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22RE owners - how many miles for your oil changes?
My '93 truck with a 22re has over 320,000 miles on it. It has seen 10w-30 conventional for every oil change except for once or twice when repair shops used a blend after draining for other work. I had always ran an OCI (oil change interval) of 4-5k miles along with whatever the standard filters are used by oil change shops. Last time the valve cover was off, the engine only had varnish, but was otherwise spotless in terms of sludge. The last OCI was 4,000 miles and there was little/no apparent loss of oil during that time.
I recently dumped in some 10w-40 Mobil Full Synthetic High Mileage oil in there with a yzzd1 Denso filter. Would any of you think twice about going to 5-7k miles OCI with this setup? What's funny is that Toyota says these engines can go 7k on conventional, and that being the quality of oil back in 1993, and today's oils are much better across the board.
Now that my truck isn't my only vehicle, it will get used less often. I think hitting 7K in a year will be far less likely than it was in the past where I would do far more than 7K by commuting 2 hours in a work day. I am a little worried about leaving the oil in more than 6 months, mostly due to the yzzd1 filter being cellulose natural fibers and not a full synthetic fiber media.
I might also consider going to a Fram Ultra oil filter in place of the Denso, as it has full synthetic media that is dual layered and has a mesh backing and silicone anti drain back valve, AND easy grip coating! Ironically, the Fram Ultra is the best oil filter on the market right now, considering their poor reputation for their low-end models. LOL That way I could extend my oil changes to 9+ months if the miles don't add up first. I could also keep the same filter on the engine for every other OCI since the filter is rated for 20K miles, which is insane.
As far as I know, the yzzd1 is the best filter on the market today. I may well be wrong on that, though. The big one, the one that's the same size as a Fram PH-8A, fits very nicely, and IMO gives better filtration. More media for the oil to flow through, more rapidly. Gives a small amount of oil cooling too, but not real significant. Easier to grab hold of for removal/installation, too.
Personally, I use Castrol Syntec Extra 5W30 in the 4Runner, and 10W30 in the pickup. The difference being that I drive the 4Runner in the winter here in Oregon, and it can get COLD at times (0° F ). The slightly lighter weight oil flows better when the engine has sat for a day, or three, without running in the cold.
I use the Castrol due to a parade back in 1995, believe it or not. I put some in my motorcycle, and then got tapped to be in a Memorial Day Parade in Yuma, Az. It wasn't an especially hot day, only 107° F that day. The parade wasn't very well organized, and much of the time we were just sitting there. Not super good for the air cooled bikes. After a while, we got fed up and started running around each other and our float, trying to keep the bikes cool. The crowd loved it, and the announcer said we'd practiced for weeks ahead of time. We'd never MET one another before that day, but hey, it sure sounded good. We were just trying to keep the bikes cooled down!
Anywho, I got the bike home finally, and pulled the little dipstick out to check the oil. I was sure it was gong to burnt badly. Nope! No sign of any difference from the oil new out of the bottle. No difference in smell, none in the feel of it, from what my fat fingers could tell.
I've used Castrol Syntec ever since. I use an OIC of 4-5K miles in my trucks, but I'd feel comfortable going 10K with no trouble.
All that is just anecdotal, of course. Take it for what it's worth.
Pat☺
The Yzzd1 and yzzd3 filters are by far great filters! But, they are not intended for extended use in miles or time, mostly because of the organic media used in them, which can break down over time. I don't know if it is an issue in real-world practice, but for a couple bucks more, the Fram would be good peace of mind. The synthetic filters don't break down over time and are more limited by how clogged they get with miles. If the truck goes for 12 months without an oil and filter change, I would want something longer lasting in there. The Fram Ultra also uses a dual-ply media, which I believe helps to lessen any flow restricting effect caused by the higher filtration rates of sub-30 micron particles. I'm also not sure if the yzzd1 and d3 filters use a silicone or nitrile drainback valve. The silicone ones last WAY longer than the others, and the drainback valve is pretty critical in reducing the time it takes for oil to circulated into the engine on cold starts.
But, yes, for normal use, the Denso filters are probably the best due to the higher flow rate and OEM spec on the pressure release valve. I have 3 more left from a bulk order that I will go through before switching to the Fram Ultra.
I used the 90915-YZZD3 filter (same for FJ and 4Runner that way) and Castrol 20W50 high-mileage version (mostly), with I believe is a synthetic blend. Because this truck sees low use (<2k miles/year), changes are more time based, but not past 5k miles.
Probably the only way to know for sure is to send samples into Blackstone for used oil analysis. I might try this at 5K miles and see how the Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 is holding up. I think it's like $20-30 or so, which would be worth it to figure out if doing extended OCI would save me money on a truck that will be used less each year.
I generally use Castrol and change whenever it starts to look dark, probably 2500 miles. I don’t really worry about getting the most miles between changes. I enjoy working on my truck.😁
I know this is a can of worms but from my limited understanding, full synthetic oil can be a little troublesome for older motors that arent used to it. So it depends on your motors history, to a certain degree, which oil it will take. Sounds like yours has been rebuilt somewhat recently or been well taken care of for a long time?
I use pennzoil hi mileage blend 10w30. My motors have not been taken care of by previous owners so I try to change oil every 3k miles. I also pour a little seafoam down the crankcase a week before oil changes, to clean and keep me from procrastinating.
Ive always steered clear of Fram filters but sounds like a lot of you have good experience with them? Ill add it to the list of things Ive been wrong about.
I know this is a can of worms but from my limited understanding, full synthetic oil can be a little troublesome for older motors that arent used to it. So it depends on your motors history, to a certain degree, which oil it will take. Sounds like yours has been rebuilt somewhat recently or been well taken care of for a long time?
I use pennzoil hi mileage blend 10w30. My motors have not been taken care of by previous owners so I try to change oil every 3k miles. I also pour a little seafoam down the crankcase a week before oil changes, to clean and keep me from procrastinating.
Ive always steered clear of Fram filters but sounds like a lot of you have good experience with them? Ill add it to the list of things Ive been wrong about.
the distinction is the fram ultra filter vs the regular orange fram filter (which is poor quality). so, you aren’t wrong. a LOT of people avoid the fram orange filters.
I use rotella T6, simply for zinc content. Very few oils contain zinc these days but was a common additive decades ago, which is important for valve train, but have read that it is only important in the 1st couple oil changes.
As for filters wix, napa gold, or yota, usually available no matter where I live. I've heard good things about fram ultra guard but been a topic of interest for decades as these questions always come up. Tons of youtube dissections. Over the years the quality has fluctuated which is common for loads of products.
These are always interesting post. and interesting to see how things change over the years.
afaik, the zinc component in motor oil was important for flat-tappet engines.
i do like wix filters, and used them for decades. ran my 2.2L subaru on them up to 300K (when it rusted out); never used any other filter on that engine. same for wife's corolla (276K before it rusted out). and several prior rigs. but for my 4runners, i've exclusively run the yzzd1, over 100K on #1, and about 10K on #3.
as far as the oil, i'm less picky. mostly choose via price, and change at intervals around 3500 to 4500 miles. no interest in running 10K between changes (but i'm not buying the expensive synthetic oil, either). i've put well over 1 million miles on my vehicles since 1984. only one catastrophic engine failure. most of the rest were rust issues for the body/frame of the vehicle, not engine problems.
afaik, the zinc component in motor oil was important for flat-tappet engines.
i do like wix filters, and used them for decades. ran my 2.2L subaru on them up to 300K (when it rusted out); never used any other filter on that engine. same for wife's corolla (276K before it rusted out). and several prior rigs. but for my 4runners, i've exclusively run the yzzd1, over 100K on #1, and about 10K on #3.
as far as the oil, i'm less picky. mostly choose via price, and change at intervals around 3500 to 4500 miles. no interest in running 10K between changes (but i'm not buying the expensive synthetic oil, either). i've put well over 1 million miles on my vehicles since 1984. only one catastrophic engine failure. most of the rest were rust issues for the body/frame of the vehicle, not engine problems.
Our valve train is a tappet style, as it is incorporated in SOHC design. But really shooters choice. reliable oil and frequent changes with a good filter are arguably more important than additive packages of oil.
Wife's VW TDI has increased oil change intervals which I'm a little leery of but... old dogs and such. and a picky oil too boot.
I think I remember reading that engine oil is actually less effective when brand new in the engine vs. when it has some miles on it. That changing the oil TOO often is actually worse than changing it at a more sensible number of miles. Of course the term "worse" could mean it is less effective by 0.0001% or something, being technically "worse" but not in any meaningful way. I don't know.
It's also been very well documented and determined that the 22RE isn't hard on oil unless you drive it off-road mostly and get a lot of dust particles coming into the air filter. I think the factory oil change interval was as follows:
- Light use = 7,500 miles on conventional
- Moderate use = 5,000 miles
- Severe use = 3,000 miles
If your rig is used for off-roading on weekends and doesn't add up many miles on the highway, then 3,000 mile changes is probably pretty good idea. If you drive the rig to work on the highway, and take it into the bush for some whacking a few times a month, then 3-5,000 miles might be good. If the rig is used on the highway the vast majority of the time and only sees the nasty stuff a couple times a year, then maybe 5-7,000+ miles? That's just based on Toyota service intervals on old-school conventional oil, let alone modern conventional ( which a few are actually synth blends labeled as conventional). There isn't any legitimate reason full synthetic couldn't push those numbers out, or do a better job going by the same numbers.
Full synthetic seems like it can usually last at least twice the miles of conventional, even with sludge prone engines, which the 22RE is not one of.
I think my main point of concern is just the time the oil and filter are in the engine. I guess either I just don't worry about changing the oil less often, or I just start doing used oil analysis and cutting open the used filters to see is they are getting warped, clogged, or torn in any way.
I'm the original owner of our 1993 Yota and after the break-in period of about 500 miles, I've used synthetic oils since day one Amsoil up until my dealer just retired.
It's one of the better articles I've read on how the different characteristics of oil make a difference.
Thanks for the link!
To be clear though, the article is about aircraft engines which only run at low RPMs and use leaded gas and have all sorts of oil contamination issues not usually found as bad in vehicle engines. The guy who wrote the article even explains as much about how aircraft engines have vastly different requirements.
For automobile engines, synthetic oil has been around for long enough that it is pretty well proven that synthetic is better in every way, unless of course your old engine has failing seals and the synthetic oil causes them to leak after switching from conventional. Even then, going to high mileage full synth oil can mitigate that seeping effect on worn seals.
I'm the original owner of our 1993 Yota and after the break-in period of about 500 miles, I've used synthetic oils since day one Amsoil up until my dealer just retired.
To be fair, 160,000 miles IS THE BREAK-IN PERIOD FOR THESE ENGINES. LOL
Mine is running better now at over 300K than it did at 160K.
To be clear though, the article is about aircraft engines which only run at low RPMs and use leaded gas and have all sorts of oil contamination issues not usually found as bad in vehicle engines. The guy who wrote the article even explains as much about how aircraft engines have vastly different requirements.
For automobile engines, synthetic oil has been around for long enough that it is pretty well proven that synthetic is better in every way, unless of course your old engine has failing seals and the synthetic oil causes them to leak after switching from conventional. Even then, going to high mileage full synth oil can mitigate that seeping effect on worn seals.
No question that there are differences between the engines and their needs, but the nature of the oil is the nature of the oil. And on RPMs, we generally cruise most aircraft engines around 2500RPM, and that's close to what I'm running on the highway on my 22RE.
What's particularly interesting in the article is the nature of branches on conventional oil, and how it traps contaminants vs. synthetic which does not have those branches to trap contaminants. It's an important difference. FWIW, on aircraft we change oil between 25 and 50 hours of operation, with the bulk of that operation around 2500RPM. This is with conventional oils and where engines are precious.
I agree that synthetic is generally a win for most all automotive cases, at least the water-cooled gasoline-fired ones. My 33yo 22RE doesn't experience any seal issues and I'm running a synthetic blend for many years now.
That study Consumer Reports published in July 1996 using 20 New York taxis was interesting. it was one of the most comprehensive we had seen up to that point. still very readable to this day
That said, I've found that customers who used whatever shop had the best deal on oil changes, and were constantly using different brands of oils, had the most issues with oil consumption. Those who stayed pretty loyal to a specific brand always seemed to fare better.
That study Consumer Reports published in July 1996 using 20 New York taxis was interesting. it was one of the most comprehensive we had seen up to that point. still very readable to this day
That said, I've found that customers who used whatever shop had the best deal on oil changes, and were constantly using different brands of oils, had the most issues with oil consumption. Those who stayed pretty loyal to a specific brand always seemed to fare better.
That's correlation, but not necessarily causation. I'd expect those who are consistent to a brand are likely more consistent in their oil changes and maintenance in general because they expressed that they actually care what kind of oil goes into their vehicle. Those who don't care what kind of oil goes in, likely don't care about a lot of other things.
A girlfriend years ago had a late 70's Civic that routinely left oil stains under the engine. I asked her if she checked her oil to make sure the level was okay. She said, "the light will come on when it needs more".
12-18-2020, 09:48 AM
Ironically, the Fram Ultra is the best oil filter on the market right now, considering their poor reputation for their low-end models. LOL That way I could extend my oil changes to 9+ months if the miles don't add up first. I could also keep the same filter on the engine for every other OCI since the filter is rated for 20K miles, which is insane.
