texturboII

Chaser Johndoe, I believe you are the winnah!

First thing I did was check the AFM per the FSM again, now that the symptoms have manifested themselves again:

With AFM on the car:

VS-E2: 308 - G
VC-E2: 268 - G
THA - E2: 1.58 - This doesn't fit into any of the ranges for the temps given...NG
FC-E1: Infinity - G

With AFM off of car:

E1-FC fully closed: infinity - G
E1-FC any other position: not zero...NG
E2-VS fully closed: 358 - G
E2-VS fully open: varies, but with several dead spots along the way. Not a good wave...NG

So it looks like I've found the culprit. I'll be trying to get a replacement today.

texturboII

No good. Swapped a known good AFM in and now it isn't starting at all when hot, starts hard when cold. Continuing to inspect other sensors.

texturboII

When I pulled the AFM, I could smell the gas from the intake tube. It's burning through gas and when it does start it coughs up black smoke. Rich rich rich... TPS or FPR? Jeebus I don't any to have to check the ECT again, that was a pain.

superex87

Time for new injectors I think. running rich is too much fuel, sounds like a injector is sometimes getting stuck open when you shut it off...

texturboII

Yea, it seems to get everything it needs. I know it's got good compression, spark and it's getting a lot of fuel, lol. It'll be a couple of days before I can pull off the intake and run a leak-down test on the rails... Ugh.

texturboII

This is turning into a bit of a blog, lol.

So, after thinking about what's happening, what's been said and what I've done I don't think I even need to do a leak-down test. I'm pretty sure after following through the leaky injector idea given to me by a couple of you that the problem is there.

When I removed a bunch of lines from the passenger side to get access to the #1 spark plug (I think it's #1, the one way in the back.) I removed the return fuel line without even knowing it. Good thing the car was cool ! However, thinking back when I pulled that line nothing came out. No pressure!

I can deduce that the FPR isn't leaking it, I pulled the vac line and there wasn't any gas there. It probably isn't the Dampener because I don't smell gas when it's running (except from the exhaust) and I'm not leaking fuel in the engine bay thank god. So it's gotta be the injectors. I've ordered a set of Flamethrowers and should get them in this week. Me thinks I'll spend Wednesday pulling the intake plenum, and swapping the flamethrowers in. While I'm there I'll double check the ECT and may even put a new Dampener in just for solidarity.

The 8 Gaskets that the FSM refers to for the fuel rails, those are just crush washers I believe? Anybody know what size off-hand? I hesitate to reuse the old ones given I'm doing all this to stop a most-likely leak, lol.

Thanks a lot for the help guys, I will update with results Wednesday hopefully.

scope103

I've never found the crush washers (fuel line gaskets) anywhere but the dealer, but they're cheaper than dirt even there. (about a buck each) Consider getting an extra two of each size you need; you don't want to be tempted to reuse a pair if you tighten a connection and decide you need to re-do it. Be sure to use a torque wrench; with the crush washers it will "snug up" almost two whole turns before reaching torque.

Do your new injectors include the o-ring and gasket set (probably)?

On many rigs of this vintage (e.g., mine) the injector connectors are quite brittle. I have zip ties on a few of mine. You might think of using a hair dryer to gently warm them before you pull them from the injector. If you break the latch you can go with a zip tie, or there are sources that sell them with pigtails already on.

Last, it's a Fuel Pressure Damper, not dampener. It damps the pulsation of the injectors slamming shut; it's not making anything "damp." Alas, a very common mispronunciation.

texturboII

Haha, yes Fuel Pressure Damper. You know "damp" is one of those weird English words...

Yea, I'm pretty sure the injectors include new o-rings, gaskets, pigtails and even an intake gasket. Score!

Thanks for the heads up about the gaskets, I'll swing by the dealer in the morning before I get dirty.

black toy

i fell your pain man ive been working on mine for 2 years finley got her going my best advise is check fule prussure if good replace fillter if nothing after this your fun begines owm out all injectors should be somewher around 13 clean fule rails a must .mine had two totley pluged injectors on drivers side bank you couldnt even see into the fule rails gas thies days hope this helps. youl start to like the litle 3.0 evntuley thats when you know you have the sickness

texturboII

Yep.

I called around to the dealers in the area, it seems no one has stock on those gaskets. At least not enough to compile a full set. So I ordered them from toyotapart.com and I will hopefully be getting them in by Saturday.

InToxicOne

Well if you have to floor it to get it to start that sounds like too much fuel is hitting your start up and youre having to start in flood mode. Basically after 70% throttle the engine doesnt spray fuel into its start up cycle. Might be a leaking injector. That might also tell you why you have no pressure in the rail when you start it.

PS if you cant find the gaskets for the fuel rail and misc parts you might consider just getting a full upper end gasket kit. Might come with a cyl head gasket but these old Toyotas are known for killing them so no harm in having spares.

texturboII

Hmm, that's interesting. I knew some cars had systems like that but wasn't sure about the 4runners. As a stop-gap I've contemplating installing a switch to the fuel pump relay. I've done this before on my RX-7s to prevent flooding. Basically, kill the fuel pump and crank it until it pushes out any excess gas and then turn the pump on. I guess the 70% cut-off you mentioned functions like this.

The internet age has made me be short-tempered and have high-expectations. Looks like the gaskets aren't getting in until Monday or Tuesday of next week... The injectors are here, and the Cold-Start Injector will be here Saturday. I'll at least swap that one out.

InToxicOne

Most Toyotas of that age have the vane air flow meter. The fuel is actually controlled by a little contact switch that is inside the meter. Basically as the engine pulls vacuum the needle moves taking pressure off of the little contact strip and allows it to connect. Its an odd little setup but effective none the less. The injectors however wont fire until the signal is sent from the ingnigtor assembly or wherever the signal is sent from so keeping the fuel from getting to them may not affect it unless they were stuck open. The best way to test them to see if they've stuck open is to use a long screwdriver and place the metal end on the injector body(not the connector) and listen for it to click. If no click is heard that most likely means the injector is gummed up and not opening/closing correctly.

InToxicOne

Also before I forget the other way to test the injector is to pull the rail off and leave it plugged in. Now hold a rag or a container to catch the fuel. Open up the little cover over your afm. You will see a little contact switch to the right of the assembly inside(if you look at the afm with the connector facing away from you). Put the ignition to run but do not start it. Take pressure off the little contact in the afm and listen for the fuel pump to run. Dont spin the dial to do this just use your finger to pull pressure off. Now check to see if any of your injectors are leaking fuel out. Replace them as needed.

texturboII

That's great info right there, thanks. I'm a bit hesitant on the idea of opening up the AFM, considering a new one costs like $200+ dollars. I'd be more comfortable if I saw exactly what you're talking about, I'll look that up though. I planned on pulling the rail off and just jumping the test connector to run the fuel pump. As far as the screwdriver idea, you just turn the key to on and touch it the injector body w/ a screwdriver and listen for a click or not? Hmmmm... Worth a shot for confirmation, however I've already bought everything to swap them all out. I'm committed, lol. But it would be nice to have some peace of mind before taking the intake off. Thanks!

InToxicOne

With the engine running is the screwdriver test. If you run the fuel pump then jumper each of the injectors with 12Vdc you should get them to open then close individually. The AFM is pretty tough to ruin. http://www.celica-gts.com/users/oldm.../AFM-Guts1.jpg. If you look on the left hand side there's a little arm that's holding back that little contact. Once you're done a good visual to make sure no moisture is in there then just seal it up with RTV.

texturboII

I'll give it a shot.

texturboII

FINALLY got all the parts in. I'll start tearing into it today... woot!

texturboII

Well, I went to fix it and broke it some more, lol. Looks like a vac line busted off of this sensor here.



The nipple on the bottom busted off, and subsequently the top one when I went to remove it as well.

Anybody have an idea as to what sensor that is?

InToxicOne

well if its a 3 port thing on the back of the upper intake manifold that would be your vacuum switching valve. Sorry pic was broke for me.