1989 (?) Constant overheating!!!
03-22-2014, 08:54 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1989 (?) Constant overheating!!!
Reviving a dead thread!!!
So my buddy has a 3.0 on his 1989(?) pickup. I went over there to help diagnose an overheating problem. He just had a new thermostat installed, and I just got done flushing the radiator, taking off hoses to check for clogs, etc. The coolant was fresh and green, as the oil was black and oily. No white smoke out of the tailpipe. So I ruled out a blown headgasket. Even after the flush and insepection yesterday, its still overheating. I was going to take out the thermostat and reassemble the housing to see if maybe he got a bad thermostat? However I did not have a deep enough socket with me to get the last bolt. So im going over today to help finish the job. However if it turns out NOT to be a faulty thermostat, what else can I look for? I heard someone saying to take the radiator cap off, start it and check to see if the coolant is circulating (water pump still functioning). Ill check that today. As for burping the system, you just let it run with the cap off and front end elevated, right? The radiator has no cool spots, so im assuming there is no clog. However, when he first started noticing it overheat, the tube on the overflow resevoir would leak a good ammount of coolant right around operating temps. Him knowing nothing about cars, proceeded to by radiator stop leak for the following 3-4 weeks. When he realized his leak hadnt stopped (not knowing where it was even coming from) he parked the truck and left it.
What in the world is causing this thing to continuously overheat?!?
So my buddy has a 3.0 on his 1989(?) pickup. I went over there to help diagnose an overheating problem. He just had a new thermostat installed, and I just got done flushing the radiator, taking off hoses to check for clogs, etc. The coolant was fresh and green, as the oil was black and oily. No white smoke out of the tailpipe. So I ruled out a blown headgasket. Even after the flush and insepection yesterday, its still overheating. I was going to take out the thermostat and reassemble the housing to see if maybe he got a bad thermostat? However I did not have a deep enough socket with me to get the last bolt. So im going over today to help finish the job. However if it turns out NOT to be a faulty thermostat, what else can I look for? I heard someone saying to take the radiator cap off, start it and check to see if the coolant is circulating (water pump still functioning). Ill check that today. As for burping the system, you just let it run with the cap off and front end elevated, right? The radiator has no cool spots, so im assuming there is no clog. However, when he first started noticing it overheat, the tube on the overflow resevoir would leak a good ammount of coolant right around operating temps. Him knowing nothing about cars, proceeded to by radiator stop leak for the following 3-4 weeks. When he realized his leak hadnt stopped (not knowing where it was even coming from) he parked the truck and left it.
What in the world is causing this thing to continuously overheat?!?
03-22-2014, 09:05 AM
#2
Is the truck actually overheating or just the gauge is showing higher? It might have something to do with him putting stop-leak in it. To get all the air out, turn the heater on hot and rev the engine with the radiator cap off until all the air is out.
03-22-2014, 09:05 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pennsylvania, East
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My thoughts are this. The stop leak usually has some kind of coagulant in it and will gum things up, which is why I don't think one should use it in any application (coolant or otherwise).
For a coolant flush, what I have done is drain the coolant at the radiator. Refill with water. Run engine with radiator cap off and keep the water topped off. When the thermostat opens you will see the water turn green or red when the coolant that was in the engine is dumped into the radiator. Turn off the car. Drain the radiator again. Refill with water and continue doing this until the coolant, crud, stop leak is all out.
Remove the radiator and hose that sucker down. Flush it with water for a while. If you do get all of the green coolant out you may want to try red coolant from toyota or Zerex Aisian red coolant (napa has it). Red has a different chemical constituency and will protect against stuff that green won't.
Is your oil cooler clogged?
For a coolant flush, what I have done is drain the coolant at the radiator. Refill with water. Run engine with radiator cap off and keep the water topped off. When the thermostat opens you will see the water turn green or red when the coolant that was in the engine is dumped into the radiator. Turn off the car. Drain the radiator again. Refill with water and continue doing this until the coolant, crud, stop leak is all out.
Remove the radiator and hose that sucker down. Flush it with water for a while. If you do get all of the green coolant out you may want to try red coolant from toyota or Zerex Aisian red coolant (napa has it). Red has a different chemical constituency and will protect against stuff that green won't.
Is your oil cooler clogged?
03-22-2014, 09:12 AM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When i was about to drain the radiator on the last flush, I pulled the bottom.hose off the radiator, because his petcock wouldnt open... and the water that came out of the bottom hose was almost as cold as it was going in when I filled it up with the hose. While the water IN the radiator was hotter than hell when I opened the cap. Does that mean the thermostat isnt opening? Water flows through the top of the radiator out through the bottom just fine. Nice constant flow, no cool spots on the radiator, so I dont think it is clogged.
03-22-2014, 09:19 AM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the oil cooler I have noooo idea. This is a buddies truck, just trying to help him out. I just find it odd that the water in the bottom hose came out cold after it started to overheat.
03-22-2014, 02:03 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm having overheating problems on my '86 22re 4Runner too. Not to hijack your thread, but it seemed stupid to make a new one and maybe we can help each other out.
I can't drive 2 blocks without it burying the temp gauge needle in the red. And it is actually getting hot, not a bad gauge. I've replaced the thermostat (with 4crawler's 2-stage option), rad cap, radiator hoses, and fan clutch. Still overheating. While running warm, top radiator hose is hot, lower hose is cold. With the cap off, I can't see the coolant flowing. Water pump pulley is visibly moving... There is a slight whining noise, but nothing horrible. The water pump is a cheapo, but is new as of August 2013. Radiator is cool. I removed the radiator and water flows freely through it.
The question is, this is a water pump or radiator issue at this point, right?
I can't drive 2 blocks without it burying the temp gauge needle in the red. And it is actually getting hot, not a bad gauge. I've replaced the thermostat (with 4crawler's 2-stage option), rad cap, radiator hoses, and fan clutch. Still overheating. While running warm, top radiator hose is hot, lower hose is cold. With the cap off, I can't see the coolant flowing. Water pump pulley is visibly moving... There is a slight whining noise, but nothing horrible. The water pump is a cheapo, but is new as of August 2013. Radiator is cool. I removed the radiator and water flows freely through it.
The question is, this is a water pump or radiator issue at this point, right?
Last edited by Cdsbigsby; 03-22-2014 at 02:09 PM.
03-22-2014, 02:38 PM
#7
Remove the upper radiator hose at the radiator (with only water in the system) keep a garden hose on low filling the radiator. Once the thermostat opens you should have flow out of the hose. Flow should increase with rpm. Water will be hot so don't spray yourself. Be careful not to suck the radiator dry also.
Edit. Obviously with the engine running.
Edit. Obviously with the engine running.
Trending Topics
03-22-2014, 03:09 PM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just got back from his house. Yesterday being the first time he had the car on in almost 3 months, while it was idling was heard a small clunk every now and then and then it eventually went away. Today I go over, Pull the thermostat and remount the thermostat housing, now completely eliminating the thermostat from the engine. Not 3-4 minuted into idle, and a rather high pitched, grinding squeal starts up and the water in the top of the radiator is NOT moving one bit. I kill the engine and small amounts of smoke begin tricking up behind the cam gear cover (the plastic cover that surrounds the cam gears). The pulley for the water pump is turning just fine, but that noise, the smoke AND no water/coolant movement in the radiator tell me its the water pump. It HAS to be, right? The radiator has smooth flow of water from the top port to the bottom port when I put the hose into the top, the thermostat was mounted correctly and working well, and there are zero clogged hoses.
So the terrible grinding noise, no water movement in the radiator and small traces of smoke HAS to be signs of bad bearings/turbine of the water pump. What else CAN it be?
So the terrible grinding noise, no water movement in the radiator and small traces of smoke HAS to be signs of bad bearings/turbine of the water pump. What else CAN it be?
Last edited by evan1395; 03-22-2014 at 03:13 PM.
03-22-2014, 05:09 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pennsylvania, East
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just got back from his house. Yesterday being the first time he had the car on in almost 3 months, while it was idling was heard a small clunk every now and then and then it eventually went away. Today I go over, Pull the thermostat and remount the thermostat housing, now completely eliminating the thermostat from the engine. Not 3-4 minuted into idle, and a rather high pitched, grinding squeal starts up and the water in the top of the radiator is NOT moving one bit. I kill the engine and small amounts of smoke begin tricking up behind the cam gear cover (the plastic cover that surrounds the cam gears). The pulley for the water pump is turning just fine, but that noise, the smoke AND no water/coolant movement in the radiator tell me its the water pump. It HAS to be, right? The radiator has smooth flow of water from the top port to the bottom port when I put the hose into the top, the thermostat was mounted correctly and working well, and there are zero clogged hoses.
So the terrible grinding noise, no water movement in the radiator and small traces of smoke HAS to be signs of bad bearings/turbine of the water pump. What else CAN it be?
So the terrible grinding noise, no water movement in the radiator and small traces of smoke HAS to be signs of bad bearings/turbine of the water pump. What else CAN it be?
I would do the timing belt with OEM parts. For the water pump that would be Aisin brand, about $60 on ebay. If you do the timing belt and all the associated parts you will be able to look into the engine coolant ports and see whats going on (lime deposits?, rust?, goop?). Could be that a channel somewhere is blocked.
03-22-2014, 10:12 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would Aisin Brand be the BEST replacement part for the toyota?
What would the grinding bearing sound be? Im not being a smart*** by any means man, but what would the timing setup have to do with that sound and the overheating?
What would the grinding bearing sound be? Im not being a smart*** by any means man, but what would the timing setup have to do with that sound and the overheating?
03-23-2014, 08:57 AM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pennsylvania, East
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aisin is, asfaik, the OEM water pump. I don't think Toyota made it but rather Aisin and many people claim they will last for 100K plus miles (or significantly more). The toyota OEM timing belt also has some convenient marks on it for lining everything up that some other belts don't.
The grinding bearing sound could be a number of things but there are like maybe 4 or 5 things that would be replaced (or could be) during the timing belt change that do have bearings. The main idler bearing, the NSK bearing (forget its name), water pump of course, then you have the fan housing bearing too (which wouldn't be normally replaced but hey, could be the issue).
You could, right now, open up the hood of the truck and see if that fan spins ok. The rest of the stuff will need to be disassembled.
Here is my thread with some good links and a few pictures: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...roject-278865/.
All of the toyota or OEM parts for the job can be had for between 300-350 new off of ebay. I could sell you a few used OEM parts if you wanted. I took them off of my truck because I was doing the timing belt just because (no issue present). I didn't know when the previous owner did it so as far as I know the parts are ok. Or you can find the OEM part numbers on that page I linked to. Just ebay search for the part number and you will see what you need.
If something was not working well in the timing belt system then efficiency goes down and that could mean cooling ability. So a lower efficiency water pump for instance and maybe just normal crust and sludge that built up in the cooling system over time, together could be causing the overheating. No way to know really, its just a theory.
The grinding bearing sound could be a number of things but there are like maybe 4 or 5 things that would be replaced (or could be) during the timing belt change that do have bearings. The main idler bearing, the NSK bearing (forget its name), water pump of course, then you have the fan housing bearing too (which wouldn't be normally replaced but hey, could be the issue).
You could, right now, open up the hood of the truck and see if that fan spins ok. The rest of the stuff will need to be disassembled.
Here is my thread with some good links and a few pictures: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...roject-278865/.
All of the toyota or OEM parts for the job can be had for between 300-350 new off of ebay. I could sell you a few used OEM parts if you wanted. I took them off of my truck because I was doing the timing belt just because (no issue present). I didn't know when the previous owner did it so as far as I know the parts are ok. Or you can find the OEM part numbers on that page I linked to. Just ebay search for the part number and you will see what you need.
If something was not working well in the timing belt system then efficiency goes down and that could mean cooling ability. So a lower efficiency water pump for instance and maybe just normal crust and sludge that built up in the cooling system over time, together could be causing the overheating. No way to know really, its just a theory.
03-23-2014, 10:42 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately this guy is on a serious budget. His mom had just passed away, his wife has just left him, and he has been walking 4 miles to work and back everyday.
At this point I'm just trying to get his car going so it doesn't overheat on his way to work. For now I may just be doing a water pump and pray that that was the problem. The water pump is the farthest bottom pulley, correct?
At this point I'm just trying to get his car going so it doesn't overheat on his way to work. For now I may just be doing a water pump and pray that that was the problem. The water pump is the farthest bottom pulley, correct?
03-23-2014, 02:40 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Honestly, both from opinion and past experience, i wouldnt skimp on the water pump if at all possible (i pulled that stunt with a cheapo when i was 15 working on a 3vze and i was right back in it doing it again a few weeks later). 14 years later i still try not to skimp on things because I dont want double work or it failing on someone sooner than later.Maybe float your buddy the price difference of the better water pump for a bit?
If i read what you posted correctly, my theory is that yes the bearings are hanging up on the water pump (I have had such happen, with no leaking water from the weep hole) and it's trying to bind, thus causing the smoking from that area (I presume it's heating up his timing belt?..)
Cdsbigsby, from what you post, I really believe you either have some absurd blockage, or a head gasket problem. You don't see water flowing and I take it you're not getting pressure buildup/combustion pressure from the cooling system when you remove the radiator cap are you?
Do any of you guys do as I do during a thermostat replacement and flush a ton of water from the top port or hose (with thermostat removed, just a quick flush) and watch it all pour out the bottom?
If i read what you posted correctly, my theory is that yes the bearings are hanging up on the water pump (I have had such happen, with no leaking water from the weep hole) and it's trying to bind, thus causing the smoking from that area (I presume it's heating up his timing belt?..)
Cdsbigsby, from what you post, I really believe you either have some absurd blockage, or a head gasket problem. You don't see water flowing and I take it you're not getting pressure buildup/combustion pressure from the cooling system when you remove the radiator cap are you?
Do any of you guys do as I do during a thermostat replacement and flush a ton of water from the top port or hose (with thermostat removed, just a quick flush) and watch it all pour out the bottom?
03-23-2014, 02:50 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Honestly, both from opinion and past experience, i wouldnt skimp on the water pump if at all possible (i pulled that stunt with a cheapo when i was 15 working on a 3vze and i was right back in it doing it again a few weeks later). 14 years later i still try not to skimp on things because I dont want double work or it failing on someone sooner than later.Maybe float your buddy the price difference of the better water pump for a bit?
If i read what you posted correctly, my theory is that yes the bearings are hanging up on the water pump (I have had such happen, with no leaking water from the weep hole) and it's trying to bind, thus causing the smoking from that area (I presume it's heating up his timing belt?..)
Cdsbigsby, from what you post, I really believe you either have some absurd blockage, or a head gasket problem. You don't see water flowing and I take it you're not getting pressure buildup/combustion pressure from the cooling system when you remove the radiator cap are you?
Do any of you guys do as I do during a thermostat replacement and flush a ton of water from the top port or hose (with thermostat removed, just a quick flush) and watch it all pour out the bottom?
If i read what you posted correctly, my theory is that yes the bearings are hanging up on the water pump (I have had such happen, with no leaking water from the weep hole) and it's trying to bind, thus causing the smoking from that area (I presume it's heating up his timing belt?..)
Cdsbigsby, from what you post, I really believe you either have some absurd blockage, or a head gasket problem. You don't see water flowing and I take it you're not getting pressure buildup/combustion pressure from the cooling system when you remove the radiator cap are you?
Do any of you guys do as I do during a thermostat replacement and flush a ton of water from the top port or hose (with thermostat removed, just a quick flush) and watch it all pour out the bottom?
This is my first time working on a Yota 3.0, so all I do is remove fan shroud, radiator and fan? What all holds the fan onto the pulley?
03-23-2014, 03:37 PM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And yes....I checked the flow of the radiator after I disconnected both hoses. The radiator seems fine and clog free. Its staying hot all along the top with no cool spots. Im thinking, with all the stop leak he put through this thing, it probably REALLY added some resistance to the water pump turbine and made it poop out.
03-23-2014, 05:49 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pennsylvania, East
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go here and check some of the links which will describe how to do the water pump. https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...roject-278865/
The circular gasket you got goes to the thermostat. The water pump bolts (there are 8) get tightened down to 14 ft/lb of torque. Mine came with a nice gasket but I used some Permatex gasket sealant in addition for added security. My gasket was metal with rubber so hopefully yours isn't something crummy like fel pro.
If you have an oil cooler in the truck, I recommend looking at it. It is a great place for stuff to end up like rust and scale that blocks the coolant flow.
The circular gasket you got goes to the thermostat. The water pump bolts (there are 8) get tightened down to 14 ft/lb of torque. Mine came with a nice gasket but I used some Permatex gasket sealant in addition for added security. My gasket was metal with rubber so hopefully yours isn't something crummy like fel pro.
If you have an oil cooler in the truck, I recommend looking at it. It is a great place for stuff to end up like rust and scale that blocks the coolant flow.
03-23-2014, 06:30 PM
#20
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok cool. Now as for the water pump, just unfasten the 8 bolts, pull the old one off and put the new one on with the new gasket and some high temp RTV? Whats all this talk about the valve cover needing to be removed in that write up?
