it up some, INITIALLY....but that still doesn't explain the REVERSE FREAKING ORDER on the idle up and so on at warm up.
I'D REALLY LOVE for someone with experience in the idle up system to chime in. For now, I'm just resolved to accept that I'm fairly stuck!
06-18-2010, 12:28 PM
#198
Registered User
Set the idle after its warm and leave it be...Fight with it like that, I wouldn't keep messing with it. Are you sure the dashpot isn't sticking still?
I since it's not idling up when cold you manually do this so after it warms up it does not need all the extra that you gave it so you have to screw it back in.
Mine on idle cold is about 1200 to 1300
On warm its about 730
Warm on start 300 then up to 730 after 30 seconds.
I since it's not idling up when cold you manually do this so after it warms up it does not need all the extra that you gave it so you have to screw it back in.
Mine on idle cold is about 1200 to 1300
On warm its about 730
Warm on start 300 then up to 730 after 30 seconds.
Last edited by Lumpy; 06-18-2010 at 12:31 PM.
06-18-2010, 12:39 PM
#199
Hey Lumpy, thanks man!
Sure, ANYTHINGGGGGGGGG helps, trust me. It keeps me thinking and eliminating and 'doing the math', so to speak on trying to narrow things down.
The Throttle body is VERY clean. Flecker and I removed it to adjust the TPS, ....but we didn't DOUBLE CHECK the stop screw before doing so. That could be an issue, but mine seem so much diff than the 'usual symptoms' as they relate to the TPS. HOWEVER, IFFFF the plate inside is sticking, or the play in the throttle plate/linkage is too great, ...I think that COULD be an issue, along with the variables that I've posted above.
YES, indeed, the Idle Air Control Valve is as I described in that written out in quotes above a few posts. It has a bimetalic valve of it's own, as well as a heater, and from what I've read, it pretty much solely controls the idle up function during 'cold starts'. I repeat, MY ENGINE HAS NEVER idled up, that I remember. It always ran so well, to be honest....I never even gave it two thoughts. I also never had searched this deeply into the motor...so it's no wonder I didn't pay attention.
The FPR?...Yeah, I'll check it out. It's around 100$ if it's bad, so no where near the damage of the IACV, which is 195$ at Kragen, no core. An 87 is coming in today to Japanese Truck Dismantlers(good guys, more than most around here), but he's not sure yet if it's EFI or not. BIG difference in regards to my needs/possible needs I should say. I'm also going to need to replace my Temp Gauge and Oil Pressure gauge, so I'll grab that too while there if it's available.
I'm going to call him now and see what he has. I'll get back over here when I can to read and clarify...whatever, hahaha. THANKS, really guys,
Mark
Sure, ANYTHINGGGGGGGGG helps, trust me. It keeps me thinking and eliminating and 'doing the math', so to speak on trying to narrow things down.
The Throttle body is VERY clean. Flecker and I removed it to adjust the TPS, ....but we didn't DOUBLE CHECK the stop screw before doing so. That could be an issue, but mine seem so much diff than the 'usual symptoms' as they relate to the TPS. HOWEVER, IFFFF the plate inside is sticking, or the play in the throttle plate/linkage is too great, ...I think that COULD be an issue, along with the variables that I've posted above.
YES, indeed, the Idle Air Control Valve is as I described in that written out in quotes above a few posts. It has a bimetalic valve of it's own, as well as a heater, and from what I've read, it pretty much solely controls the idle up function during 'cold starts'. I repeat, MY ENGINE HAS NEVER idled up, that I remember. It always ran so well, to be honest....I never even gave it two thoughts. I also never had searched this deeply into the motor...so it's no wonder I didn't pay attention.
The FPR?...Yeah, I'll check it out. It's around 100$ if it's bad, so no where near the damage of the IACV, which is 195$ at Kragen, no core. An 87 is coming in today to Japanese Truck Dismantlers(good guys, more than most around here), but he's not sure yet if it's EFI or not. BIG difference in regards to my needs/possible needs I should say. I'm also going to need to replace my Temp Gauge and Oil Pressure gauge, so I'll grab that too while there if it's available.
I'm going to call him now and see what he has. I'll get back over here when I can to read and clarify...whatever, hahaha. THANKS, really guys,
Mark
06-18-2010, 12:43 PM
#200
Registered User
Check this site as well...
http://car-part.com/
Maybe the wiring is shot to the ACV??? Possible, sure, likely, maybe, hmmmmm
I'd hate to see you get a FPR if that's not it...try pick n pulls first off. Sorry my parts truck is a 3.0 not a 22re. Other wise I'd have some parts for you to try.
http://car-part.com/
Maybe the wiring is shot to the ACV??? Possible, sure, likely, maybe, hmmmmm
I'd hate to see you get a FPR if that's not it...try pick n pulls first off. Sorry my parts truck is a 3.0 not a 22re. Other wise I'd have some parts for you to try.
