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I've been fiddling with this thing all day and right now I'm full of self doubt as well as frustration so this post is a little unorganized as my thoughts are all over the place. I just finished doing a head gasket job on a 3vze motor and the bastard wont fire up. It cranks, but I cant get it to start.
Spark. Initially when I tried to crank it, it kept cranking and started to run a little at 200rpm or so and quickly died. I've tried putting the distributor in every position possible and it's still a no go. I will say that I've done ignition timing on one of these engines before, and even when it's not just right they will start. I put my timing light on the spark plug wire and noticed the light would come on intermittently. I noticed where the main spark plug wire wire connects to the distributor cap from the igniter that it had some corrosion on it in the distributor cap hole. I cleaned it out and now the timing light fires just as expected. Granted now I'm wondering if the engine is flooded, or if the ignition system can close a circuit and send enough current to trigger the timing light but it lacks a strong enough spark to start. Though my counter thought to this is that if you dont have enough current/voltage to create a spark then you wont be able to trigger the timing light as it wont complete the circuit. So if the timing light is going on then you must be getting adequate spark since compressed air is a high resistance "material" for current to flow through. Either way I'm getting a new cap tomorrow and throwing it on tomorrow.
Fuel. I can smell fuel coming out the tail pipe. It's not as strong as you'd think but i can still smell it a little bit nontheless, so I'm also wondering if I'm possibly not getting enough fuel. I'm just hoping that this isnt it, because I dont have the proper tools to test the fuel pressure and getting to the injectors is a bitch. I sprayed some starter fluid into the intake, and it still wouldnt start or even give the slightest bit of sign that it's a fuel issue with a hiccup or two.
Timing. It's a single cam over head design. I had the crank timing pulley right on the notch, same thing with the cam pulleys. All the pulleys were aligned to their perspective marks on the block/heads and the marks on the timing belt lined up perfectly as well. I checked this about 7 times before pulling that tensioned pin. I know with DOHC engines you can sometimes be 180 degrees out of phase. This cant be the case with SOHC engines as far as I know, but someone correct me because again I'm doubting myself right now and my head isn't clear. On the belt I had the L-cam mark on the drivers side cam, the R-cam mark on the passenger side cam, and the crank mark when on the crank pulley just as expected around the 5-6 o clock area. At this point I installed the distributor with all the marks lined up.
Air. All new gaskets, all surfaces were cleaned very well. All new vacuum tubes. I left the AFM bolted to the car and it wasnt touched. It was working fine before so I dont see a reason it would suddenly fail given that it wasnt shocked/dropped or anything like that.
Electric. We all know old wires are brittle. I'm praying that having to bend the wiring harness in ways that it hasn't been bent to in years didn't damage something in there. I will say that I am wondering if maybe the coolant temp sensor isn't sending the ECU good values and thats where my issue lies. I'm trying to start the engine in low 40s weather. All the grounds were hooked up, everything is plugged in. I even installed new grounds from the engine to the body and body to battery.
As far as the heads go, I had them fully rebuilt and machined. Block flatness was checked, new OEM headgasket & bolts. Everything has been tightened to toyota OEM spec.
If your timing light flashes, you have spark. Yeah, there is a tiny difference depending on the current delivered by the coil, but it won't keep the engine from starting.
You didn't mention the whole purpose of the timing light: where do you see the timing mark? You also didn't mention "re-stabbing" the distributor. If you're off by one tooth, which is not too difficult to do, your timing will be off by about 28°. (Enough to keep it from firing.) Don't just pull it out and put it back over and over; follow the manual carefully and it will work. Also, remember that you can have the ignition timing off by 180° and the timing mark will show up in the "right" place. Just look for the rotor to be near the #1 distributor contact at TDC.
Test the compression. A compression gauge is not expensive (and you should have one anyway). If you're off on the valve timing it will show up in compression. More importantly, the major goofs in a head gasket job (like bad sealing) will also show up that way.
It's not that complicated; you need fuel, air, compression, and spark. Check the compression with a gauge. Use your timing light to see that the ignition timing is "close." Use a tiny spritz of starting fluid to rule out fuel pressure/injector issues.
On your distributor since you have restabbed it, I would go back and make sure that it is correctly installed per FSM. Engine at top dead with all marks lining up on crank and cam gear pullies. Marks on distributor should line up with mark on gear and housing then when inserting mark on housing to mark on camshaft bearing retainer.
I got the new distributor cap, and redid the distributor as well. I loosened the #1 plug(passanger side, first one) turned the engine until it was on compression stroke. I verified this by hearing it hiss. Set it to TDC using the timing cover as shown in the picture below. Lined up the gears to the distributor and inserted in making sure the marking on the distributor matched to the one on the head. Granted once the teeth started to engage the rotor started turning clock wise. In the last picture you can see the two marks I made. Those two dots line up when the distributor and rotor are lined up, once the distributor is inserted the rotor shifts to the right a little bit. As far as I know this is normal. I've also got a video of me cranking it. I'm thinking at this point we can rule out spark?
Quick question, did you tighten the bolt that the spring tensioner for the timing belt rides on? When I did my first motor, I thought the spring was enough to pull the tensioner and the bolt through it had to be just around finger tight to let it adjust. I was sorely wrong. The belt slipped like a MF and my timing was all over the place but I had the exact same symptoms as you. Fired up and ran like ass for a minute then died then a cranking no start.
Hi:
You seemed to have ruled out spark, and timing.
Spray some starting fluid down its throat, and see if it spits and coughs when it is cranking.
This may sound not related, but when you removed the air cleaner top (contains the AFM), how did you take off the plug?
If you took out the two little screws that hold the plug on, the that was the incorrect way.
You have broken a couple of delicate wires connected to the delicate internal gonads of the AFM, and you are unaware of this.
Putting the plug back on hides this fact, and you will crank till the cows come home with no joy.
Good luck.
Art.
Update: I havn't gotten it running, but I decided to check timing just to be safe. Timing is right on the money. Now to put it back together and move on to the next thing. At this point I'm thinking it has to be something with the electronics that is either preventing it from starting all together or throwing off the air/fuel ratio.. Maybe coolant temp sensor? AFM? What else would prevent the truck from starting up that I should check? Previously while cranking the engine I did try varying the throttle but that didnt help.
Did you check compression? (If you have a valve stuck open it won't start. Not too likely, but a compression check is an easy thing to check off.)
Did you try a tiny spritz of starting fluid? Compression, spark (at the right time) and a little bit of fuel is all you need. If it starts (or at least coughs, as Zartt describes) that suggests a fuel delivery problem.
Even though you don't have a fuel pressure tester (hint:
) there's a handful of things to first check in that area. Jumper FP to B+ in the diagnostic connector; with key-on it forces the fuel pump to run (you should be able to hear it). If your rig starts now, you have a problem in the VAF-COR circuit. Replace the fuel-return line from the FPR with a hose (1/4"/6mm clear vinyl) to a suitable container. There's no spec, but I get about 0.5 liter/min with the fuel pump running on the jumper.
Electrical problems could cause a no-start, but they have to be fairly major (your computer just isn't that smart). Like broken wires to the injectors. The starting fluid test is the first test there.
Okay, just to give you guys an update. First I wanted to say I do appreciate everyone's input even though I'm not directly responding to you guys. I''ve been very frustrated and havn't been able to think with a clear head. I'm doing this as a favor to a friend and it's taken up my garage for months. It's a small garage for a sedan so I had to take all my tools out prior to starting this and theres tools all over the floor. It's a ˟˟˟˟ show of claustrophobia. Today I got it back together, sprayed some started fluid directly into the intake and it kinda sorta ran at about 200 rpm for a bit, filled the garage with smoke and died. This is a good sign, as neither the ignition timing nor the idle screw have been adjusted. So like it has been mentioned, it's a fuel issue after all. The truck had done this before as well, except my dumbass didn't think that the started fluid that I had sprayed was the cause of it. I was able to smell fuel prior to all this coming out the exhaust when cranking it without a start so I made the assumption I was getting fuel. Especially since I had verified the fuel pump was working. I took the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator and (dont laugh) sucked on it to see if I could hear/feel the diaphragm move. I'm not sure if this is an authentic test, but one I did nontheless in the middle of a saturday night since I couldnt really go any further. It was holding vacuum so I'm thinking it's most likely good. I did also verify I had a good ground from various sensors/ECU to the battery as well as voltage just to be safe.
Tomorrow I will take one of the banjo bolts off and see if I can find a bolt locally with the correct thread and will make a spare banjo bolt, drill it all the way through and weld a piece of brake line to it and use that as my adapter to test the fuel pressure.
Bear in mind, it's not just pressure, but also volume that matters.
IF your pressure is good, and most use the Cold Start Injector fuel line for a pressure reading, as it's right there, top center, and easy to get to, you can easily get a volume reading from the Pressure Regulator, at the rear of the fuel rail. Pull the return line, and put a clear piece of tubing on it. Put that into a graduated container, and short the Fp and B+ connections in the test connector to make the fuel pump run. I don't see a standard, but I've read in the forums that 0.5 quarts per minute is adequate flow rate. That might well be 0.5 pints, I'm not certain. If it's low, you have a partly clogged filter, fuel line, or the intake to the pump in the tank. If one of those is partly clogged, you can get good pressure, but the volume will be too low for the truck to run properly.
Most pressure gauge kits, like from Harbor Freight, or wherever, come with an adaptor banjo bolt. You shouldn't need to make your own.
Remember though, you'll need fresh crush washers for every time you loosen, or remove, any of the banjo bolts. They are not, NOT, reusable. Any time you even loosen the connection that uses them, you MUST replace them.
There are two crush washers on the CSI, one top, one bottom. You can get them cheap from the dealership, no problem. Get a bunch. No matter how careful you are, the ONE that you absolutely must have to put everything back together will jump out of your hand as you're trying to install it, fall under the truck, and vanish. It happens to everyone. Be ready, and have several for each connection you may work on. If you don't prepare in advance for the work, you'll regret it. Any connection you don't have them for, because you don't think you'll work on it, will be THE connection that is the whole problem.
Merry Christmas everyone! Update time. So I did go to harbor freight and get a fuel pressure tester. Jumped the Fp to B+ and I got 42PSI. So that checked out. Disconnected the return line and was getting a steady flow. I got about 0.9 pint in 1 minute, close to what people on the forums agree should be right. The only thing that failed is that once I disconnected the jumper the fuel pressure dropped pretty quickly and did not hold above the 20PSI or so the FSM specs. I do want to note a couple of things. I connected the fuel pressure gauge on the drivers side fuel rail closest to the radiator. All those aluminum crush washers for the banjo bolts on the line fuel rail I had reused with some extra mighty tighty\ so that they wont leak. I cant smell gas so I'm not sure if they are leaking or not. The ones on the drivers side that are visible are not leaking.. Now the most interesting part is that since I connected the fuel pressure gauge the truck starts right up every single time and runs pretty damn good! I have no explanation for this and dont see how an over tightened banjo bolt would cause this. Either way my next step is to go to the dealer, order a bunch of new washers, remove the plenum and replace all the washers, torque the banjo bolts to spec, and see if it will still start right up.
If you pulled the FPR connection to attach the pressure gauge, and suddenly things work better, it could be a small clog was there, and when you opened the system, it fell out without you noticing it.
Just a thought.
When you get the crush washers, get extras of all of them. If you don't, the ONE you need will jump out of your hand as you go to install it, fall under the truck, and vanish. Those crush washers are not only malicious, they're sneaky as well.
You've been warned!
I'm back to square one. I was trying to start the truck today to move it and it wont start. It will crank and hiccup a little before giving up completely. Pretty much what it was doing before. Havnt gotten the crush washers yet so everything is untouched as it was when the truck was running. As a matter of fact I drove this thing several times yesterday and it drove pretty well. At this point I'm wondering if it's the coolant temp sensor? Yesterday the weather was in the mid/high 40s, today it's 32. Last time it didnt start it was in the 30s as well. I'm going to take the plenum off and measure the resistance of the sensor and also throw it in the freezer and recheck it. I'm thinking about just ordering a new sensor and connector anyway just to be safe and to rule it out. I guess what I need is Toyota OEM Water Temperature Sensor (For E.F.I.) 89422-20010. I know as far as toyota is concerned the sensors have specific colors. The aftermarket stuff is kind of all over the place in regards to the color of the sensor though they claim to be compatible with that number. I'm hoping if I color match it will be 1) the correct sensor and not a incorrectly listed item 2) it will be OEM. I know beck/arnley tends to repackage oem stuff.
I had similar issues and struggled for a long time.
turned out to be the FPR.
the oem one has a bypass valve and was by passing fuel that should have been going to the fuel rail, but instead was going back to the tank.
I think one of the symptoms is that overnight the fuel system drains and in the morning you can hear the fuel pump trying to catch up and take longer cranking for start up.
This was an intermittent problem I
chased for nearly 2 years.
If i remember correctly, I clamped some vice grips on that return line and it ran fine was how I finally figured out what was happening.
I'll throw an update out for you guys. Truck is now good and running, what was the problem? Not quite sure. I ended up replacing all the fuel injector connectors, coolant temp sensor, coolant temp sensor connector and the ignitor connector. I didnt feel like going in and out multiple times so I shotguned it. Most of these connectors were replaced because they appeared questionable to begin with, but I originally left it alone since the truck was running fine. Clearly something was unhappy about getting unplugged and wiggled.
12-07-2020, 10:56 PM
