When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
How's it going Yotatech! Needing some input on where to start searching for a no crank issue on a 22re swap. The truck is originally an 87 22r that I rebuilt the motor in and while rebuilding the motor I swapped out the entire harness from an 86 4 runner. I used the same ECU from the 4 runner for the RE swap. After purchasing the harness for the swap I realized to late (it was shipped to me) that it clearly had an issue with intermittent start issue as it has the ford starter relay that was sent with the harness.
I decided to use the Ford inline fuel pump and kept my stock 22r tank. I was able to wire in the fuel pump to the original harness (blue wire) and when I turn the key to crank the motor the pump turns on. For the ground I just have it ground to the chassis. If their is a better place to ground the fuel pump please let me know!
Now that I've given a little run down on how the truck is currently setup I'll get more into the issue. I have everything hooked up correctly from what I can tell. But for some reason I'm still not getting any cranking of the motor, the starter doesn't even seem to be engaging at all. To see if I was getting volts to the crank wire that comes out from under the intake, I hooked up a multimeter and had someone turn the key to check for any voltage at the crank wire. After trying it a few different times, even with the clutch start cancel pins jumped their was no voltage to the crank wire.
I also have a dark green wire with a black stripe that comes out from under the intake that isn't plugged in and the plug is missing. Can anyone ID this wire for me? Maybe something related to the AFM? I don't think it's the 4x4 light wire as I have a lighter colored green/black wire with a plug.
Please if anyone can help I'd greatly appreciate it!
Check for STA signal at the ignition switch, connection N2 (body to engine harness), and the coldstart injector. Somewhere between those you will find something wrong..
BR-B brown black wire could be E2, a primary ground for the ECU and sensors. Put your multimeter into continuity test mode and clip one of the leads to the unknown wire. Now take the other lead to the ECU plug. When you get a tone from the meter you can lookup the wires function on the ECU pin map..
Check for STA signal at the ignition switch, connection N2 (body to engine harness), and the coldstart injector. Somewhere between those you will find something wrong..
BR-B brown black wire could be E2, a primary ground for the ECU and sensors. Put your multimeter into continuity test mode and clip one of the leads to the unknown wire. Now take the other lead to the ECU plug. When you get a tone from the meter you can lookup the wires function on the ECU pin map..
I'm not the best with wiring and understanding it so I'll do my best. One thing I did forget to mention is that when turning the key and trying to crank the motor, I am getting a nice click from to COR and one of the black wires does have constant 12v.
Where exactly would I check for the STA signal at the ignition switch? Any info on what wire or maybe the color? For the Coldstart injector, am I just checking to see if I have 12v to the positive side of the pins?
Using that picture it looks to be multiple E2 ground wires going into the ECU. How do I go about testing to make sure the ground wires are grounding properly.
If you need any pictures of anything I have setup, please let me know!
If I jump the starter straight to battery my starter turns over. Like mentioned before I can't seem to get any signal the the crank wire that runs from the harness under the intake. Or is the green wire with a black line the signal wire?
Last edited by GreyYota87; 02-18-2020 at 01:03 AM.
Did you get a complete set of 22re harnesses, or just the engine harness?
Look at the schematic, just above the starter you can see the branch where the dash harness connects the ignition switch to the coldstart relay and the starter's solenoid. This is the STA(start) signal wire.
On the RE harness this is connector N2 pin7, on the R harness this is connector C2 pin1.
Did you get a complete set of 22re harnesses, or just the engine harness?
Look at the schematic, just above the starter you can see the branch where the dash harness connects the ignition switch to the coldstart relay and the starter's solenoid. This is the STA(start) signal wire.
On the RE harness this is connector N2 pin7, on the R harness this is connector C2 pin1.
I have the complete harness from the donor truck. Engine harness and in cab harness. I'll go hunt down those plugs and look for N2 and check pin7.
I wired my starter straight to battery and I was able to get it to turn over. So I know my starter is functioning properly...just gotta figure out why I'm not getting any signal to my starter signal wire.
I'm pretty sure I have to correct plug here in my hand. I checked both sides of the plug on pin 7 and neither have any voltage. Just to make sure (I tried both ways) should their be voltage with the key on, or only when trying to crank the motor over? I'll also post a picture to verify that I'm working with the correct plug and at the right location. Some of the other pins did have voltage with the key in the "on" position. One was a purple wire, a brown wire, a grey wire, and possibly one more.
I'm pretty sure I have to correct plug here in my hand. I checked both sides of the plug on pin 7 and neither have any voltage. Just to make sure (I tried both ways) should their be voltage with the key on, or only when trying to crank the motor over? I'll also post a picture to verify that I'm working with the correct plug and at the right location. Some of the other pins did have voltage with the key in the "on" position. One was a purple wire, a brown wire, a grey wire, and possibly one more.
Looks like the correct plug from here. You should have power to the body side from the ignition switch when it's in the start position (ST1, closed) this same wire provides power to the COR.
let me scroll back to the schematic and I'll brb..
...
here we can see abit more of the interconnected parts. You can see ST1 connects to both the COR and Starter relays. You did say your COR is functional, this leads me to think your starter relay isn't functioning. Having a Ford starter solenoid wired in doesn't mean the Toyota relay is optional, so test the Toyota starter relay is getting power from ST1 and is operating.
It's also maybe worth double.checking you didn't hook the oil pressure switch (dummy light) to the starter since its the only other wire that comes to mind that might reach the starter off that harness.
Looks like the correct plug from here. You should have power to the body side from the ignition switch when it's in the start position (ST1, closed) this same wire provides power to the COR.
let me scroll back to the schematic and I'll brb..
...
here we can see abit more of the interconnected parts. You can see ST1 connects to both the COR and Starter relays. You did say your COR is functional, this leads me to think your starter relay isn't functioning. Having a Ford starter solenoid wired in doesn't mean the Toyota relay is optional, so test the Toyota starter relay is getting power from ST1 and is operating.
It's also maybe worth double.checking you didn't hook the oil pressure switch (dummy light) to the starter since its the only other wire that comes to mind that might reach the starter off that harness.
Ok I was under the impression that the ford relay basically bypassed the toyota solenoid because of known issues.
I checked voltage at pin 4 on the starter relay and I'm getting voltage when turning the key to crank. The toyota relay doesn't click or do anything though. Could this be the reason why I'm not getting power to the signal wire? How can I test that the starter relay is working or not?
For the oil pressure light, it's hooked up correctly since it has the SR5 oil pressure sending unit.
Soooo close to just wiring in a push start button and calling it good lol.
So it turns out the person that sold me the harness had issues with it. Mentioned something in the ignition area of the truck. I'm trying to work around that just to see if the truck will even start. So tonight I tried starting the truck with no luck. I hooked up everything like it was factory and ready to start. The only thing I changed was jumping the starter straight to battery. I had the key in the "on" position and the motor just cranked when the start was connected to positive on the battery. I checked to see if I was getting spark and I am. It doesn't sound like the fuel injectors are firing off though. Am I missing something else or what?
The truck has all the smog stuff/air injection deleted as well. I'm not worried about smog, I just want it to start lol.
Don't mean to post so much, just been working on this truck and a rebuild for a year and this is the only issue keeping me from starting it up!
Ok I was under the impression that the ford relay basically bypassed the toyota solenoid because of known issues.
You're not actually bypassing the solenoid of the starter with whatever they did to your wiring with that Ford part, because your starter solenoid is integral to the starter..
It works like this, briefly, you energize the solenoid. The solenoid, which is a linear actuator, pushes on the RAM that pushes the gear of the starter out and makes it engage the teeth on the flywheel. A secondary effect also happens when it does this, it closes the high current contacts that make the motor spin.. In an old school Ford you have an external solenoid and a single high current wire to the starter. When this single wire is energized it activates a separate solenoid which pushes out the starter gear as it spins the starter motor... (You can see why this is redundant and why we moved away from this design?)
Keep in mind you haven't given any details about how your system is wired and I can only imagine how someone might have hooked it up, also I'm honestly ignoring the non factory bits.
I checked voltage at pin 4 on the starter relay and I'm getting voltage when turning the key to crank.
1: good this means they didn't cut the relay wires.
2: we already knew you "should" have power here when the key is in start position because the COR works.
The toyota relay doesn't click or do anything though. Could this be the reason why I'm not getting power to the signal wire? How can I test that the starter relay is working or not?
Refer to the diagram above. You have a switch and a coil inside a relay.. When the coil is energized the switch closes. So take the relay out and figure out which pins have continuity always and which are the switch. Now apply power and ground to the pins that are conductive and check that the relay closes the switch. If it clicks it's not a bad relay..
For the oil pressure light, it's hooked up correctly since it has the SR5 oil pressure sending unit.
So if you check resistance or continuity between the starters energize connector and pin7 of the engine side of N2 it's good?
(Pretty sure the answer here is going to be no because of whatever that Ford part is wired to but its a question that needs answered.)
Soooo close to just wiring in a push start button and calling it good lol.
If you do this wrong it will start to fail just like the original ignition switch...
Originally Posted by GreyYota87
So it turns out the person that sold me the harness had issues with it. Mentioned something in the ignition area of the truck. I'm trying to work around that just to see if the truck will even start. So tonight I tried starting the truck with no luck. I hooked up everything like it was factory and ready to start. The only thing I changed was jumping the starter straight to battery.
Not to be Debby downer, but I highly doubt this because I'm pretty sure you still have that wire from the picture above dangling. ;-)
I had the key in the "on" position and the motor just cranked when the start was connected to positive on the battery. I checked to see if I was getting spark and I am. It doesn't sound like the fuel injectors are firing off though. Am I missing something else or what?
Did you listen to the injectors with your stethoscope, or are you guessing based on voodoo.. Test don't guess!
You don't have a reliable fuel source unless the COR is energized. Also the ECU, ignitor, and cold start injector rely on the STA signal..
Did you check to see if the "button" on the fuel damper was extended.. On the front of your fuel rail is a device called the fuel damper, it's primary function is to smooth the fuel pressure when the injectors open and close but a side effect of this (which we use as a quick easy test to see if the fuel pump is running) is there is a small screw that will rise up off the dampers body.
...
The fact your starter doesn't spin with the key in the start position isn't "the only thing stopping you from getting the engine running", you just proved this by hot wiring the starter when you had the engine spinning and it didn't start.. Right?
So once you've verified the starter relay is good the next step is to check the safety system of the clutch pedal safety switch.
You do this by checking that one of the pins in the starter relay socket switches between open and closed (ground on pin #1 switches open/closed) when the pedal is pushed to the floor and released.
So now you should have power to the relay with the key in start, and ground to the relay with the clutch pressed. This means if you don't have power to that pin7 of NE2 some ones cut the wire somewhere between the relay and the NE2.
You're not actually bypassing the solenoid of the starter with whatever they did to your wiring with that Ford part, because your starter solenoid is integral to the starter..
It works like this, briefly, you energize the solenoid. The solenoid, which is a linear actuator, pushes on the RAM that pushes the gear of the starter out and makes it engage the teeth on the flywheel. A secondary effect also happens when it does this, it closes the high current contacts that make the motor spin.. In an old school Ford you have an external solenoid and a single high current wire to the starter. When this single wire is energized it activates a separate solenoid which pushes out the starter gear as it spins the starter motor... (You can see why this is redundant and why we moved away from this design?)
Keep in mind you haven't given any details about how your system is wired and I can only imagine how someone might have hooked it up, also I'm honestly ignoring the non factory bits.
1: good this means they didn't cut the relay wires.
2: we already knew you "should" have power here when the key is in start position because the COR works.
Refer to the diagram above. You have a switch and a coil inside a relay.. When the coil is energized the switch closes. So take the relay out and figure out which pins have continuity always and which are the switch. Now apply power and ground to the pins that are conductive and check that the relay closes the switch. If it clicks it's not a bad relay..
So if you check resistance or continuity between the starters energize connector and pin7 of the engine side of N2 it's good?
(Pretty sure the answer here is going to be no because of whatever that Ford part is wired to but its a question that needs answered.)
If you do this wrong it will start to fail just like the original ignition switch...
Not to be Debby downer, but I highly doubt this because I'm pretty sure you still have that wire from the picture above dangling. ;-)
Did you listen to the injectors with your stethoscope, or are you guessing based on voodoo.. Test don't guess!
You don't have a reliable fuel source unless the COR is energized. Also the ECU, ignitor, and cold start injector rely on the STA signal..
Did you check to see if the "button" on the fuel damper was extended.. On the front of your fuel rail is a device called the fuel damper, it's primary function is to smooth the fuel pressure when the injectors open and close but a side effect of this (which we use as a quick easy test to see if the fuel pump is running) is there is a small screw that will rise up off the dampers body.
...
The fact your starter doesn't spin with the key in the start position isn't "the only thing stopping you from getting the engine running", you just proved this by hot wiring the starter when you had the engine spinning and it didn't start.. Right?
Using that diagram and assuming the pinout is of the ECU and not the actual plug, that it is the HAC. If that is looking at the plug then it would be the Throttle position sensor, but nothing looks to be missing from that.
I didn't test the injectors with a stethoscope but I can. The injectors weren't actually clicking when trying to turn the motor over. The only way I got them to click is when I put 12v to the original signal wire that was supposed to go to the starter.
I have my inline fuel pump tied into the original fuel pump wire so that it will turn on like the stock pump.
I haven't checked for continuity or resistance between the starter relay energize connector and pin 7. I thought I was just checking to see if pin 7 had voltage when turning the key. I will check this tomorrow morning and get back with the results on it.
So once you've verified the starter relay is good the next step is to check the safety system of the clutch pedal safety switch.
You do this by checking that one of the pins in the starter relay socket switches between open and closed (ground on pin #1 switches open/closed) when the pedal is pushed to the floor and released.
So now you should have power to the relay with the key in start, and ground to the relay with the clutch pressed. This means if you don't have power to that pin7 of NE2 some ones cut the wire somewhere between the relay and the NE2.
I'll check the starter relay in the morning. I was told that if you can't feel or hear the starter relay clicking when you turn the key to crank it, that the relay isn't working. I'm guessing I was informed with wrong information lol.
The clutch start cancel button was removed from the truck before I got it, but the new harness has the plug for the switch. To take care of this I jumped the two wires together. And correct, I have no power to pin 7 of NE2. Is it best to run a new wire to this or try and hunt down the area the wire is damaged and try to fix it?
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding all of this....I'm better at building motors and turning wrenches not fixing electrical issues....I'm learning though! lol.
I feel like I'm getting somewhere, but at the same time it's like I'm still at square 1...I have voltage coming from pin4 on the starter relay plug, so I know the relay is getting power when needed. I took the relay off and found the two pins that were conductive when touching with the test probes. I hooked up one to power, and one to ground and the relay clicked like it should. It sounds like the plug is providing the voltage needed when cranking, but for some reason the relay won't function properly when hooked up to the harness.
I'm assuming that since my starter relay is not functioning and closing the circuit that is why I'm getting no voltage at pin7. I have continuity between pin 4 on the starter relay plug, and pin 7 on the N2 plug. But i'm lacking the voltage when trying to crank the motor. Here is how I wired the relay in order to test to see if the circuit would open and close. Works as it should when tested like this.
Last edited by GreyYota87; 02-18-2020 at 11:41 PM.
I'm probably missing something simple.. Like power to relay pin 3 (this is the power in for the coil), or make sure you are back probing (meter leads inserted into the back of the plug along side the wire) and that N2 is connected to its mate..
Key in STArt, starter disconnected..
Battery voltage at starter relay pin 4&3?
Clutch in, ground on relay pin 1?
Voltage out to starter on pin 2?
I'm probably missing something simple.. Like power to relay pin 3 (this is the power in for the coil), or make sure you are back probing (meter leads inserted into the back of the plug along side the wire) and that N2 is connected to its mate..
Key in STArt, starter disconnected..
Battery voltage at starter relay pin 4&3?
Clutch in, ground on relay pin 1?
Voltage out to starter on pin 2?
Think you can ignore the HAC switch.
Ah it sounds like I missed something! I was testing the relay plug on the harness side with the relay unplugged. I was also only checking to see if pin 4 was getting voltage and not pin 3. I will have to check pin 1 and pin 2 as well. Pin 1 should always be grounded because I have those two wires jumped since I do not have the button.
When you say back probing, is that leaving everything plugs in and testing through the casing/back of the pins....sounds like with my limited knowledge I was doing it wrong. and while testing the N2 plug....I was checking for volts with it unplugged as well. Will redo all the testing and get back to you!
So I was finally able to get around to testing everything like you mentioned. Pins 1,3,4 all get 12v when the key is turned to start with the starter disconnected. When testing pin 2 I am getting no voltage. I also tested Pin7 on the N2 plug with it mated to the common plug and I have no voltage their with the key in the "start" position. COR is still clicking and fuel pump runs until I release the key back to the "on" position.
I assume the relay is fine since when hooked up direct to power via pins 3&4 the relay energizes and clicks like it should. But I'm also confused that when power from the harness on pins 3&4 don't energize the relay even with showing 12v.
I'd like to say again that I appreciate all of your help!
Last edited by GreyYota87; 02-19-2020 at 04:42 PM.
02-17-2020, 10:22 PM
