I took my truck Hilda out last night for its first longish trip (about 3-4 hours total, mostly highway), and realized that it's not the right vehicle for me. I used to daily-drive sports sedans/wagons, and got fed up with their incompetence and fragility on bad roads, so I swung the pendulum in the opposite direction... and ended up with a noisy, bouncy, slow, and thirsty solid-axle Yota. Its capabilities are well beyond my needs, and the compromises it makes for those capabilities are meaningful drawbacks 95% of the time.

I realized a few other things too. First, the best daily drivers I've owned have been 2wd trucks - tall enough to get over a curb or a log or really bad road, low enough to be reasonable for road use; crude enough to be durable, but not so much as to be uncomfortable. Second, there's another 4wd truck here that sits almost as low as a 2wd, and it is a far better road vehicle than Hilda, while being every bit as capable in those off/bad road situations that I actually encounter. In off-road situations like rock crawling, there'd be no contest, but I don't do that. I just want a 4wd daily driver.

I also want a Toyota for its mechanicals, and a first-gen for its styling (yes, it's irrational, and yes, it's important). This other truck is a Mitsubishi that as a piece of machinery is significantly inferior. But it gets 32mpg going 65, I don't have to climb up into the cab, it doesn't feel tippy at all, and still goes up a muddy logging road when I need it to. If it were a Toyota, I think that's where the pendulum would stop swinging.

Here's my half-baked scheme, not happening anytime soon: find a longbed 2nd or 3rd gen 4wd chassis, put Hilda's cab on it... and here's where it gets blasphemous for this "your off-road adventure begins here" site... swap the rear axle to a 2wd spring-under type, crank down the torsion bars for minimum ride height, and run basically largeish car tires (say, nothing more than 28" AT's).

I'm just looking for opinions and advice from a bigger-picture perspective. And if anyone wants a recently-painted, rust-free first-gen longbed frame with axles... well, don't hold your breath, but that's what I'll be getting rid of ifnwhen I do the "low-riding IFS swap" above.

Also one specific question: is a 3rd gen chassis meaningfully better than a 2nd in any way? It has to be a longbed and I would prefer not to modify a V6 frame to fit a 4-cylinder. I know the 22RE/4wd/long-wheelbase combination is hard to find in a 3rd gen, but is it worth the effort?

 

I prefer the ride of an 89-95 two wheel over the 84-88 two wheel. They seem to ride better in my opinion. A two wheel can get in the 28-30 mile per gallon range (maybe better). I too prefer the lower truck just for the reason of having to climb up into them. I like the looks of lifted trucks just not on mine.

Talking to a salvage yard, he did tell me that even though the frames look the same, there are some dimensional differences. If you are wanting to put your cab on a newer frame, I am sure it could be done, just dont know what all would be needed.

 

I hear you. My favorite truck to date is still my 86 4x4 Xtra Cab. I've had a 78, 83, 86, 87, 92, and 94. The 86 was my favorite.

I definitely dreamed of putting my 83 body on an IFS frame. Other than "man points" and hardcore rock crawling, the only reason I can see people wanting a SFA is because of less parts, so I guess less to break. I've never done any offroading that required a SFA.

Another consideration I had: Lifting my 93 Subaru Loyale. Best would be to find an earlier wagon with 4hi and low, and lift it. And find a way to put a Toyota drivetrain in it!!

But that's serious modifications when all I really want is a smooth ride with 4wd and Toyota.

Anything IFS would fit the bill, for me.

 

Get some sleep when you wake up this nightmare will just be a fading memory!!!

Yes you could do all you want if your fabrication skills are well beyond the average.

Have good competent help when needed so it is not like a 3 stooges remake.

If you need to pay for this hope to win a Power Ball jackpot.

Pray tell what will you drive while this is being built ??

 

I looked into swapping cabs, and it seems like a fabrication project that's within my abilities. The only reason to swap cabs is to keep the interior and exterior styling of the first-gen; I find third-gen cabs boring and second-gen ugly. But maybe I could put my first-gen dash into a third?

I had an 86 2wd and though it was a beater, it was the best-balanced daily driver I ever had.

I'm going to do some research on lowering a stock IFS truck. At one point I had considered doing a SUA conversion on Hilda's front axle, but realized it's going to hit the oilpan long before it gets to 2wd ride height.

My other ride is a BMW wagon. Based on comparable projects I've done before, I would put downtime at 3-6 months.

 

In your place I would fab the first gen cab and box onto a 3rz powered chassis. You'd kill two birds with one stone since you're trying to steer away from the R series. Find a beater with a solid frame and drive train and swap bodies/lower the suspension.

The 2wd 7.5" axle is a good one, but modding a 4wd axle is still a better choice IMO. The 8" is epic and has wider application.

 

A Tacoma with Hilda's cab? Very interesting idea. But I looked into it some and there's problems: coil springs that can't be adjusted (cutting springs is a bad idea in my experience).... really, that's it, though I'm more familiar and comfortable with the pre-Taco chassis in general. The Tacoma does have a steering rack which I prefer (fewer moving parts, better on-road feel, seems durable enough for what I'm doing). I suppose I'd keep its driver-side transfer case. My neighbor has a 4-cyl 4wd extended-cab Tacoma, but from what I see they're no easier to find than a third-gen in that combination.

I thought 8" was common in 2wd axles as well? At least the V6 ones?

Having pondered it back and forth, I still lean towards an L diesel over an RZ, and I'm a couple of weeks away from pulling the trigger on a 3L already stateside.

 

As far as I know all 2wd's use the 7.5"

I'm no Toyota expert. The turbo Supra even used a 7.5"

It's a good axle, just not as good as an 8"

Too bad KD engines are cost prohibitive.

 

Well then I'd just weld on some perches to my current 4wd axle and put it above the spring. Though if I did a Tacoma chassis, I'd probably have to either use spacers (no) or an E-locker axle housing to fit my existing E-locker. Otherwise I would expect rubbing/clearance issues with the frame.

I've heard a few horror stories of KD injector longevity and cost. I'm no diesel expert, but I get the impression that common-rail is for things that are leased, rented, or otherwise on somebody else's maintenance bill; classic pump injection is for everybody else who wants their hardware to last.

(Not to go too far on a tangent, but I had a rental Volvo S60 D3 with a six-speed manual in Italy a few summers ago. Getting 45mpg while going 80 on the Autostrada with four adults and luggage is mighty impressive in my book)

 

Don't know if you're aware but many also use the 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel engines in these trucks as well.

Its just tough to find light duty diesels that are reliable. Diesels by nature are not light duty. Not one light duty can even hold a candle to a medium duty, problem with them is size and weight. ISB's and 6bt's will show up in Yotas every here and there too. I've seen ISB's done in a mid engine configuration on crawlers and such. Not super practical, lol.

 

i think it could be done. i know for a fact several members on Pirate have swapped IFS chassis under a 1st gen pickup body, but usually they're also doing a SAS. i would first do lots of homework by looking at both frame and body widths for the trucks you plan to work with. one problem i see is if you use a tacoma frame, everything underneath is slightly wider than the old Hilux pickups - not that it's a HUGE difference, but it's enough that you would have steering issues if sheet metal is in the way when you're trying to keep it as low as you want.

i think it's healthy to think outside of the box with car mods. after watching some random car shows on tv where they were splicing body parts from other cars, i've even had the blasphemous idea of getting an old Hilux pickup and figuring out how to merge it with a fwd car - like a Corolla or even better, a Prius (I know my wife's Prius is superior to my Corolla in almost every way, especially road handling, suspension comfort, and acceleration). i mean everything to me points at gas engines becoming less and less in the future, so why not try to retrofit out classics with new tech so we can still drive them?

if thinking diesel, i would personally hold out for something like a nice modern eco diesel - guessing those should start popping up at wreckers in next few years -- but everyone's sure going to snatch them up for their projects!

 

Regarding cab swaps:
Tacomas are significantly heavier and way more plasticky. The only mechanical bonus for me is the steering rack, and there are a few drawbacks as well (cost being one of them). I think that means no Tacoma.

First-gens do look better, but third-gens have less wind noise and resistance, better sound deadening, more legroom, not much more weight, still available with vent windows... and the decisive part: stock they're gray and boring, but they have a lot of flat panels (doors and dashboard) that I can replace with custom pieces to spruce things up a bit...

90% of the esthetics, 100% of the functionality, and 150% of the comfort? I think that means I'm not swapping cabs, rather switching to a complete 3rd-gen sometime in the future. I'll certainly have both trucks going together for a while, and if there's a 2RZ or 3L in Hilda it's of course going into the new ride, along with the Taco-locker and whatever other goodies.

Regarding diesels:
The problem with modern eco-diesels is that they rely on super-high injection pressure to acheive their efficiency, and those injectors are less durable and much more expensive than ye olde shim-n-spring types. Electronics are another weak point. When they replace moving parts (such as EFI vs. carbs), it's a reasonable tradeoff. When you have just as many moving parts, and expensive sensors and motors running them, it's less reasonable in my book.

It's tough to find light-duty diesels *in the US* that are reliable. VW TDI, Isuzu 4J, Perkins 4.135, and the Mercedes OM616 and 601 (and their 5- and 6-pot derivatives) are some of the many engines I've looked into for use in my truck. Since a few months ago, I decided that a Toyota 3L is close enough to perfect that the costs and hassles of a cross-breed swap are not worth it.

I looked long and hard into the OM617, nearly bought one, and have driven and worked on a few. I like that engine's feel and performance, but I'm disinclined to use it in a Toyota for a sum of minor reasons: weight, length, oilpan clearance, and the frightening cost of an internals rebuild ifnwhen it ever needs one (and let's face it, the youngest one is 30 years old by now; I know they last "forever" but...no, nothing does). Something like 7 grand for a rebuilt longblock?

Many hours of internet research has led me to the conclusion that the best small truck diesel is the Isuzu 4JB1: 2.8 liters, direct injection, one wire, available with a turbo and built to handle it, OHV and available with timing gears instead of a belt. They were made between about 86 and 95, and are reputed to be very reliable. If I were more comfortable with undocumented swaps and precision fabrication (namely, the clutch/flywheel/bellhousing stuff), that's what would be going into Hilda, or its 3rd-gen replacement.